[Brian Bunge]

I may be building a pair of these for a customer sometime soon.  If so, I'll post some pics then.  Last we talked, figured cherry was the veneer of choice!  My favorite!

[Al Garay]

Kevin,

Would the crossover need to be changed if the port is moved to the rear?

[Kyle R.]

More than likely not.  You may experience a bit more low end output from the wall reflection depending upon how close your speakers are but that can be controlled by speaker placement or crossover settings.

[Kevin P]

More than likely not.  You may experience a bit more low end output from the wall reflection depending upon how close your speakers are but that can be controlled by speaker placement or crossover settings.

There won't be anything changed in the crossover.   It's up around 800Hz and the port tuning is down around 30Hz so there isn't much that can be done in the crossover to effect change at or around port tuning outside of overall level changes.  

What you might get is different cabinet resonance issues and as Kyle says, it will load the room differently, but there is no real concern with porting them to the rear.

[Kyle R.]

Just to clarify a bit - when I mentioned "crossover settings" I meant from within your preamp/receiver itself and not from within the speaker crossover.  I just reread that and thought it may cause some confusion.

[Kevin P]

Ok... we are live with the 2641s now.   You can order them up from Kyle @ Acoustic Visions or from yours truly here:

Exodus Audio 2641

We came in at $395 each, which will probably jump $10 or so when we get PCBs for the kit.   I like PCBs.  

Take a look at the documentation for more measurements and crossover details.   I've taken the liberty of expanding on some of my design philosophy, which I touch on in this forum.   I'm going to work on an Exodus Audio Design FAQ, which will be a comprehensive look at why we design our loudspeakers the way that we do.   It's a long read but I'll post it once it gets finished.

I'll get some more pictures up of the finished speakers once we have some dressed up.  I'm a hopeless bare MDF builder who is more interested in the engineering than the looks.   Mine are bare MDF so that I can throw them in the back of the truck without any worries.  

Brian Bunge is building a pair and has promised to help with the cosmetics.   Thanks Brian!

I have to say these are our best effort to date.   These speakers just rock and with WIDE and smooth dispersion.   I really spent long hours tweaking the off-axis response and it paid off.   I know of no speaker I'd rather own at any price which is a big claim, but true for me.  

I'm updating some small tweaks in the instructions still that allow the builder to make some adjustments to the crossover for room conditions.   Basically, a level adjustment for the woofer network to compensate for near-wall placement and a top-end adjustment for very reflective rooms.   Both are pretty simple crossover adjustments that really add value for those willing to build their own speakers.   Just think... you won't have to buy $1000 cables to dial in your system to your room.  

A FAQ on room acoustics and speaker set-up will follow after the FAQ.   So much to do and so little time.

[guest1632]

Ok... we are live with the 2641s now.   You can order them up from Kyle @ Acoustic Visions or from yours truly here:

Exodus Audio 2641

We came in at $395 each, which will probably jump $10 or so when we get PCBs for the kit.   I like PCBs.  :-)

Take a look at the documentation for more measurements and crossover details.   I've taken the liberty of expanding on some of my design philosophy, which I touch on in thi ...

Hi Kevin, Well, does the price include cabinets? If not, how much for them? Thanks.

Ray

[bald]

That price does not include cabinets.

Also Kevin, just curious as to why the internal spacing of the bracing was changed compared to the preliminary plans that Kyle posted. I'm assuming it doesnt really make any difference, but the way you have it posted in the new 18 page 2641 document makes it look like the braces actually overlie some of the internal baffles inside roundover?

Also, I definitely plan on putting the 2641's very close (basically up against) the wall that has my front projection screen. Should I plan on doing the modified crossover you'll eventually post?

Anyway, anxiously awaiting receiving the kits!

bald

[kfr01]

Kevin:

Looking forward to receiving the kits.  

Question regarding the xo mod for the wall... This mod attenuates the woofer network?  How close is close to the wall?

