[analog97]

I just bought your Cornet2.  The reason I was interested was because I was attracted by a simple comparison I did between the EAR 834 and your Cornet2.  The reason I bought it was largely due to your experience and your willingness to stand behind your product and answer all my questions (except the last one about capacitor polarity confusion, "re # 3").  Tonite I finished assembly.  I am confident I did it right, but tomorrow my DMM arrives and I will check everything I can before it is turned on.

I am a long-time Stereophile reader, although that does not mean I am a keen fan of their positions on high-end equipment.  I think your position there, with the A-rated Trumpet and Bugle has gotten you a lot of attention, although I have no idea at what cost.  I think this is a good bet for you, but you might try to fashion a "challenge" in your ads to draw out the vinyl enthusiasts.  My good friend in Baltimore, with whom I share "vinyl rallys" is a pro advertising guy.  I will ask him what he thinks and report back.

[beto1]

Hi,
as a Stereophile subscriptor, I think your finished products will have a very good showcase there. And you have two products on the last 500 recommended components (October 2005), one in class A.  I think, Enjoy the music, Positive Feedback and Audiogon will be the best for both, half kit and finished products.
Regards,
Beto

[orpheus]

Borbely writes articles about the assembly of his kits, given that precedent, I would think they would be happy to receive an article from you.  I am often frustrated by the projects they write up because they require getting one off boards made, and I don't want to go to that kind of trouble when there are boards already available for similar projects.  As a reader of that magazine, I would be more likely to be inspired to build something that had a board readily available.  

You would be sharing your experience with the DIY community and also promoting your work.  You probably already have a lot of information for the article in your manuals, and would only have to spend time expanding on work you've already done.  They published the manual for Pass's First Watt this month as an article, so they're open to informative articles that are related to commercial interests.

Here is a link to their website about submitting articles:

http://www.audioxpress.com/guide.htm

-Aaron.

[hagtech]

Good idea about aXp.  Been awhile since I've done an article for them (two so far).  The FryKleaner article did exactly what you propose.  Great exposure for no cost.  Was going to send them something on MONOGRAM, but forgot.

jh

[orpheus]

I haven't been a subscriber for terribly long, I'm sorry that I missed your previous article.  Thank you for considering my suggestion.

-Aaron.

[heartm8]

Dear Hagtech,

I wrote this and reread it, and realized I strayed off topic. My advice is below in the las two paragraphs.

This is my first post. I registered to make it. I do not have any of your products but I follow them closely. I believe that most people familiar with audio who truly want quality will find your products. High end audio is the never ending quest for better gear. ha ha.  I myself am interested most in the cymbal power amps. Until I sell some stuff, I have no room for them. My current gear is Counterpoint tube pre, Coda pre,  and Nestorovic mono tube amps or Bryston 3bst, Tandburg Tuner and Cassette deck, Speaker Art Proklaim Speakers, Marantz DCC-92 tapedecks, Digital VHS, Pioneer Laserdisc, Faroujda DVD.  My only heresy is my Technics 1200 turntable with Ortofon cartridge. My logic is its so damn hard to set up a cartridge, that the Heisenburg uncertainty principle comes into play. I just like snapping in the damn cartride and playing records, knowing its in line.

But where do I do my most listening? My little POS Altec lansing headphones with my laptop mp3's. ha ha. If only I'd known before I spent that 30 grand on gear! Actually, the Creative 2zs has snr of 112db and very low distortion. It sounds really good.

One thing I have noticed about outstanding equipment, is that most if not all of the manufacturer's go out of business. I believe this is because truly outstanding equipment costs a lot to make right, and the majority of people are unwilling to pay. A manufacturer reaches a stage where they have to decide "do I make crappy stuff that makes me more money or do I keep my principles of not cutting corners". That's what Klipsch did. I live near the Klipsch factory (about 20 miles west), and you cant even buy Klipschorns in this town. Isnt that interesting? They dont make their money off them. In fact the whole hifi market is undergoing slow death due to 5.1  I dont think that CAL thought all there DAC patents would one day be owned by Go-Video, the makers of the biggest POS VCRs on earth.  I really want to see you make it hagtech. So here's what you've got to do: target your niche customers.  

