New BG neo 10 planars

Danny Richie · « **Reply #20 on:** 21 Oct 2005, 10:32 pm »

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So would open baffle arrays skip the Neo10s, being a two way system with the XBL woofers and a new small planar magnetic driver ?

Yep, and be far less expensive than using the Neo 10's and Neo 3 pdr's with milled Aluminum chassis. It might also play a little lower even in the open baffle configuration.

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I know you've played with most if not all the ribbon tweeters on the market. Curious why you prefer the planar magnetics to them, other than their ability to cross lower ?

Good question. The Neo's have a more accurate sound to me, and I have compared them recently in very similar designs.

See speakers taken to the RMAF: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=21780

Take the hit of a symbol. The ribbon has a little better sense of air to it catching the trailing edge of the symbol. But the planar magnetic more accurately reproduces the hit of the symbol and the simmer of the surface.

Plus there is the huge advantage of taking the speed and quickness of the planar magnetic tweeter a full octave lower. This makes the comparison not even fair.

They are also really tough too. Where as the ribbons can be quite fragile.

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I have also found that putting the crossover box on an isolation platform improves the sound. In fact this is in fact part of the revIII upgrade that Carl M. is offering for my speakers, along with some tweaks to the crossover itself.

Yep, it makes it easy to upgrade the parts quality too as it is real easy to work on when it is not inside the speakers.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #21 on:** 21 Oct 2005, 10:56 pm »

Oh and JoshK, thanks for asking the questions or questioning my post. If you didn't get it then others might not have as well or might have had the same thoughts or concerns.

I hope that my responses made sense and that everyone reading it could get it.

JoshK · « **Reply #22 on:** 21 Oct 2005, 11:10 pm »

Oh teach me wise one...if they couple and play together as one (your words) then why wouldn't they beam and not have gain for wavelengths shorter than the length of the entire line, not just one unit?

Danny Richie · « **Reply #23 on:** 22 Oct 2005, 01:00 am »

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Oh teach me wise one...if they couple and play together as one (your words) then why wouldn't they beam and not have gain for wavelengths shorter than the length of the entire line, not just one unit?

I like your question again.

Both units are playing a frequency range in which they combine, but in one sense, because of the now extended line, the vertical dispersion can become more limited due to the added length.

There will be comb filtering effects if you move far enough off axis vertically in such a way as one driver is delayed in time enough to be 180 degrees out of phase with the other driver.

This is typical of all MTM designs and happens soonest in the higher frequency ranges where wavelengths are shorter. With a potential crossover point in this case being in the 1 to 1.2kHz range one would have to be pretty far off axis.

I don't know in this case if one could get far enough off axis to see this occur with these drivers. In this case there is an advantage in the use of the planar magnetic driver design.

With woofers this size the acoustic centers are further apart because the voice coil is the acoustic center. With the planar magnetic driver the whole surface is the voice coil and thus the acoustic centers are not as far apart.

JoshK · « **Reply #24 on:** 22 Oct 2005, 03:20 am »

So your agreeing with me now...

Danny Richie · « **Reply #25 on:** 22 Oct 2005, 01:59 pm »

Your original contention was that the dispersion characteristics of planar's differed from woofers, not that acoustic centers were different.

I will agree with you on this one though. Despite your questions I think you really do understand this better than I thought you did originally.

fredgarvin · « **Reply #26 on:** 22 Oct 2005, 03:27 pm »

I am intrigued as well. I have a pair of the BG z7's which have the neo 3 tweeter. Although I found the z7 itself to be too hot up top for two channel they sound good in my theater set-up. If there was attenuation for the tweeter they would be better. I found the neo3 to be better sounding overall than the ribbon tweeters I have used and echo your thoughts on cymbal impact etc. I have been a drummer for 30 years. Although a large array wouldn't work for me, a neo3 and neo 10 seems like a great idea when placed in your capable (expert) hands. And ears.

Hank · « **Reply #27 on:** 22 Oct 2005, 04:24 pm »

The opening post got me excited.

Then, I read Danny's words and my bubble was burst:

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This is not a driver that they will be releasing to any other companies

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Not likely. The other companies involved in this would not go for it. BG specifically wants close control of this one too.

Could King Kong be a future Epiphany speaker?

Then, Danny posted this:

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Okay how about an array of 6.5" woofers with XBL^ motors, designed to be used in free air (high Q compliance) in an open baffle with a new Neo 3 sized planar magnetic array along side it. Then the the tower of six 12" woofers right behind it made to look like one box with the open air area covered with grill cloth like the Alon's...