[Kevin P]

Hi Kevin, Well, does the price include cabinets? If not, how much for them? Thanks.

Man... you guys are quick.  


At this time we don't offer cabinets for any of our kits.   We originally had plans to offer them for some of the smaller designs but that turned out to be more difficult than planned.  

Brian Bunge and Al Wooley have both built cabinets for our designs and both are outstanding guys to work with.   Brian sent me some pricing on the 2641 cabinets and he said the price with grills and standard veneers is $580/pr.   If you go out and price just the materials I think you will find that is a very attractive price for custom cabinet work.

I'm sure Al will update his web page to reflect his prices on the cabinets also.   He has them listed for most of our other designs.

Also Kevin, just curious as to why the internal spacing of the bracing was changed compared to the preliminary plans that Kyle posted. I'm assuming it doesnt really make any difference, but the way you have it posted in the new 18 page 2641 document makes it look like the braces actually overlie some of the internal baffles inside roundover?

Also, I definitely plan on putting the 2641's very close (basically up against) the wall that has my front projection screen. Should I plan on doing the modified crossover you'll eventually post?

Anyway, anxiously awaiting receiving the kits!

Thanks for the heads up.  I copied the old drawing into the PDF.   It's updated now.   The only reason to be concerned about spacing of the braces would be due to cabinet resonance issues.   I doubt it's audible but we space the braces so we don't get any of the internal voids of the same dimension.   Cabinet resonance is unavoidable but we can spread out the resonance by choosing odd sized internal spaces.   We don't have them pictured in the drawings but adding small horizontal braces (with extra 0.75" MDF of about 3" wide) across the internal cavities will break up the open area of the panels even more.   Space them at irregular intervals if you want to be really anal.    You will eat up a little cabinet volume but not enough to effect port tuning more than 1 Hz.  

I've also updated the PDF with some very basic crossover level modifications.   I've kept these simple for a good reason.... simple is good.     I don't have an easy answer for your room question.   Rooms and boundries vary so much that your going to have to give it the quick and dirty test.   Build your crossover so you can get to it and if you have too much boom I'll give you some additional recommendations.   Mine are going up right against the front wall also in the movie room.

Looking forward to receiving the kits.  

Question regarding the xo mod for the wall... This mod attenuates the woofer network? How close is close to the wall?

See above and download the PDF again.   It has more details.   I'm looking forward to you recieving it too.  

Everyone who is building them in this first batch I'd appriciate any feedback you have.  

Happy building!

[guest1632]

See above and download the PDF again.   It has more details.   I'm looking forward to you recieving it too.   :mrgreen:

Everyone who is building them in this first batch I'd appriciate any feedback you have.  

Happy building!

that's $580.00 per cabinet, I presume. Are the PCB gonna have the parts already soldered, and wires hanging off for each driver? Are you gonna mount the speaker terminals directly to the PCB? Would see some advantages in that aproach.  Oooh, what material inside are you suggesting? Maybe this black hole stuff, or will that be necessary.

Ray

[bald]

Brian Bunge and Al Wooley have both built cabinets for our designs and both are outstanding guys to work with. Brian sent me some pricing on the 2641 cabinets and he said the price with grills and standard veneers is $580/pr. If you go out and price just the materials I think you will find that is a very attractive price for custom cabinet work.

Kevin,
Hrm, I see what you're saying about the xovers. I'll probably start with std version, do some listening and take some measurements (rudimentary, but should serve the purpose). I'd prefer more bass than too little, but I know what it's like to be boomed out of a room, not desirable either.

How do you feel the 1014 will perform in taming any of that?

bald

[Kevin P]

See above and download the PDF again.   It has more details.   I'm looking forward to you recieving it too.  

Everyone who is building them in this first batch I'd appriciate any feedback you have.  