As far as advertising, I dont think that Stereophile is the place. People who buy Stereophile seem to get as much or more pleasure  from showing off their piano black glossy speakers or gigantic racks of 3" faceplate gear as with listening. Invariably, these people will have a $25,000 speaker in a crummy room, symmetrically placed for maximum crummy sound. What I think hagtech should do is appeal to people who look for quality. You're appealing to the logic side of the brain, while stereophile appeals to the artisitic, ego-centric side of the brain. If you do advertise in Stereophile, hire some designer like Phillipe Starcke to design a case and some cool knobs, with some kind of crystal display of the tubes. Make sure the cases weigh in at minimum 60 pounds, and quadruple your prices. Then pay 20% of your budget to Stereophile, and get your good review  


All kidding aside, I like my gear to look cool too. Yeah, there are people who want their stuff to LOOK good too. Your gear is great, and I like the utilitarian look of it.  I dont think anyone should turn their nose up at their business. Its their money, and they want people who see that amp to KNOW its expensive. Stereophile people, there systems are for making a statement as much as for listening, and there's nothing wrong with that. And there are those that will want Black Gat caps in everthing, even if an identical Taiwan part measures exactly the same on the bench. I think your small manufacturing facility can lend itself to these purposes, and you can offer different options advertised in different places for these many different markets. That's why it's "marketing".  Make a gussied up Cymbal, and offer it as an option. Charge for it. Make one with optional parts, with caps blessed by a Shaman. Charge for it. Marketing is just that: getting people who otherwise wouldnt buy your fine products to buy them.

I think you may be suprised at how many people pay for the options. I myself dont like open tube or speaker grills, kids love to get electrocuted or poke holes in your drivers. So your cymbals would have to be real high. I'd like cages. And I will confess, I love the chrome on my Nestrovics, reminds me of my motorcycle.

I think Hagtech should place lots of cheap, small ads in lots of unique places. For example, I own harleys, dive equipmet, and golf a lot. Guys who have lots of income to buy such gear have lots of hobbies. I have  subscriptions to FHM, Maxim, Men's health, Stuff, and GQ. I flip through golf magazines, car magazines and chopper magazines. A lot of guys who own harleys (I own an Indian) have money. Also advertise in trade magazines of Doctors and Lawyers. Like Science Magazine. You could appeal to hobbyists by Popular Mechanics. Send them an amp to review. Or popular radio hobbyist or whatever, you get my drift. You can buy a ton of small ads that say something like "think bose is as good as it gets?" or "looks like iron, sounds like gold", with a link to a place that explains sound and audio and introduces your unique engineering aspect. Some kind of cool flash demonstration or ad with ocilloscopes to teach.  

As an example, my boss got scammed into buying this mid fi crap reciever, to drive B&W 801 Nautilus'. Everyone chuckled at me at work when I told them I loved old records. You'd think I said I listened on a Thomas edison Grammophone with a horn coming out of the tonearm.

I had enough self preservation not to disparage my boss' terrible sounding system, just "sounds great". As usual, such great speakers were in a room 20 feet wide, 10 feet deep, pushed up agains the corners by his wife's decorator, tons of coloration and standing waves. He had the whole 7.1 scam set up, and he couldnt believe when he came over to my house and listened to 2 channel, set up right.  Many people dont know, but there are a trifling few movies mixed in 7.1. Most are 5.1, there's a cool article about this on the Bryston website.

