[JLM]

Hopefully everyone here is well beyond the old concept that specifications will fully predict how a piece of equipment will sound.  Some specifications can be heard, some cannot, and some don't exist to explain what can be heard.  To accept that science will always consist of questions and answers is the beginning of the truly scientific mind.

Most specifications were standardized over 40 years ago and only correlate down to values well above what any modern equipment can meet.  Other specifications can be used in a down right deceitful manner or are based on limited bandwidth, steady state, non real world conditions.  A few specifications do address synergy issues and/or directly relate to what we hear.  

I own Rotel, but have never been impressed with the sound.  Much better digital source options are out there IMO.  Dusty builds good stuff.

[guest1632]

The answer to your dilemma is in the above posts.

The D100 amps will deliver exactly what's sent to them through the signal chain: source, interconnects, preamp, interconnects. Each of those four elements is important...including the wire. An improvement made anywhere in that chain will be reflected in the sound produced by the D100 amps, and your Adcom amp for that matter. Start at the source. You can't get any more out of the system than what the source is putting in.

Hi, It seems to me, and Dusty can chime in on this, that the CI stuff has a long break in period. At least, that's what I have read in other reviews. So give the CI amp a chance, and depending on what the Rotel CD player does, it might show its weakness even more. The Adcom stuff is ok, but you have a real winner. I think if memory serves me right the breakin period is about 200 hours.

Ray

[alotaklipsch]

I always believed my system was very resolving, from the very first big-buck rig I assembled. I thought my sound couldn't be improved, but I was wrong because I didn't know what I was missing,  It wasn't until I added a modified Universal player (substitute CD player here if you wish), the Exemplar Denon 2900 that I began to realize I had never heard what my system could do. Then, when I replaced the Exemplar with an APL Denon 3910, an entirely new level of sound emerged. Incredible. Changes in wire...power ...

Tvad whasup buddy, glad you happy, keep smilin

[dhiebert]

I wanted to let folks know how my evaluation of the D-100 went after first posting that I could not hear a difference from my Adcom amp. I appreciate the advice I received from many on this topic thread.

After much careful listening, I decided to keep the D-100 monoblocks. After borrowing the Krell CD player, I found it easier to hear improvements over my Adcom amp. The differences I noted were a smoother midrange that gave a more realistic presentation of instruments like violas, cellos, brass and male vocals. For certain recordings, I did note better imaging and soundstage. These are all the very improvements which Dusty cited in his first response to my initial posting. And he was right on the money when he suggested that my CD source was not sufficiently revealing. Once I had identified these improvements, I could go back and hear them to a much reduced degree with my Rotel CD player, but they were too subtle to have noticed them at first.

Furthermore, the increased texture I could sometimes hear in midrange instruments was very engaging. The actual sound differences were subtle, but the emotional impact of that increased detail was, at times, pronounced. Late last night, while listening to the first movement of the Shostakovich String Quartet No. 7 by the Borodin Quartet, the detail I heard in the cello during the last minute of the movement was so clearly supperior that I made my decision right then and there. No more listening was needed to make my decision. At that point, I unplugged and disconnected my Adcom. All future listening will take place through my D-100s.

For some reason, I found that I could hear the differences better at night than during the morning or evening. Whether that is a psychological or physiological phenomenon I do not know.

I have held reservations that much of the hype one hears about high-end equipment is more psychological than acoustic. I didn't want to really be influenced by the hope that the D-100 was better. I didn't want to trust or rely upon soley the emotional influence of hearing the music--if I couldn't describe the specific difference in an objective way, I didn't trust it, even if I did vaguely seem to enjoy the music more. One hard lesson that I have learned over the years is our ability to deceive ourselves into believing what we want to believe. I wanted to be able to compare a specific passage between both amps and say to myself "There! That difference right there in the viola."

Thanks again. Now, I just need to get myself a new CD player (or possibly an external DAC).