Happy building!

that's $580.00 per cabinet, I presume. Are the PCB gonna have the parts already soldered, and wires hanging off for each driver? Are you gonna mount the speaker terminals directly to the PCB? Would see some advantages in that aproach.  Oooh, what mat ...

You would have to check with Brian but I believe that was for a pair.   That would put a basically finished (outside of mounting drivers and and crossover assembly) pair of 2641s at under $1400/pr.     There isn't anything that I know of comparable at anywhere near that price in the commercial side of things and you would have a gorgous set of custom hand-made cabinets.

I'm not real fond of Black Hole.  It tends to create a vortex in your wallet.   It falls in the category of "audio tweak" in my opinion.   You would be better off using some rock wool or OC703 carefully placed inside the enclosure.   I've done some measurements with 3 lbs/cu.ft. density fiberglass (OC703) that shows it doesn't eat up cabinet volume like a Black hole material.   Black hole is dense enough that it could affect cabinet volume and port tuning.   If you want a more inert cabinet there are smarter and more cost effective ways of achieving it.   If you want internal sound absorption the OC703 and polyfill are more effective, partially because they can be spaced off the internal wall some distance where the air velocity is greater.   They work better off the wall for the same reasons that acoustic absorbers in a room are more effective when spaced a few inches from the room boundary.  

Kevin,
Hrm, I see what you're saying about the xovers. I'll probably start with std version, do some listening and take some measurements (rudimentary, but should serve the purpose). I'd prefer more bass than too little, but I know what it's like to be boomed out of a room, not desirable either.

How do you feel the 1014 will perform in taming any of that?

You know having a couple reference recordings I can do a pretty good seat of the pants listening test to get it roughly dialed in.   The problem with measuring the low frequency stuff is that it will change profoundly with room position.   The 1014 has a very simple EQ that doesn't have the resolution in the lower octaves to give you any meaningful control.   It will give you a rough level control though which can help but at the expense of overall less bass output.  

Ethan Winer's site has some good information on measuring the low frequency side of your room.   Here is a link where you can download his 1Hz increment test tones graph some measurements at your listening position using a simple Rat Shack SPL meter.  

Real Traps Test Tones

The best results with bass control are achieved with at least two bands of parametric EQ and good room treatment.   Both of these are topics I'll cover in my room acoustics article or you could read on Ethan's web site, which will go into much more detail than I'll cover.

[RAW]

Thanks Kevin
Yes I up loaded a few prices today as well as the 2641 painted in Textured black paint.

Think I may need more termainls soon

[Brian Bunge]

Kevin is correct.  That pricing was for a pair of cabinets in standard veneers (oak, maple, cherry, mahogany, etc.)  I'll post some pics of the LCR's I just did in birds eye maple later today hopefully.

[Kevin P]

Kevin is correct.  That pricing was for a pair of cabinets in standard veneers (oak, maple, cherry, mahogany, etc.)  I'll post some pics of the LCR's I just did in birds eye maple later today hopefully.

Hey... send me some pictures of those babies.   No coffee before snapping the shot!    

I really need some finished 2641 pictures.

[Brian Bunge]

Kevin,

I actually took them the other day.  I'll email them to you.  Not great pics, but better than raw MDF for sure!  I want to upload them to my server as well so that I don't have to send large files through my damn dial-up connection all the time.

EDIT:  I hope to be finalizing the details on a pair of 2641 cabinets for a customer today so I should have something to show off in a few weeks.

[Kyle R.]

Brian, I have the pictures uploaded on my server and shown here: http://forum.soundillusions.net/showthread.php?t=54273  If you want to grab the URL from there and show them here then that is fine.

[Kyle R.]

Ah nevermind...I'll just take care of it since I'm here

[Al Garay]

Nice job. Mine look similar with Mahogany veneer but no finish as of yet... too much work going on outside of hobbies. I'll take pictures when I'm back home this weekend.

Brian, what did you use for finish? Poly, oil?

thanks,

Al