[michaelv]

Hi,
  What is your favorite musical sub? I am thinking of buying one in any time soon, but i don't know which one to pick. I have HSU in my hometheater. It works fine for movie, but not so good for the music.

thanks.

[Bemopti123]

One name says it all, REL.

You can run it parallel and not muck up any sound sending signals from the sub to speaker etc...

Some subs only take RCA ins, which I do not favor.  Always best to run subwoofer directly from amplifier output.

[woodsyi]

Hi,
  What is your favorite musical sub? I am thinking of buying one in any time soon, but i don't know which one to pick. I have HSU in my hometheater. It works fine for movie, but not so good for the music.

thanks.

I would have said 2 VMPS Largers.  I have them on their side standing "tall" next to my RM40s and this placement and orientation really cleared up bass.  Run on Crown K2 they are musical and much more.   Now I wonder if a DIY bass towers wouldn't be better somhow........  

You need at least 2(maybe 4) for music. And you need sound treatment of your rooms before subs (any make) to work properly.

[BradJudy]

Have you charted your sub response?  Since the room greatly impacts low frequency response, you might have problems due to the room.  Good in movies and not music could mean that you have strong response in the 30Hz area (popular for movie effects), but weaker response at higher frequencies that are more common in music.  Once you chart the response, you can try some different locations in the room to get the best response.  You might get a sub 'upgrade' without buying a new sub.  

Even if this doesn't help your current experience, it can help you to identify the best location for your new sub.

[ctviggen]

A lot of people like HSU subs for music.  I agree with the others -- check out better placement and your room's response.  (I have three subs -- two VMPS Largers for stereo and an SVS for movies, along with my two VMPS Largers.)

[oris98]

Just got a pair of ACI Force Subs (sound qty is very close to RELL but in a much lower price) and I am very happy with it for my music 2 channel setup.   Stereo sub setup provides a lot more balance to the sound stage.. I turned one sub off the other day for experiment and in 1 minute I regreted I didn't have the sub turned back on fast enough..

[John Casler]

Obviously I have a tendency to agree with the VMPS suggestions, but in reality, much attention should be paid to the "mains" of the system.

For example if your mains use a "woven carbon fiber" woofer, they may mate better with a Sub of similar composition.  If you are using a metal woofer, the overtones might suggest a different Sub.

What mains will you be using and how do you propose they be crossed over?

Running full range with supplental bottom octave(s) or using a crossover on the mains too?

Also what x-over frequency will you need the sub to cover?  If it is really low, (less than) 35Hz then the requirements are less critical, than if you want the sub to "fill in", or supplement 80Hz down for example.

[michaelv]

Thanks all for replying.

Right now , i have Totem Forrest, so i would like to get Totem sub so that it can be matched to the Forrest. However, it's too expensive. That's why i want to find the alternative. The Forrest actually plays down to 30hz if properly setup. And one good thing is i have room treatment such as bass trap that i made from OC 703 .

[Bemopti123]

Don't the ACI Force subs just provide RCA ins? When I was shopping for my sub, I was looking at doing a REL like job, that is not crossover, but simply running both the speakers and the sub parallel to fill in the bottom crossing at around 80hz.  The lack of speaker level ins in the ACIs steered me away from those offerings.  

The funny thing is that I got a sub, used it for less than 3 months and now, it is seating, gathering dust because my actual pair of speakers, although with just 8" no crossover or any other driver, produce enough lows to make a wall slap echo.  No need of subs.

2 way mini monitors with the same sub produced staggering, seamless presentation that no 2 way monitors ever could.  In the case of the Forest, it is possible, just try to see if you can make do with what you have.  Sometimes subs simply add a tiny bit more but integration is how we say, a bitch?

Paul K

[JoshK]

Musical Sub?  Why not attack the problem for a more creative and SOTA approach?

http://www.linkwitzlab.com/woofer.htm

[Mike Dzurko]

Don't the ACI Force subs just provide RCA ins? When I was shopping for my sub, I was looking at doing a REL like job, that is not crossover, but simply running both the speakers and the sub parallel to fill in the bottom crossing at around 80hz.  The lack of speaker level ins in the ACIs steered me away from those offerings.  