Darren

[dhiebert]

(Get the APL Marantz.   )

Upon your earlier referral, I read up on the APL Marantz. I looks interesting, but I have no prior experience with APL or Alex Peychev. Is this recommendation based upon his reputation, or do you have his new Marantz unit?

[jonwb]

That's a good follow-up post Darren.  People often don't report back on what they actually ended up doing.

As for a future source there is some discussion that recently took place in this thread here.  FWIW, my personnal recomendation would be to ditch your passive pre and run your amps directly off a modded Squeezebox2.  It sounds amazingly good irrespective of price.  Once I replaced the power supply (<$20) I almost didn't bother sending my unit out for mods (Bolder Cable).  However, w/ the promise of even greater sound quality for just a bit more money, I couldn't resist.  

Its really pretty easy to rip CDs onto your computer and its great not having to load & re-load CDs to hear different songs.  I've been without my SB2 for almost a week now and even though my Denon 2900 is a very good deck (IMHO), I find myself listening to much less music now.  W/ the SB2 it takes just a moment to hear whatever song you want to hear.  Lastly, they do have a 30-day return policy, so it doesn't hurt to give it a whirl.  

Best of luck,
Jon

[audiojerry]

dheibert, you may want to do some research here on Alex before making a commitment. There are lots of posts. Here is an example: http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=21790&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
There are a number of great dealers here at AC that offer liberal audition opportunities.

I can also concur that evening listening is superior to daytime listening. Part of this may be phychological, but later evenings do offer cleaner electricity, which has been pretty well documented and accepted as having a positive sonic impact.  

Also, I believe that you cannot choose a component on theoretically objective criteria - both measurements and listening. Most of us listen to music for the emotional connection, and if a component doesn't connect with you on an emotional level, what does it matter how objectively good it is? I spent years auditioning in pursuit of the right components. With amps I found one that connected with me several years ago, and even though I've heard objectively superior amps, and even though my amp is long on the tooth in terms of age and "state-of-the-art" technology, I have a strong connection to it and have been very satisfied with its sonic performance.  In any audition, you should spend some time listening with an objective hear and evaluting things like resolution, soundstage, dynamics, but when all that is done, you should just sit back and listen for the musical experience, and let your emotions be the judge.

[CIAudio]

Thanks again. Now, I just need to get myself a new CD player (or possibly an external DAC).

Maybe you'll want to wait for VDA•2 so you can have all CIAudio electronics  

It'll be out in 6-8 weeks, I'd be glad to let you try one out. It accepts signals up to 24/192, uses the latest PCM1794 current output DAC IC, both single-ended and balanced outputs, Toslink and Coax inputs, slow roll-off digital filter, front panel phase switch, and uses no op amps.

-Dusty-

[dhiebert]

Maybe you'll want to wait for VDA•2 so you can have all CIAudio electronics  

Well, I now have the D•100, VPC•1, and VPP•1, so I am well on my way there, already. The only thing non-CIAudio at this point is my CD player and turntable.

It accepts signals up to 24/192, uses the latest PCM1794 current output DAC IC, both single-ended and balanced output, Toslink and Coax inputs, front panel phase switch, slow roll-off digital filter, front panel phase switch, and uses no op amps.

Dusty, can you please comment on how an external DAC compares with in-player solutions? For example, when I look at modded players, like APL, the improvements include a better master clock. When using an external DAC, I presume that one is still stuck with the player's clock, which affects how accurately timed is the bit stream going to the DAC. To what extent is the laser's signal handled by the player prior to the digital outputs of the player versus how much is handled by the (replaceable/external) DAC?

This question is to help me understand how much of an improvement is possible by an external solution given the inherent limitations of my current player.

[BradJudy]

Dusty, what's your expected price on the VDA-2?

[CIAudio]

This question is to help me understand how much of an improvement is possible by an external solution given the inherent limitations of my current player.