Hmmm...okay, open baffle

I'm intrigued - what about the specs of the referenced "new" Neo 3 sized planar? Danny, can you divulge anything about this upcoming Neo 3?

rgurujal · « **Reply #28 on:** 23 Oct 2005, 02:18 am »

Danny what is bgcorp going to do with these drivers. Redesign the radia, or sell them as wisdom audio speakers? Or OEM them to a couple of manufacures only? Or what else?
Ravi

Danny Richie · « **Reply #29 on:** 24 Oct 2005, 12:02 am »

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what about the specs of the referenced "new" Neo 3 sized planar? Danny, can you divulge anything about this upcoming Neo 3?

Nope. I can't give out info on that right now.

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Danny what is bgcorp going to do with these drivers. Redesign the radia, or sell them as wisdom audio speakers? Or OEM them to a couple of manufacures only? Or what else?

Right now they only plan to use them in their own products.

Hank · « **Reply #30 on:** 24 Oct 2005, 04:57 pm »

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Nope. I can't give out info on that right now.

I figured as much. What is the targeted availability date?

klh · « **Reply #31 on:** 24 Oct 2005, 06:31 pm »

Are the neo 3 PDR's being referenced any different than the ones currently on the market? If not, and they are combined with a 6.5" XBL woofer, would that be offered as a kit? If it is the regular Neo 3 PDR there would be nothing for BG to hide, so I would think it would be possible to have it in kit form unless you wanted to make it part of the line that includes the yet to be named speaker.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #32 on:** 24 Oct 2005, 07:20 pm »

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What is the targeted availability date?

Since that is not within my control, I am not going to say.

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Are the neo 3 PDR's being referenced any different than the ones currently on the market?

they won't be offered. They will be made exclusively for the design utilizing the Neo 10 version being called the Neo 1000.

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If not, and they are combined with a 6.5" XBL woofer, would that be offered as a kit?

If I use them with the open baffle 6.5" woofers then they may not be offered as a kit but as a production speaker and for it I may use standard Neo 3 pdr's.

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unless you wanted to make it part of the line that includes the yet to be named speaker.

Not likely that it will be included in the line with the still un-named open baffle speaker.

klh · « **Reply #33 on:** 24 Oct 2005, 07:40 pm »

OK

. I really like the idea of a 2-way open baffle line array with 6.5" XBL woofers and the Neo 3 PDRs, but unfortunately can't afford to pay for a production speaker. I've been thinking about doing it on my own, but I have next to no experience with crossover design and am worried it will end up being an expensive disaster.

BTW, on a completely different note, do you have any experience with the Dayton ribbon tweeter at PE? It's very reasonably priced, but I haven't heard anything about it. Since that's the case, I assume it's not very good, but thought I'd ask. A line array with them and the Dayton Reference 7" woofer would be a very inexpensive entry level line array. I wonder if it would be worth trying on my own...

Danny Richie · « **Reply #34 on:** 24 Oct 2005, 07:46 pm »

The designer of the Neo drivers from BG is the same designer that designed all the tweeters for HiVi. He told me that the Neo's from BG were quite a bit better by design and performance.

He also said that the Dayton or Silver Flute tweeters are a cheap knock off.

If you really want to do something along those lines let me know. As I am working on the design I might be inclined to pass it on to a hobbyist or two before it goes into production.

Hank · « **Reply #35 on:** 26 Oct 2005, 05:29 pm »

Danny, I might be interested, as I'm seriously considering my step-up from my current A/V-3's to be a dipole line array.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #36 on:** 26 Oct 2005, 06:13 pm »

No problem Hank.

When I get to working on them you can always come up for a listen and see if it's something you would like to build.

yithai · « **Reply #37 on:** 4 Nov 2005, 09:06 am »

Actually, I might be interested as well. I have been following this forum for over a year now. Almost purchase ALPHA LS kit, current waiting for the LS 9. I like the idea of Open Baffle, Neo 3 pdr and seperate Subwoofer. I would love to have this kit. Let's us know about the progress

Sangserm

Danny Richie · « **Reply #38 on:** 4 Nov 2005, 02:34 pm »

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I would love to have this kit. Let's us know about the progress

Will do. I'll start a new thread on it when work begins on it.

Telstar · « **Reply #39 on:** 16 Mar 2010, 12:54 pm »

I like to resurrect...

It seems that BG released (finally) an improved neo-8 (called neo 8-s)based on the technlogy used in the neo-10. Frequency response seems BETTER than the neo-10 to me.

Anybody has actually tested it? Maybe in comparison with the neo-10.