[drphoto]

About a year ago, I decided to take up the guitar. Mostly because I didn't want to just sit around at night watching the tube and letting my brain rot.

Now I still really suck as a player, but my experience has shown me two things. You really learn to hear. Now I can tell when a string is even slightly out of tune....and can even do a decent job of tuning by ear now.

The other thing is.....you really begin to appreciate the guys who do it well. You know, all that early Beatles stuff sounds really simple, but, damn. there's some pretty slick stuff there. Mark Knopfler? Just sick.

You also start to hear the difference between guitars and amps. I'm now lusting after a Vox AC30 amp.  (Beatles, U2, Queen, and my main man...Neil Finn)

Plus it's just damn fun. I play with my really great musician friends (and get completely embarrased) and my beginner friends, where I feel like a real player and it's all good.

So go out there and play.....something!!

[budyog]

Nice to see another Neil Finn fan on AC. I have been a Finn fan since about 1979, very early Split Enz. I have met both of them and also tinker with the guitar and have learned several Crowded house , Neil and Tim Finn songs. A lot of fun to play. I just got a special copy of the "Everyone is Here" by the brothers cd that also included a DVD of a few songs from this last Finn Brothers tour and some DVD audio of some unrealesed songs. And of course Neils DVD , "Sessions on 54th" Killer show and sound and the "Neil and friends" DVD. Very fun to watch!
Cheers

If you don't have the 1st Finn Brother disc call "Finn Brothers" I recommend picking it up. A good disc for audio testing. The low notes on the 1st song will test any subwoofer!

[ctviggen]

I tried to play guitar when in the military a while back.  I thought it was a great experience, as I can still tell an out of tune guitar (though not to the extent some people can).  I really enjoyed learning, although I didn't have the time to really practice and ended up selling my guitar.  I also like music theory -- it fits in with my engineering mind; it's mathematical, really, and not hard to grasp for someone with a mathematical mind.  I do think that most guitar players I like are able to feel their music.  I tend to like players like SRV and Knopfler as opposed to pure musicians like Eric Johnson.  (I can listen to Eric; I just think the music is kind of cold and distant.)

I still wish I had that guitar, but honestly I barely have time to listen to music let alone take the time to practice playing.  My fiancee though has a piano and has promised to teach me to play that.  That should be fun!  (And a test of our relationship, too!)

[ctviggen]

Speaking of playing an instrument, have you seen the study that said that people cannot be taught perfect pitch?  In other words, you either hear pitch or you don't.  Those that don't can't be taught to hear it.

[ScottMayo]

Speaking of playing an instrument, have you seen the study that said that people cannot be taught perfect pitch?  In other words, you either hear pitch or you don't.  Those that don't can't be taught to hear it.

I believe this. My wife has it; I don't.

[JoshK]

I believe it too. About both what bob said and the thread topic.

I played the trumpet for quite a number of years. I own an acoustic (doesn't every male?   ) but I haven't spent anytime learning it.  I can tune it by ear if I have a reference for one note.  

The thing is though, having a good ear for music from learning to play an instrument only loosely has anything to do with critically listening in hi-fi.  Sure you can tell pitch, tell if a system is missing some part of the register, but most any decent stereo is going to get pitch right because it is recorded as such and hi-fi doesn't change the pitch of the recording any significant amount (barring bad TT rotational speed control).

Hi-fi audiophiledom seems more concerned with soundstage, imaging, etc which have very little to do with a musical ear.  It is more similar to being able to see those 3D images that are in those posters (you know which I mean?) or not.  Not being able to see them has little to do with whether you vision is 20/20, 20/40, etc.   Same it is with hi-fi and a musical ear.  

This of course is just my opinion and will likely be contraversial. But to me what is on the recording relates more to having a musical ear and the reproduction via your hi-fi has more to do with seeing the 3D image, i.e. the psychoacoustic trickery that makes us feel a bit closer to hearing the music being played live (or so it is suppose to).