The funny thing is that I got a sub, used it for less than 3 months and now, it is seating, gathering dust because my actual pair of speakers, although with just 8" no crossover or ...

Paul:

For the record, all ACI subs are and always have been shipped with speaker level adapters for those wishing to use the "parallel" hookup approach.  See the first hookup on this page:

http://www.audioc.com/library1/subsetupft.htm

Have a great day!

[Bemopti123]

Man!  And before I got the sub I got I was considering the ACI Titans.  I went all over the site and could not find this info.  That is really, really bad.  How old is this line level/RCA adapter diagram?

[Hoots]

Have you charted your sub response? Since the room greatly impacts low frequency response, you might have problems due to the room. Good in movies and not music could mean that you have strong response in the 30Hz area (popular for movie effects), but weaker response at higher frequencies that are more common in music. Once you chart the response, you can try some different locations in the room to get the best response.

I charted my sub and found a graph that looked like a mountain.  When I applied R-DES I was able to flatten the response.  The results was more definition and a more constant volume as a bass guitar changed notes.  R-DES is brand independent.

The GR-Research DIY sub(s) seems like a contender for this thread.  Were those the woofers mentioned as "DIY sub tower"?

[RichardS]

I've got several suggestions (depending on your price range) as well as some personal experiences to share.

As to JoshKs recommendation of the Linkwitz Phoenix subs, I'm getting ready to try these in my system using the double stack, four 12" Peerless XLS 830500 per side. I'll give an update later. If your handy, this could be a great and comparatively inexpensive way to go.

see:
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/woofer3.htm

I grew to respect dipoles 10 years ago when I couldn't get rid of boomy bass in my room from my Proac 3.5s. I later switched to Genesis V with eight 8" dipole drivers, and the bass was clear, clean and fast. Dipoles put out a figure-8 pattern and there's less room nodes excited. I've heard the Linkwitz subs in two systems and have been quite impressed. My present set-up (different speakers now) includes a Tact to digitally equalize the bass--an even better, but considerably more expensive, solution.

I'm presently using a pair of RBH 1010 (passive) subs, which are really good for both music and HT. If you can budget it, there's definite advantages to using outboard amp/crossover and getting the amp away from a furiously vibrating box. Each RBH has two 10" metal cone woofers which are both fast and extended. They replaced a pair of VBT (TBI) subs that are probably faster and slightly more musical but don't move as much air, so have less impact.

I still use a VBT in another room with their VBT200 sub amp and I'd highly recommend it for music. Maybe the best-integrating, reasonably-priced sub on the market w/o equalization. You can get one to start, and add another later as finances permit.

I've also found Echobuster bass busters to be of some help. Some rooms can really mess up bass frequencies (which will often then muddy up the mids).

Good luck.

[orthobiz]

I added a REL B2 earlier this year, crossover at 28Hz, adds lows only when there are lows. If you need to fill in 80Hz and lower, I think the system is lacking bass to the point where you may be less happy with the result. The REL is the best thing I've done to my stereo in a long time, certainly the most audibly apparent!

biz

[scottielee]

the velodyne dd series are superb with on screen eq software.

[orthobiz]

Does Velodyne have an option of buying the microphone/interface separately from the woofer for tuning purposes? I used the Rives Radio Shack-adjusted CD test tone disc to tune my REL. I know some of the
Velo advantage is built into the subwoofer also, like the on-screen sliders
at various frequencies, no?

biz

[BradJudy]

Does Velodyne have an option of buying the microphone/interface separately from the woofer for tuning purposes?

I'm not sure if it has hit the streets yet, but Velodyne is selling their EQ component separately as the SMS-1.  Other options include the AV123 R-DES box or a Behringer BFD.

[Eric]

I also recommend the ACI subs I have owned the Titan and now the LFM's. They are the most musical I have heard!!

[JLM]

The speakers Bemo mentioned above are Martin King based mass loaded transmission lines.  I've used MLTL since the 70s and this design, when done right, provides the most musical (deep, fast, accurate) bass I've ever heard.  Every other practical solution is muddy noise (my low priority HT system has a Hsu VTF-2).