[mlawson66]

Nice!

Have you tried running Nuforce full way to see how it does the mid/highs?
Are you using your SVS subs with 2 channel.  If so, at 40Hz lowpass?  John brought his subs in at 35 Hz and really complemented his RM30s which roll off around 30 Hz.  I am not sure what you mean by peaking at 18Hz.  I didn't know that 12" SVS woofers went below 18 Hz, let alone "peaking" at 18 Hz. I am sure they are good subs but they have metal cones which would have different signature than mega woofers Brian uses...  Joh ...

Thanks! The SVS is only participating in the HT system. I listen to lossless internet broadcast on that system and it sounds pretty good. Solid from the bottom to the top, just not quite as liquid as the 2 channel sources. I'm not sure if the RM30-MW rolls off at 30 Hz but I'm pretty sure that the standard NuForce Reference 9 does. We will fix that soon though. Maybe Big B or John can chime in with the bass actual roll off on the RM30-MW.

I've got the SVS PB12+ (2 12 inch subs with 900 watt BASH amp) tuned for 16 HZ. They have 3 tuning ports. If you leave them all open, the peak is reported to be 25 Hz, 1 port plugged is 20 Hz and 2 ports plugged is supposed to be 16 Hz. Since I have a pair of them (special deal, I got the second one for next to nothing) I went with the 16 Hz tuning option and set the HT to 40 Hz cross over. They serve as end tables and double as drink mixers and induce enough bass into the sofa to act as a back massager.

I would have gone with VMPS subs if I had known about them before I got the truck load of SVS. They do a good job for movies but I don't include them in the 2 ch system. I think that the RM30-MW with the NuForce amps moded for bass response will do the trick for now but some day we may just have to put a VMPS sub under the stairs to fill out the 2 ch system. My listening room is getting pretty full. We will just have to move soon and that will open up a whole new case of upgraditis.  

[mlawson66]

Could you elaborate on what the "big cap mod" and "Mega Woofer enhanced sub option" are?

Thanks,

Hey Joe,

The "big cap mod" that I'm referring to is the replacement of the stock full range input cap on the NuForce amp with a larger capaciter that has better low frequency characteristics. This is supposed to keep the Reference 9 from rolling off the bass at 30-40 Hz. The standard cap is supposed to sound better for mids and highs.

I can attest that the stock cap sounds good on mids and highs with the LRC on my center channel. Some day when the boss is away, I'll run one of the RM30s with 2 Reference 9s and compare that with 2 channels of the Son of Ampzilla running the other speaker. That should be enlightening...

The Mega Woofer option is a better sub on the RM30. Big B or John, chime in here if I get this wrong. I thought it was a cotton cone with a better driver. Anyway, thanks for the advice. They sound great. I can't wait to either update my NuForce Reference 9s or get another set with the better bass response option.

[mlawson66]

I'll take the blame and the thanks.

I think the reason I like your system so much is because it is quite similar to mine in many ways.

I also have to thank your wonderful wife who has helped you decide on some of the equipment, as well as not only allowed, but "encouraged" you to get it.

The reason we didn't think about getting the "bass" tweak of the Ref9s , is because it wasn't known to be available when we ordered, but we can do it on the next order as you say.

It makes me happy to see you are enjoying all the changes we have made so far, and its not over yet.

Thanks John, you rock!

[KJ]

The "big cap mod" that I'm referring to is the replacement of the stock full range input cap on the NuForce amp with a larger capaciter that has better low frequency characteristics. This is supposed to keep the Reference 9 from rolling off the bass at 30-40 Hz. The standard cap is supposed to sound better for mids and highs.

Just to clarify, Jason stated that the stock Ref 9 is configured to go down to 20Hz.  The customized version ("Reference 9 woofer mod") supposedly can push down to 10Hz or 15Hz.  I'm not aware of a roll off at 30-40Hz, but maybe Jason can clarify further.

-KJ

[mlawson66]

The "big cap mod" that I'm referring to is the replacement of the stock full range input cap on the NuForce amp with a larger capaciter that has better low frequency characteristics. This is supposed to keep the Reference 9 from rolling off the bass at 30-40 Hz. The standard cap is supposed to sound better for mids and highs.

Just to clarify, Jason stated that the stock Ref 9 is configured to go down to 20Hz.  The customized version ("Reference 9 woofer mod") supposedly can push  ...