[Bingo]

Drphoto,  I can't agree more.  I, to, am a musician and I restore and repair instruments.  People that never have had the opportunity to get first-hand involvement with real music are doing themselves a great disservice.  Get to know live instruments. They will let you know that they can have multiple personalities.  They can be sweet to you, one day, and dissapointing, the next.  When you realize this, you will then see just how far off the mark "high fidelity" is and on a scale from one to ten, we have never gotten near a ten.  "Yeah, but wait till you hear MY system", is the typical response.  drphoto, isn't it funny how recordings made with AC-30's suddenly sound different to you, once you have lived with one?  The recording didn't change, your perception did.  But then again, was that a recording of an AC30T, an AC30N or an AC30B, vintage or repro?  They all sound different.  With time, your accuity grows.  When you are so familiar with a musical instrument, that you can hear it's changes, you will be ever so hard pressed to hear a playback system, regardless of magnatude, reveal those personal nuances.  On top of that, how much does one know how the recording was made and produced?  That's another arena in which few get to participate.

[mcgsxr]

Pitch vs Perfect Pitch.  As I understand it, knowing some about pitch, it is being able to determine even slight changes in tone.

Perfect Pitch on the other hand, is being able to name the notes being played, by an instrument.

ie pitch is knowing that b to b- is different, and being able to call it every time.

Perfect Pitch is hearing 1 note in isolation, and being able to name it.

This is my understanding of the terms - I played violin (a fretless and thus pitch intensive instrument) for 9 years when I was younger, (along with fretless bass, trombone etc) so I know a lot about pitch.

I do NOT have perfect pitch...!

As for how being able to isolate and determine pitch can lead to being a better listener, all I can say is that I think it can - not that any replay should actually change the pitch of a piece, but in that being able to concentrate and pick out differences in pitch and tone, can translate into hearing differences in other attributes of reproduced music.

Then again, I listen in the basement with the lights off, so feel free to flame away!

[drphoto]

mcgsxr, yep you're right about pitch. I don't have perfect pitch either. But I can now tell if a string is out and retune without having to do it relative to another note.

You know. Maybe I mispoke. I don't know if playing makes my hearing more accute, but it tends to make me a more attentive listener. I'm really digging being able listen to a song and recognize (sometimes) what chords are being played, etc. It just makes it more fun.

Hey bud, great to know there's another Finn fan. I think I have every Finn record and DVD out there. Also Neil's book that recounts his first solo tour. Did you get to see the Brothers live this winter?

[Bingo]

I guess you could say that I may have perfect pitch.  Of course somedays are better than others. Many times I have restrung an instument and tuned it by ear and then would check it with a strobe. I often end up within plus or minus one cent of standard A440.  As best as I can explain it, I sense it to a familiar sympathetic vibration with my bones.  It just feels right.
People are just wired differently.  The late, great Robert Fulton of FMI had Synethesia.  He saw colors and images when he heard sound. Many people have it but it almost ruined Robert's business when he wrote a paper about the colors of an orchestra.  He thought everyone had it and he was lucky enough to be able to use is as a reference tool along side his auditory senses for listening to equipment. Instead, people made fun of it. He was a friend and a very accomplished musician.

[jules]

Bingo,

I completetly agree. If you've played an instrument or even if you share a house with someone who plays one it's as plain as day that reproduced sound is missing a large amount of "something". This is regardless of the system [chain from mike to speakers] involved. My own view is that it's probably best to consider all reproduction sytems as tailored sampling schemes.

I see a lot written about A/B testing [a process with all sorts of flaws in it] but  the real A/B test should A,live/B, reproduced.  Of course the difference is so vast that there is no comparison.

As far as perfect pitch ... It's a relatively rare gift but even without it, training makes it possible to tune instruments and hear minute differences. Yes, it's not possible to train someone to perfect pitch but even amongst top rank musicians it's not essential.  There's also plenty of singers who are hoplessly out of tune a great deal of the time but it doesn't mean they don't have talent.

jules

[budyog]

Hey drphoto,
  The last I saw of the Finn Brothers was around August of 04 when they toured with a band. I had a ticket for the Nashville show when just the two of them went on a small US tour a few months ago but I could not make it. Always looking forward to new Finn music!