Anyway, He was asking me all about what gear I used.  I have a 15 year old preamp that I bought used for $300, made him choke. When I played a NOS clean record, it was crystal clear. The light bulb went off. I believe you have to reach these people! That is your target customer. They WANT quality, they are willing to spend the money but are misinformed and misdirected. So I think you dont even introduce your products at first, maybe draw them into a website that teaches them how accurate imaged stereo is really produced, teach them a few things about distortion and the ear, and then tell why you're engineering is so great.
 

Hope this helps your marketing. Im kind of a windbag arent I? If you would indulge me one question: I would like to learn about electronics. On Amazon, they have lists posted by user's such as "So you'd like to learn how to understand power amps, and put them together" with a list of books they recommend. Could you do the same for some of us who havent a clue as to what you guys are talking about when you post schematics. I'd like to learn.

[Eric H]

I think I agree with your general thoughts...  but I don't know much about marketing.  I do know I haven't picked up a Sterophile or similar magazine for decades, and I haven't heard of most of the audio websites mentioned in this thread, either.  When I took a look at them they didn't interest me - seemed like they were just a bunch of ads...  I ended up with my Clarinet and Cornet after reading posts at Audio Asylum and the info at hagtech.com.

As for books - I can make a strong recommendation for you: "Valve Amplifiers" by Morgan Jones is excellent.  He basically covers everything including basic tube operations, circuit design and analysis, DIY techniques.

[art]

See, if you want the truth, you have to talk to a Texan. Eventually.

Pat

[Occam]

....I myself dont like open tube or speaker grills, kids love to get electrocuted or poke holes in your drivers. So your cymbals would have to be real high. I'd like cages.....

Yes!!! Don't I know it.... About 10 years ago, I tried it with my sons. But after a while, my wife got really upset with me.

[hagtech]

Heartm8,

Wow, great post full of wisdom!  I'm going to have to read this several times myself.  Lots to digest.  Your comments are more insightful and interesting than anything I've read in Stereophile in a long time (and I like that rag).  

First, don't ever lose those Nestorovics.  They are true classics and sound great if you can still get the Tung Sols.  Disclaimer - I worked with Milo's son for many years, who himself is a genius, but didn't know it.

I'd love to have some Klipschorns.  I think the Cymbals would be the perfect match.  Sometimes I really like to crank it loud - and this combo would do it.  Alas, I have no rear corners in my listening room (don't ask).

Anyway, back to the subject.  Marketing is a black art itself, just like analog electronics.  I think the best text out there for electronics is the "Art of Electronics" by Horowitz and Hill.  

jh

[JohnR]

Jim, this one is probably a bit off the wall, but have you considered writing a book yourself? I doubt it's a recipe for a million dollar income but Rozenblit did it and it seems to have worked for him. You seem to have the knowledge and a consistent design philosophy that might work in a similar way.

[hagtech]

writing a book yourself?

Actually a great idea.  Just the thought of the extra workload gives me shivers.  Hard enough cranking out one article at a time.  Definately worth considering, though.  Something will have to give to make it happen.

jh

[DeadFish]

Hiyas!
I've been watching this thread grow, and wishing you the best of luck, but not knowing a suggestion to offer...  Well, the back of my head finally came around, and thought I'd offer something, if only as a 'cheerleader.'
 