Well, as you can see on the from the trace on the bottom, the response starts heading slightly south at 100 Hz and picks up speed at about 40 Hz.  http://www.nuforce.com/plots_ref8.htm It isn't a sharp bend and probably wouldn't be noticable on a full range speaker but that probably represents about half of the frequency response of this sub. Don't get me wrong, they put my dental work in jeopardy. Also, the noise figures at the lower frequencies are very nice and the > 4000 dampening makes for very clean and articulate bass. I've just been a bit spoiled with 2 SVS subs tuned to the brown note resonant frequency... http://www.svsubwoofers.com/pb2plusfr.htm

I wish that I had known about VMPS before I bought the SVSs but some day we will have a Big B sub be the "monster under the stairs" and fill out the bass response on the 2 channel system.

[rustydoglim]

Well, as you can see on the from the trace on the bottom, the response starts heading slightly south at 100 Hz and picks up speed at about 40 Hz. http://www.nuforce.com/plots_ref8.htm It isn't a sharp bend and probably wouldn't be noticable on a full range speaker but that probably represents about half of the frequency response of this sub. Don't get me wrong, they put my dental work in jeopardy. Also, the noise figures at the lower frequencies are very nice and the > 4000 dampening makes for very clean and articulate bass. I've just been a bit spoiled with 2 SVS subs tuned to the brown note resonant frequency... http://www.svsubwoofers.com/pb2plusfr.htm

Pay attention to the scale!    There is only 0.9db drop between 100hz and 20hz. The FR on NuForce is scarily straight with +/- 0.5db from 100hz to 20Khz. Notice that there is 2.5 db fluctuation on the svs from 20hz to 100hz. So if NuForce is plotted on the same scale as the SVS, you might think that it is a straightline  

With regards to the 15hz mod, we need to spend some time to test it out and evaluate the sound so we didn't make that an option for customer. The standard Ref 9 already goes down to 20hz and few speaker can go that low so there is no urgency to do test the 15hz mod. We have to be careful not to ruin a good amp  

[rustydoglim]

Mike, since you already bought 3 Ref 9s, it only cost you $1500 to purchase two more Ref 9. Remember to ask for the HT pack pricing. Your next purchase will qualify you for that.  We will make the adjustment with your dealer.  We want everyone to be like Mike   , switching everything to NuForce amp. Therefore the volume pricing to encourage that.  When the AVP 16 is out (looks like we're adding XLR output to it and take out composite video, see AVP 16 spec in Nuforce circle) in November, if you have the HT pack, you can get the AVP 16 at <$600 (price not confirm yet).

[ctviggen]

Hey, the gain on the Nuforce Reference 9 is 26 dB, which is exactly what my Jeff Rowland is.  This means that I could biamp with the Nuforce (JR on highs/mids and Nuforce on bottom) and not have to worry as much about level matching.  I'll have to give that some thought.

[mlawson66]

Pay attention to the scale!    There is only 0.9db drop between 100hz and 20hz. The FR on NuForce is scarily straight with +/- 0.5db from 100hz to 20Khz. Notice that there is 2.5 db fluctuation on the svs from 20hz to 100hz. So if NuForce is plotted on the same scale as the SVS, you might think that it is a straightline  

With regards to the 15hz mod, we need to spend some time to test it out and evaluate the sound so we didn't make that an option for customer. The standard Ref 9 already goes do ...

Jason, I did say that it wasn't a sharp bend. I also said that the Reference 9s make very clean and articulate bass. The noise figures are particularly nice in that frequencey range and of course the damping factor is incredible. The point is for an amp that is driving subs that roll off at 30 Hz or so (still not exactly sure where the MW sub starts to roll off) we would want the trace to stay flat longer or possibly event head slightly north to help compensate for speaker roll off.

The NuForce amps are awesome. The ultimate solution would be to add a VMPS sub to the mix.  

After looking at the trace, I'll probably switch the SVS subs back to 20 Hz mode. I still only use them for the HT system. In my opinion, they just aren't as musical as VMPS speakers.

Also, the Reference 9 that is running the LRC is doing an awsome job.

[mlawson66]

Hey, the gain on the Nuforce Reference 9 is 26 dB, which is exactly what my Jeff Rowland is.  This means that I could biamp with the Nuforce (JR on highs/mids and Nuforce on bottom) and not have to worry as much about level matching.  I'll have to give that some thought.

