GR Research will be anouncing the BIGGEST developement EVER!

RAW · « **Reply #60 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 04:26 am »

OK we will not over take Dannys forum here with my topic I had brought up of using a ribbon

But as Danny and I do work together I will make a point here.

Attached are all 5k distortion test done by Mark K and posted on his site along with all other data.I have just copied the data and used only the 5k test as the 5k tests he has done look all to be almost even less the scale size ratio is set to 10 on some.

Attached another set of measurments notice the tests contain
Vifa D26TG-35, DX25, XT25, SS9500 and the Usher 9950
Tweeter test group 2-includes the SS9300, SS9500, and SS9700
Tweeter test group 3-includes the Seas 27TDFC and 27TDC
Tweeter test group 4-includes the Hiquphon OW2, Vifa XT19, and the Morel MDT30
Arum Cantus G2si ONLY RIBBON TESTED
Human Pro 002
Vifa DX19
Tweeter test group 5-Seas Millenium Excel, SS6000, North Creek D28, and LPG26T
Dayton RS28A unshielded
Eton 19SD
Seas 27TBFC/G
Logic XT25
Morel MDT33 and Supreme 110

http://members.shaw.ca/awooley/pictures/5Kdistortiontests3.JPG
Click on the 3 above links and all the tests done by Mark will show you the results of a single ribbon test with all the others as dome tweeters.

Notice the waterfall and FR for the G2si and the Usher well kind of hard to face the facts.

Why does everyone jump up and down from a single test that does not even test a short ribbon! We all know longer ribbons react different so lets just compair apples to apples.Not a single person has tested a line of ribbons.Well lets see we did! We tested all the AC ribbons everone along with the LCY.Why to measure them all on a IEC baffle for true data that is all equal.

I have only ever seen Marks data for the G2Si and that is the only compete data for a small ribbon made public.Why,not like to see all the facts or just what you would like to see.

Yes ribbons are sensitive to air movement besides that put a small ribbon agains a dome any day and it all comes down to useage.A ribbon can be crossed at 2k as other tweeters can as well but requires a step slope to do so.And that all is ribbon dependant.Which brand and model.

So lets keep the facts as facts and the farms apart.
If tests are done on tweeters of 1" in size why does a tweeter that has a 3-4" ribbon compair? It does not If you want to slash ribbons test a few and look at distortion of them all not a single ribbon testing one brand and model.

Last have a good look at the graphs above against the lone G2Si and look at distortion in domes!

http://members.shaw.ca/awooley/pictures/5Kdistortiontests2.JPG
http://members.shaw.ca/awooley/pictures/5Kdistortiontests3.JPG
http://members.shaw.ca/awooley/pictures/5Kdistortiontests.JPG

Enjoy

Jason1 · « **Reply #61 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 04:50 am »

For me it’s more important not to have CTC lobbing issues, or beaming issues from the woofer playing too high up. That sounds more realistic, IMO.

If you have a 3-way with a small mid, I don’t have any problems with ribbons. MTMs, or 2-ways with larger woofers, then it’s not for me.

kfr01 · « **Reply #62 on:** 28 Mar 2006, 05:36 am »

It appears to me that ribbons only really excel in the Spectral Decay area. The waterfall is the only plot I ever see a ribbon consistently and clearly winning in tweeter comparisons.

It seems that one must weigh the audibility of a ribbon's improved spectral decay v.s. the negatives of running a ribbon. Those being:

a) higher cost
b) fragile nature
c) necessity of crossing over higher
d) poor vertical off-axis response
e) higher harmonic distortion levels

The decision to use ribbons seems far from clear cut to me.

That said, the G2si seems to be a very capable ribbon at a very reasonable cost.

On a side note - The Morel Supreme appears to be an excellent tweeter, and the Seas 27TDC appears to be a good value for the money.

bhobba · « **Reply #63 on:** 29 Mar 2006, 12:27 am »

Quote from: Jason1

I would prefer a high quality textile dome that can cross below 2khz, over a ribbon.

That Neo 3 looks nice - distortion as good or better than the best domes and you can cross low - Danny mentioned 1.5K and I think he used 1.8K in his bad to the bone that impressed everyone. But SP Tech's approach using a dome and their wave guide looks great too - a 600hz crossover and a reduction in distortion due to the wave guide (you need to reduce the output at certain frequencies so distortion is reduced). Personally I don't mind ribbons above 5K where some of the better ones distortion looks ok - it is crossing them low that seems a problem. I have read posts of ribbons combined with an accuton c44 sounding simply awesome. I think there are many ways to skin a cat and achieve great results.

Thanks
Bill

Hank · « **Reply #64 on:** 30 Mar 2006, 07:22 pm »

Wow- that's a pretty smooth plot 100 to 4,000 Hz. IF there are no blips in the impedance plot, that new puppy might just sound sweet!

