Zu Tone, Druid, and Definition Speakers-Listening Impression

_scotty_ · « **Reply #40 on:** 6 Sep 2005, 02:40 am »

The fact that the frequency response graph has been massaged into a nearly meaningless waste of time doesn't really bother me, this is old school marketing at it's finest, Pioneer,Sansui,and Marantz among others used to have a similar graph printed on a sticker that was stuck on the back above the speaker terminals. The thing that did concern me about the Zu Druid MK4 graph was the
approximatly 5dB level mismatch between the main driver and the tweeter.
All frequencies above about 4.5Khz are down 5dB relative to the rest of the speakers output. This will very audible as a loss of high frequency air and extension and will defininately rob cymbals of some of their life and excitement that should normally be reproduced. This mismatch appears to have been dealt with in the Zu Definition if the "graph" can be believed.
The ringing seen in the graph could easily be the 2kHz cone breakup modes
showing up in the impulse response in this fashion. A waterfall plot would show the cone breakup modes quite clearly as ridges of stored energy at 2kHz that are being released later in time after excitation by the initial impulse.
The negative going portion of the spike is overshoot and is a common artifact in almost all drivers and certainly many tweeters. Drivers that show no overshoot on an impulse signal are theoretically superior
but I find that they frequently sound drier than they should which leads me to think that reverberation information may not be properly reproduced by them.
Scotty

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #41 on:** 6 Sep 2005, 03:56 am »

I never took any of their graphs very seriously, as they were so smoothed-looking as to appear meaningless except as entertainment, but then I don't place that much stock in graphs in the first place.
I do think, though, that the shelving of response above 3 kHz (not 4.5 - it's down 3dB at 3kHz, from what I can see) at what looks like an average of 3dB is significant, especially as it fits with numerous comments to that effect. This would appear to have nothing to do with the tweeter crossover (freq too low) and everything to do with a large driver's natural characteristic, uncorrected by any crossover manipulation. The upside would be the advantages, and they are attractive, of direct drive from amp to driver. Ain't no crossover like no crossover!

They did call it the Dark!

Maybe the MK4 is brighter. Or not.

Russell

213Cobra · « **Reply #42 on:** 6 Sep 2005, 06:39 am »

It's debatable with the resolution of the graph, but the recessed plateau looks at most 3.5db down to me. As speakers go, that's pretty good. No question, the Druid sounds "warmer" than the Definition because of this slight recess extending through the top range. However there is no loss of high frequency extension, and all the "life" of cymbals, for example is present. The effect is not rolled-off high frequency response, just a trifle recessed for a slightly warm but extended sound. I agree that drivers with little or no "overshoot" have tended to sound drier than live sounds from the same sources. Anyway, I had the same reaction as you describe the first time I saw the Zu graphs, and then found their actual sound in real conditions to be better than expected.

Phil

G.ear · « **Reply #43 on:** 6 Sep 2005, 02:57 pm »

Phil,

You are so right. Every speaker designer has to make compromises, and the fact that one parameter in one speaker is inferior to that same parameter in another does not guarantee sonic superiority in the one that exhibits the superior performance in the parameter under test (eg., impulse response). There are so many other factor that combine to render the overall result. In the end, it's all about balance.

Boy, not only do we not all hear the same things, but we read charts differently too. Scotty and Russell clearly aren't reading the Druid's FR chart the same way, and I might read it a little differently yet. I see the whole thing from approx. 100 HZ to 20KHZ as being within + or - 2.5 db relative to the speaker's stated sensitivity of 101 db. The response peaks at 2 KHZ @ approx 103.5 db before declining to approx. 99db @ 4KHZ. This should give the speaker a sense of forwardness and presence in the upper midrange that many find appealing. From there on up the treble is exceedingly smooth and I would suspect completely non-fatiguing. As FRDs go, I'd have to say its a very nice response curve.

Whatever the response curve is on the Druids, you can bet it will be different on the Definitions by virtue of the loading differences between the Griewe alignment of the Druids and the sealed box loading of the Definitions. If the configuration in the Definitions is more damped, the ringing exhibited in the impulse response of the Druid could be reduced as well.

From your comments, Phil, it is clear you have found your speaker. If I get Definitions, I want to get a custom finish, and as such I'm not willing to risk the $1500 custom finish upcharge should I not be as enamoured with them as you and decide to send them back, though I suspect that is a fairly low probability.

Dean

jswallac · « **Reply #44 on:** 11 Sep 2005, 01:38 am »

I somehow forgot to post these pictures from the listening session. Not sure how identify the gallery (I forgot to label it so it is untitled). Perhaps this link will work:

http://audiocircle.com/circles/modules.php?op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php&set_albumName=albut59

Sound · « **Reply #45 on:** 17 Sep 2005, 12:17 pm »

Was wondering if anyone who heard the Zu speakers have also heard the VSA 99's and could offer up a good sonic comparison between the two. They are essentially in the same price range and speaker category-definitely competitors- built in bass amp, stated flat response etc.

Thanks

Afterimage · « **Reply #46 on:** 5 Oct 2005, 09:48 am »

How do the Druids or Defs. Handle recordings that are not the best. I own a lot of stuff, rock albums, that are not the best recordings. My GMA Callistos are stellar with poor recrodings. They make them come alive. I have had other speakers that are more revealing and everything just collapses. I would rather hear some theses rock recordings in the car or a boombox than on my mulit thousand dollar two channel system. Not so with the Callistos. Do the Zu's only need great recrodings to sound good or are they more versitile.

miklorsmith · « **Reply #47 on:** 5 Oct 2005, 02:18 pm »

Druids only for now. Def's arrive Friday.

The Druids are not a hyperdetailed speaker. They are in many ways more accurate than the norm though. I'd say that it depends on what's wrong with the recording. If it's an 80's "early digital" problem, you're probably as good with the Druids as anything. If it's a pop-record, compressed dynamics problem it can be very annoying, probably because you will compare with how a real dynamics should sound.

The Druids will reeducate you about proper dynamic reproduction.