Personally, as I see it, your best investment in your product Jim has been yourself.  You put 'you' into the design, and 'you' into the support, especially around here.  I hope you take all of the pat-on-the-backs seriously when someone gets around to posting on their experiences with your 'stuff'.
I know, I know, if this is your chosen baby to work, you want to see it grow, and anyone happy with your gear does too.  But, as I tend to get wordy, I might as well get right at it and explain myself and mine own story....  
I started getting interested in your products when I first noticed this circle last year (or more?) and acquiring my only-tube-friendly Altecs.  When I went to RMAF last year, I dutifully went room to room, looking for something that might like riding with the Altecs.  Found you sitting in your room alone, and that was the fun at RMAF for me last year, was finding the 'underappreciated' at a lull in traffic.  After most excellent conversation with you, listening to your whole stack with Ed's Horns, I was seriously baited.  When you offered Dark Side of the Moon on vinyl thru the trumpet, I had the hook in my mouth... (and more whenever I visited that floor and heard DSOTM echoing in the hall..)
Then, I had the good fortune to win the Clarinet pcb you so graciously donated to the show...  (another good investment!)  
Man, I'd swallowed the hook!  And just when it was going to be a coin toss between the Clarinet and the Foreplay II when I got back to Illinois..
Long story shorter, the great support and coddling as my Clarinet came together, and then it *working*, and life became much better living with the Altecs.  A year later, and I still have no reason to look elsewhere for a pre.  Lucky enough to be in the GAS circle, a few fellow GASsers have had the chance to hear the Clarinet and no one has been able to knock it.  In fact, it is loaned right now to someone that was living with a Foreplay II and my life had been too busy for listening.  But not for long, I hope...
Moving on, I just ordered the Cornet2 based on 1) what I read here, 2) what I read in reviews, 3) the excellence in design implementation on my Clarinet, 4) yours and everyone's hand-holding on the build, and 5) because I thought it was a damned good idea!  Like Bottlehead gear, your kits make a great instructional system that helps us 'know-nothings' grow and get involved.
The idea that you are going to send a Clarinet and CHIMEDAC around for folks to review is excellent way to give folks a 'taste', especially if you have some in local circles, like myself.  Fact is, I intend to do my best to make myself and the Chime available to GASsers when it comes to my neighborhood for its short stay.  Although I've listened to a lot of folks' DACs in the GAS group, I've never had any reason to stray from my long-in-the-tooth Theta unit.  Go ahead.  Give me a reason....
Well, once again, I'm not saying I have any NEW ideas for your advertising, but I wanted to underline that the investments that you have already made seem to have been intuitively in the right direction.
I hope some new ideas from this thread help you become 'comfortably numb' to the perils of being in business for yourself.
Best Regards, All Ways,
DeadFish

[analog97]

One thought more.  The ratio of built units/kits sold is important.  Coupled with the readership interests of different magazines and the ultimate ratio you would like to achieve, you might be able to more effectively "steer" your advertisements better. The current ratio, e.g. of 3kits/1built would also indicate the current pattern of your advertising.  If that ratio is fine, seek out similar avenues.  If you would like to change the ratio to reflect a proportionally higher profit margin, then go in a different direction.  If you want to keep the ratio as is, then equal balance could be applied to both numerator and denominator.   Perhaps you could consider adding a line or two to your web-site to get information about where the buyer heard of your products.  That info could be elicited on the order page and track things exactly.  You can, I believe take the history of your advertising and link that directly to the ratio above.  So, e.g. if 90% was in Stereophile, then it says they have a lot of "kit" readers.  It's obviously not that simple, but you obviously get my point.  

[BobM]

The ratio of built units/kits sold is important.  Coupled with the readership interests of different magazines and the ultimate ratio you would like to achieve, you might be able to more effectively "steer" your advertisements better. The current ratio, e.g. of 3kits/1built would also indicate the current pattern of your advertising.  If that ratio is fine, seek out similar avenues.  If you would like to change the ratio to reflect a proportionally higher profit margin, then go in a different direction ...

That triggers a real idea in my head. Why not do what many, many, many maufacturers do when they're looking to expand their sales base. Launch a second line and market it completely different than the DIY line you already have. Hell, you don't even need to sell it under the Hagerman name. It would be completely built and ready to plug in. Polished execution with audiophile quality cases and faceplates. You could easily double the prices for the esthetics alone and nobody would complain. The circuits could be the same, or you could bump it up a notch by building with boutique parts (or have a rgular and deluxe version even). Manufacturing could be a problem and you would likely need help in the shop to put them all together.

Could be a real launching pad for you, but please, please don't give up your day own job of desinging great circuits and offering truly high value to those of us not afraid of using a soldering iron.

