NUFORCE and VMPS speakers

John Casler · « **on:** 15 Aug 2005, 09:53 pm »

Many, if not most of you have been seeing the posts and threads about the new "NU-FORCE" amps.

I heard the amps a couple months ago and was quite impressed.

Last month, our VMPS friend Frank Alles (RM30 review in Stereo Times) reviewed the NU-FORCE 8's with his RM30's and pretty much said he had no idea that the RM30s could sound so good.

His review is found here:

http://www.stereotimes.com/amp071505.shtm

On top of everything else, I like things with "FORCE" in the title. I own a company called BIO-FORCE myself.

So I have taken on the line for all my VMPS clients who are interested in the amps.

I have yet to hear them in my system, and will offer a full report when I do.

So if any VMPS'ers are looking for a SUPER AMP with incredible performance to value, feel free to contact me for information and pricing.

CornellAlum · « **Reply #1 on:** 15 Aug 2005, 10:07 pm »

Looking forward to reading your comments John, as I wil be in the market very soon as I take my system in a new direction.

D------

Florian · « **Reply #2 on:** 15 Aug 2005, 10:23 pm »

I am interested too, i wanted to try a pair on my Apogee's but others have said that it didn work well at all. Thanks, that the VMPS are quite efficent.

-Flo

jimmyp58 · « **Reply #3 on:** 16 Aug 2005, 10:58 am »

Not to steal John's thunder (or FORCE) but I just became a NuForce dealer too. Anyone in the Greater Milwaukee, Wisconsin area interested in hearing these amps on my VMPS' are welcome.

I should be receiving my Ref. 9's by the end of August.

Jim

John Casler · « **Reply #4 on:** 25 Aug 2005, 05:01 pm »

As an update, I should have these for demo purposes in less than a week, so any who wish to hear them please give me a call.

"Special" Package pricing for VMPS speaker/amp packages available.

ScottMayo · « **Reply #5 on:** 25 Aug 2005, 06:00 pm »

Quote from: John Casler

As an update, I should have these for demo purposes in less than a week, so any who wish to hear them please give me a call.

"Special" Package pricing for VMPS speaker/amp packages available.

I'll be very interested in the review.

I've been watching Nuforce. They are making incredible claims, but when you look at the numbers, I start to have concerns. There is absolutely no reason why their design should start to roll off below 20Hz - that design should be capable of going to DC, pretty near flat. It doesn't, and that points to a shortcut, somewhere. Also, the noise numbers are, well, higher than I like to see. A good bit higher, in the midrange. On accurate and sensitive speakers, that's going to show up somehow.

There is clearly a lot the amp does right, and it's *really* hard to complain about the price. It would certainly make a stand-up subwoofer amp into a 4 ohm sub, running between 20-100Hz. And it will save on the electric bill. But I'd love to hear an unbiased owner put it head to head with the better analog amps and report some results...

John B · « **Reply #6 on:** 25 Aug 2005, 06:53 pm »

Quote

But I'd love to hear an unbiased owner put it head to head with the better analog amps and report some results...

Is there really such a creature?

Myself and a few members of the Audiophile Club I belong to will be comparing the 8B's to two very good tube amplifiers on Saturday. We'll be using them with two types of speakers, one is a 103db efficent single driver speaker, the other is a pair of reference monitors using Scan Speak drivers. Should get a pretty good idea of its performance from this I hope.

John Casler · « **Reply #7 on:** 26 Aug 2005, 12:21 am »

Quote from: ScottMayo

I'll be very interested in the review.

I've been watching Nuforce. They are making incredible claims, but when you look at the numbers, I start to have concerns. There is absolutely no reason why their design should start to roll off below 20Hz - that design should be capable of going to DC, pretty near flat. It doesn't, and that points to a shortcut, somewhere. Also, the noise numbers are, well, higher than I like to see. A good bit higher, in the midrange. On accurate and sensitive speakers, that's going to show up somehow.

...

Here is the answer from another thread:

Quote from: Casey

Ability to maintain composure in mid/treble despite heavy hitting bass is the result of switching amplifiers are immuned to 'Crowding Out' effect. For more information you can refer to the FAQ on our site. Switching device has 2 states (on and off), hence does not suffer from crowding out effect.