There are advantages to both all-in-one players and separate transport/DAC combos...each have their own strengths and weaknesses.

Since CD players are mechanical devices, they are much more prone to failure. Most payers I've owned have lasted an average of 5 years before the laser or spindle motor fails...and when I've tried to repair them, parts were no longer available. There are many good CD players (most of them expensive), but what do you do when it fails or DAC technology becomes outdated?

IMO, the DAC (conversion/analog stage/power supply) is responsible for the majority of the playback performance. Our philosophy is to use a reasonably priced player and a good DAC. If the player fails or DAC becomes obsolete, you simply replace what you need to.

It all comes down to sound quality, get a few players on audition and compare it to your existing player with a VDA•2, and see what you like best.

[CIAudio]

Dusty, what's your expected price on the VDA-2?

Hi Brad,

around $600 for the VDA•2 with standard power supply, add $159 for VAC•1

See ya tomorrow at the RMAF!

-Dusty-

[BradJudy]

See ya tomorrow at the RMAF!

Not tomorrow, that whole job thing gets in the way, but I'll be there all day Saturday.  See you then.

[rivon]

around $600 for the VDA•2 with standard power supply, add $159 for VAC•1

¡Wow! seems like a major upgrade from the VDA-1, for all of us, happy owners of a VDA-1/VAC-1, what would we benefit from with the the new DAC? Is it worth the upgrade?

Best regards,

Roberto

[audiojerry]

Quote:
"This question is to help me understand how much of an improvement is possible by an external solution given the inherent limitations of my current player."

Our philosophy is to use a reasonably priced player and a good DAC. If the player fails or DAC becomes obsolete, you simply replace what you need to.

It all comes down to sound quality, get a few players on audition and compare it to your existing player with a VDA•2, and see what you like best.

I concur, but it is important that the cd player used is a transport is not responsible for degrading the signal. I switched to a dedicated transport because there was a significant audible improvement over a cd player used as a transport using the same dac. I'm not qualified to explain the technical reasons, but it was explained to me that when the transport and dac are physically separated from each other by distance and shielding there is less destructive interference caused by the electronics used by the transport (i.e. laser) and the electronics used by the dac.  

I have an 8 year old Classe dedicated transport that I leave on all the time. It's lasted this long with no problems  On the other end of the spectrum, I have a 17 year old Onkyo multidisc player that is still chugging along just fine.

[dhiebert]

What is the diameter of the spade portion of the speaker binding posts on the D•100? In other words, what size spades are required?

[CIAudio]

What is the diameter of the spade portion of the speaker binding posts on the D•100? In other words, what size spades are required?

.2" on the flats (spades horizontal) and .31" at the widest radius (spades vertical). I actually prefer cables with locking bananas on the amplifier end.
Harmonic Tech Fantasy, Pro11, and Pro9 are available this way, as well as some from other manufacturers.

-Dusty-

[dhiebert]

Maybe you'll want to wait for VDA•2... It accepts signals up to 24/192, uses the latest PCM1794 current output DAC IC, both single-ended and balanced outputs, Toslink and Coax inputs, slow roll-off digital filter, front panel phase switch, and uses no op amps.

Have you had a chance to evaluate the new AKM DACS that Alex Peychev is making such a fuss about? I haven't heard anything about the PCM1794. I am curious how it compares against the other new DAC chips and what you might have had a chance to evaluate before deciding on the PCM1794.

[CIAudio]

Have you had a chance to evaluate the new AKM DACS that Alex Peychev is making such a fuss about? I haven't heard anything about the PCM1794

The AKM439X parts are also good and have similar specs to PCM1792/1794, but we liked the performance and current outputs of the Burr Brown part. Part of the magic in VDA•2 is the way we do the I/V conversion/analog stage, which can only be done with current outputs.

[dhiebert]

I just thought I would close out this thread on my evaluation of the capable D•100 with this wonderful image that I found here.

.

Having fun...