Bob, this would be highly recommended. This has been the single best improvement in my system to date. (after the initial replacement of all Athena speakers with VMPS and Son of Ampzilla amp). It is incredible that all of this comes out of an amp the size of my headphone amp.

Vocals have much more presence than before and bass is deep and profound.

I can't wait to try out the bass moded NuForce amps.

[John Casler]

 The NuForce amps are awesome. The ultimate solution would be to add a VMPS sub to the mix.  
  ...

No Argument from "ME" on that conclusion

[mlawson66]

I can see a larger sub in my future...  

Jeez John, you have a pair of them in your reference system? Man, I thought I was a bass nut. I don't think the boss will let me get away with a pair of them but after the Outlaw-ectomy/NuForce transplant and the Krell showcase and a better CD, it will be time to break out the big guns bass.

[John Casler]

I can see a larger sub in my future...  

Jeez John, you have a pair of them in your reference system? Man, I thought I was a bass nut. I don't think the boss will let me get away with a pair of them but after the Outlaw-ectomy/NuForce transplant and the Krell showcase and a better CD, it will be time to break out the big guns bass.

Correction:  I have TWO pair of LARGERs (that's 4 LARGERS)      in my system.

[doug s.]

mike, humour some of us - swap the nuforce & ampzilla amps & post your results...  

doug s.

[mlawson66]

I can see a larger sub in my future...  

Jeez John, you have a pair of them in your reference system? Man, I thought I was a bass nut. I don't think the boss will let me get away with a pair of them but after the Outlaw-ectomy/NuForce transplant and the Krell showcase and a better CD, it will be time to break out the big guns bass.

Correction:  I have TWO pair of LARGERs (that's 4 LARGERS)      in my system.

Man that's got to register on the richter scale. I'm jealous...  

What are you using to drive this monument to massive bass?

[mlawson66]

mike, humour some of us - swap the nuforce & ampzilla amps & post your results...  

doug s.

Hi Doug, I'll see if I can send the boss out on errands this weekend and light them up. I'm curious myself. The LRC sounds great but the Sherwood P-965 isn't in the same league as the KAV 280P so we haven't seen the true potential yet.

Yeah, my sweetie enjoys the system but doesn't understand the rigors of a true listening test.   "Turn that down!"

Well, maybe I'll play hookie from work.  

[John Casler]

I can see a larger sub in my future...  

Jeez John, you have a pair of them in your reference system? Man, I thought I was a bass nut. I don't think the boss will let me get away with a pair of them but after the Outlaw-ectomy/NuForce transplant and the Krell showcase and a better CD, it will be time to break out the big guns bass.

Correction:  I have TWO pair of LARGERs (that's 4 LARGERS)      in my system.

Man that's got to register on the richter scale. I'm jealous...  

What are you using to drive this monument to massive bass?
 ...

Right now, I use the Son (200wpc @ 4ohms)  to drive the Front Pair and a CineNova (600wpc) to drive the rears.

[warnerwh]

mlawson66: If you're a bass nut then you gotta talk to John.  The bass quality and power from a pair of largers is impressive to say the least.  Look on audioreview.com for user comments on the VMPS Larger subs.

Two Largers with a 12" carbon fiber woofer and a 15" polycone woofer both active and another 15" passive driver your best bass dreams would become reality.  I'm also a bass nut but the bass must be of very high quality too. Another good thing about the megawoofers is that I believe it's impossible to bottom them out(better ask Brian to be sure).  I believe you've already learned how much value this line offers and the subs are right up there with the rest of the line.

[ScottMayo]

"Correction: I have TWO pair of LARGERs (that's 4 LARGERS)    in my system."

Yeah, for a while I thought I had a severe bass resonance in my room, but it turns out that JC was playing his demo disk.  

If you look on the http://earthquake.usgs.gov/ map, they have JC's place marked. We keep warning him that he's too close to San Andreas for this kind of system...

[rustydoglim]

By doubling the input decoupling cap, the 20hz drop is now only 0.25db (versus 0.9db). Yeah, it is very good but can anyone hear the diff?  Well, an expert audiophile is helping us to audition it this weekend (he heard the pre-mod version). Our equipment at the office can't measure <20hz. We need to send the amp to our lab up north.