The 'roll-off' near 20Hz is due to our input cut-off filter to eliminate rumble and DC. We can roll off at much lower frequency, but that will offer other compromise, such as bigger and slower capacitor, or having to increase the 47K input R to 100K or higher, resulting in higher THD.

The damping factor is a function of output, not a function of input.

John Casler · « **Reply #8 on:** 26 Aug 2005, 12:33 am »

Quote from: John B

Quote
But I'd love to hear an unbiased owner put it head to head with the better analog amps and report some results...

Is there really such a creature?

Myself and a few members of the Audiophile Club I belong to will be comparing the 8B's to two very good tube amplifiers on Saturday. We'll be using them with two types of speakers, one is a 103db efficent single driver speaker, the other is a pair of reference monitors using Scan Speak drivers. Should get a pretty good idea of its performance from this I hope.

JB,

Looking forward to your report. I'll have 3 NuFORCE amps ealy next week, and will be able to "compare them" to the similarly powered Son's of Ampzilla.

I'm not sure if I am "biased" or not since I am a dealer for both, but if the NuFORCE even comes close to the Son's performance, I will consider it an incredible bargain.

Too bad you don't have a pair of loaded RM30's up their to add to the mix (but I guess we could fix that

)

John Casler · « **Reply #9 on:** 26 Aug 2005, 12:39 am »

I just noticed how close in "design flavor", my "BIO-FORCE" logo I designed several years ago, is to the NuFORCE logo

John B · « **Reply #10 on:** 26 Aug 2005, 02:54 am »

Quote

Too bad you don't have a pair of loaded RM30's up their to add to the mix (but I guess we could fix that )

Well, B had his chance when I asked him if he thought I might squeeze some more musicality out of my rig with a pair of 30's, but he felt I'd nailed it with his Dedicated sub and my little monitors

...of course feeling satisified is not in my nature...so I look forward to many "fixes" to come

Brian Cheney · « **Reply #11 on:** 26 Aug 2005, 03:44 am »

I thought John B's system sounded so good I told him to stop right there and leave well enough alone.

I'm an idiot.

rustydoglim · « **Reply #12 on:** 26 Aug 2005, 05:57 am »

Quote

But I'd love to hear an unbiased owner put it head to head with the better analog amps and report some results...

Actually, at some point before anyone becomes a dealers or customers, they were UNBIASED. Who would want to spend their hard earn money until they're convinced that it is good? Dealers would not want to carry our products until they are convinced too. In 6 months, we signed up dealers in 20 countries. We have done little advertisement. If we get only one or two positive reviews, that might be biased. But we have several awesome reveiws coming out at about the same. Oh, there are more to come.

As to why the amp sounded good, we think it is a combination of all the factors mentioned on our technology page. Optimizing one or two of those factors is not enough. To do well in all of them is tough. Some amps might have lower THD than NuFoce, but does it have zero phase shift, 4000 damping factor (at ALL frequencies!), 1Mhz close-loop error cancellation and a very straight FR?

jimmyp58 · « **Reply #13 on:** 26 Aug 2005, 01:15 pm »

We will be receiving our showroom amps early next week. We will be performing some great a/bs with different amps we have. We will report to the group our findings. I am prepared to be amazed but will certainly gather my team and report in an unbiased manner. I am confident Jason wouldn't want it any other way.

We'll be testing it out on my RM40's, LRC and RM30's.

Jim

WerTicus · « **Reply #14 on:** 26 Aug 2005, 01:25 pm »

this amp floor is geat, give them a listen.

John B · « **Reply #15 on:** 26 Aug 2005, 01:47 pm »

Quote

thought John B's system sounded so good I told him to stop right there and leave well enough alone.

I'm an idiot.

My Mrs. B thinks you're most wise to have given me that advice, and that I was very wise to have taken it. She will not suffer my upgraditis any more she tells me, and my "it's my job" bit, just isn't working as well as it used to

John Casler · « **Reply #16 on:** 26 Aug 2005, 01:52 pm »

Quote from: Brian Cheney

I thought John B's system sounded so good I told him to stop right there and leave well enough alone.

I'm an idiot.

I prescribe two 60 mg. softgel capsules of Gingko Biloba each morning along with your banana.

You'll be your old self in no time