Bob

[hagtech]

BobM,

Maybe you nailed it.  I've been working on such a possible new line.  Upmarket, fancy chassis.  Balanced circuits based on topologies from Trumpet.  Remote control.  New company name.  Yes, it has to be marketed completely separate from the regular Hagtech stuff.  Two websites, etc.  They can leverage off each other, but not mix.  

Now to figure out where I can get five foot thick faceplates...

jh

[art]

And end up in 2 swamps.

At least you will be in good company.

See you in the swamp.........!

Pat

[analog97]

So, things are still muddy without a solid business plan.  Building a balanced circuit phono stage with a more expensive chassis, assembled, based on the Trumpet is intended as a "Tweener" or something more costly than the Trumpet, say 3K?  The assembled units are now the Cornet2 ($1,000) and Trumpet ($2,000).  The unit you have just described sounds like it has the potential to dessimate both your Trumpet sales as well as the Cornet2 if marketed as a "tweener", say $1.5K.......better be careful.  Also, the reviewers are likely to compare this "new" phono stage to your Hagtech line.  I am not convinced that this new venture of marketing a high-end website is sound.  I would aim your current products directly at the all high-selling $1-$4k phono preamps.  Simple and straight forward.  I did this homework exercise before I got my Cornet2.  Anybody seen a picture of the inside of an EAR 834 and compared it to the Cornet2 guts, let alone some of them Trumpet guts?  I rest my case.

[heartm8]

I won an auction on Ebay for a Magnum Dynalab tuner. Well, when we went to settle up, it smelled fishy. The guy wanted a cashiers check sent to him, in care of a bank, not even a post office box. No phone no address.  Ah, yeah, sure, checks in the mail. Well, in the process of turning this crook in, I called Magnum Dynalab to verify this guy had the equipment or was a dealer. The owner said that he'd been fielding angry calls from guys before me who were swindled. So then we got to talking about business, and I asked his opinion of something to do with my then software business. He said he often relied on the online Harvard Business Review, where they have thousands upon thousands of examples of real life businesses and the situation, mistakes, and successes they had. Apparently, this is how Harvard MBA's are trained to solve problems, they look at other peoples mistakes. Well, he swore by it, and said get a subscription to the service. I never did, but you may want to Jim, because he is in exactly your same industry, and I think in the same nich, where good performance and good measurments arent mutually exclusive.  So maybe whatever he sees in it applies to your business too. Maybe you can get a free trial or something and download a ton of stuff to read later. Whatever, good luck. I do know to start a second line will require a lot of capital. Most new businesses fail due to lack of enough startup capital while making their goodwill.

[hagtech]

This won't be no "tweener".  It's a Trumpet on steroids.  Two phono inputs, MC and MM.  Adjustable loading and with step-ups.  New hybrid front-end I came up with that tackles a number of conflicting design issues (MC side).  Now add a fully differential linestage to boot with four more inputs.  Add discrete resistor motorized attenuators, remote control, LED display.  Put it all in one box with differential choke input power supplies.  Upgrade all parts.  Now you're looking at about eight grand retail via dealers.  

It's all in the numbers (the muddy business plans).  Compare the sale of one uber-trumpet versus fifty half-kits.  So haglabs will not compete with hagtech.  Half-kits will still continue to be a steal.  Two very different customer profiles.  

The middle ground will go to the invasion of new model Chinese imports.  Initially these will focus on fancy sculptured metal and wood work.  Great looking chassis at bargain prices.  People will gobble these up.  Shops will like them because of the extra profit from re-tubing.  Eventually, they might catch up on sonics.  But not innovation.  That's where the hole in market will be.  Regardless, it will be a blood bath for the next five years.  I see other established companies (CJ, BAT, AR, etc.) moving farther upmarket.  That will make a new hole at the $5k level.  Like you said, there are a lot of new machines in the $1k to $4k range.  Why would I want to compete head-to-head?  No, I will offer way more performance at a slightly higher price.  

jh