JoshK · « **Reply #65 on:** 30 Mar 2006, 07:56 pm »

From those graphs (I have seen them before) the G2Si is respectable on the 3 tone 5K @100db, but not one of the leaders in this pack. The 106db level though looks quite ugly, IMO.

I think most would agree that above, say, 4khz that the G2Si or other ribbon works really well, it is when crossing b/w 2k & 4k (steep slope) that I would rather use a dome. But then you are getting into a tough situations of having to push a cone up pretty darn high and paying the price in power response discontinuity in doing so.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #66 on:** 30 Mar 2006, 08:36 pm »

Quote

IF there are no blips in the impedance plot, that new puppy might just sound sweet!

If there would have been any blips in the impedance I wouldn't have even had them send me the samples.

See M-165:

See M-165 LS woofers for the line sources:

Hank · « **Reply #67 on:** 31 Mar 2006, 06:17 pm »

Quote

If there would have been any blips in the impedance I wouldn't have even had them send me the samples.

Of course not. Hey, that LS impedance curve is S M O O T H !

Danny Richie · « **Reply #68 on:** 5 Apr 2006, 10:27 pm »

I just did some playing around with the new M-165 woofer.

Here is the response with a single inductor and impedance equalization (one small cap and a resistor).

How about this spectral decay?

jcake5 · « **Reply #69 on:** 5 Apr 2006, 11:39 pm »

Danny,

I hope it is proper to ask as to when the drivers will be available for purchase. If so, any hint as to when?

Cheers,
Eric

P.S. Price?

Hank · « **Reply #70 on:** 6 Apr 2006, 06:13 pm »

Decent freq response.
Now THAT'S a waterfall plot!!

yithai · « **Reply #71 on:** 14 May 2006, 04:54 am »

Any news on the line array?

Cheers
Hai

tberd · « **Reply #72 on:** 14 May 2006, 05:24 am »

I'll echo that . Any news Danny ? I'll take a pair right now. Unheard , unseen and hurry up buddy . I can't wait till the LS-9 hits my front door.

tberd

Danny Richie · « **Reply #73 on:** 14 May 2006, 05:10 pm »

I know, I am anxious too.

1000 woofers have been ordered and in production.

1000 planar magnetic tweeters have been ordered and are in production.

Mark Schifter has been given the drawings for the enclosures and the enclosures are in the process of being produced as well.

Sample enclosures will be produced and sent here to be used to design the crossovers and then they will be ready for release as kits and as fully assembled.

Right now I am just waiting for everything I need to get here.

I think you guys will be floored for what you will be able to buy these for fully assembled and ready to play. The enclosures are really going to be special too.

MarkR7 · « **Reply #74 on:** 20 May 2006, 04:28 am »

I look forward to auditioning the LS-6s! I have a pair of Dodd 120 tube monoblocks on order, so I'm thinking these should be a nice synergistic match.

Some things that I haven't seen addressed in the various forums...

1) What will the impedance be of these line arrays?

2) My current speakers just don't do it for me at low listening levels. They don't come alive until I start hitting 85db or so at the listening position. How will the LS' do at low listening levels?

3) If I were to sit roughly 10' from either speaker (I assume that the LS-6 is a better choice here than the LS-9), how far apart should they be for starters? Would I start at an equilateral triangle? Is it ok for them to be wider apart than the distance to each speaker?

Thanks!

Danny Richie · « **Reply #75 on:** 20 May 2006, 12:51 pm »

1) The LS-6 will be 8 ohms nominal. The LS-9 will be about 6 ohms nominal.

2) The LS models should be fine at low levels. All the other line source speakers that I have designed have been.

3) If I were sitting 10' away then I would want them 7' apart. I like them about 2/3 to 3/4 of the listening distance away from each other.

HAL · « **Reply #76 on:** 20 May 2006, 01:39 pm »

Oh, Baby. LS-9's!

drunkonjack · « **Reply #77 on:** 20 May 2006, 10:16 pm »

I'm sphyqued about those LS-9's

I want my pair to go loud

BradJudy · « **Reply #78 on:** 20 May 2006, 11:01 pm »

Danny: Will you be bringing LS's to the RMAF this year or something else?

DOJ: I don't think there's any worry about these being able to go loud - I get the feeling Danny tests out designs at rather high levels from time to time.

You should have heard how loud we had Rob Zombie going on the partial open-baffle speakers at last year's RMAF.

Danny Richie · « **Reply #79 on:** 20 May 2006, 11:54 pm »

If all goes well we'll have both models on hand for the show and have them in stock and ready to ship, kits and fully assembled.

And yes, I will give them a workout.

I good speaker has to be able to do everything.