Slim Devices an education

Louis O · « **on:** 6 Aug 2005, 04:44 pm »

Hi,

Just last Thursday I took a ride up to Vinnie’s to work out the details of the Lotus pre-amp and to hear the B200s. I also wanted to see and listen to the new Slim Devices. Vinnie had explained what it does and me being in the stone ages in regards to most things computer, I kind of got the idea of it. Seeing and hearing is believing. The Vinnie modded battery Squeezebox is amazing way to store and play music, but the sound is what really surprised me. I’ve heard a lot of CDPs and this is the real deal and wireless too. Considering the price and all the features, it’s an amazing value.

Thanks again Vinnie for having me up and it was great seeing you again and meeting Jen. I had a great time and learned a lot.

Talk to you soon,
Louie

Paul_Bui · « **Reply #1 on:** 6 Aug 2005, 08:32 pm »

Hi Louis,

You and Ron confirmed my belief in Vinnie making a good Slim Devices unit an awsome SB2. That it betters the prototype transport/Monica II (both battery powered) tells an awful lot. I am so excited waiting for The mod SB2 to arrive in 2 weeks. Thanks to Vinnie's step by step instructions my digital library has been steadily growing.

Dmason · « **Reply #2 on:** 6 Aug 2005, 09:29 pm »

The one thing in all this that REALLY got my attention was Ron's mention of it being clearly and immediately better sounding to him than Monica. I know Ron loves the sound of the Monica as much as I do. Soooo smooth, musically buttery, now he prefers the SB2 for its musicality. This really speaks to the talents of the SB2, in my mind.

I am drifting toward this new paradigm in sources.

Louis O · « **Reply #3 on:** 7 Aug 2005, 12:18 am »

If it could be made as an all in one unit, this would put it over the top.

As it is it's phenomenal. Hope to have it at the Denver show.

Talk to you soon,
Louis

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #4 on:** 7 Aug 2005, 08:53 pm »

Quote from: Louis O

If it could be made as an all in one unit, this would put it over the top.

As it is it's phenomenal. Hope to have it at the Denver show.

Talk to you soon,
Louis

Hi Louis,

Thanks for posting. I know you are not alone in being somewhat intimidated (but also impressed and interested) in this new technology that makes use of computers, but it really isn't much trouble to figure out. If you already know how to use a computer and post messages here, you can easily learn how to get started with an SB2

If it was difficult to use, Slim Devices wouldn't be selling so many SB2s as they are. They certainly have many happy SB2 customers, and a whole lot more to come...

More importantly, I wouldn't be wasting my time modding them if I didn't think they were 100% worth it. Once I finish modding the SB2s that have arrived, I will be looking very forward to hearing customer impressions!

I LOVE setting up a playlist and not having to keep getting up to change CDs, and I love easy access to my entire library, and heck, I love remote volume control too.

I will definite bring the Red Wine SB2 and Clari-T to the RMAF! You bring the B200 Aperiodics...

Marbles · « **Reply #5 on:** 7 Aug 2005, 10:37 pm »

Vinnie, I didn't see any pricing for your battery modded SQ2.

Do you know pricing and availability yet?

Will you have a demo model?

Thanks

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #6 on:** 7 Aug 2005, 10:47 pm »

Quote from: Marbles

Vinnie, I didn't see any pricing for your battery modded SQ2.

Do you know pricing and availability yet?

Will you have a demo model?

Thanks

Hi Marbles,

SB2 mods and pricing info can be found here:
http://www.redwineaudio.com/SB2_Mods.html

Availability is now.

I have no demos at this time...

Regards

powerbench · « **Reply #7 on:** 8 Aug 2005, 12:23 am »

Silly question but hey some us like poking around inside your head,what are the chances of an 'all in one unit'...gosh second thought if Slim Line was smart they hire you or agree on a true audiophile battery version of their unit (in one case) with a built in hard drive

maybe some retrograde design here (well that indeed would actually be a pc when you get right down to it)anyways I guess the question is a'' Red Wine All in One Box "a thought crossed your mine???Or hacking a SB2 to make it all fit really a cost effective option??

Take care Vinnie btw the Clari t is sounding great ,Louis should have my B200s next week and returned to me by a few days later , as i move up Sonic Red Wine/Omega Heaven...

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #8 on:** 8 Aug 2005, 02:22 am »

Quote from: powerbench

Silly question but hey some us like poking around inside your head,what are the chances of an 'all in one unit'...gosh second thought if Slim Line was smart they hire you or agree on a true audiophile battery version of their unit (in one case) with a built in hard drive maybe some retrograde design here (well that indeed would actually be a pc when you get right down to it)anyways I guess the question is a'' Red Wine All in One Box "a thought crossed your mine???Or hacking a SB2 to make it all f ...

Hi powerbench,

The 'all in one' idea is not silly, but I'm not sure if it is really necessary. The SB2 (with battery enclosure under it) + Clari-T + short pair of interconnects (1 foot will do) is already very small and minimalist. Putting everything into one enclosure gives less flexibility, which might make it less attractive. Maybe not?

I'm really happy to hear that you are enjoying your modded Clari-T and will be getting the Omega B200s soon. I recommend you tape on some padding under your chin before you listen to that combo!

Keep us posted!

Eli · « **Reply #9 on:** 8 Aug 2005, 02:56 am »

Quote from: Vinnie R.

The 'all in one' idea is not silly, but I'm not sure if it is really necessary. The SB2 (with battery enclosure under it) + Clari-T + short pair of interconnects (1 foot will do) is already very small and minimalist. Putting everything into one enclosure gives less flexibility, which might make it less attractive.

Much less flexible and less attractive to me. Leave the amp out, please. I'd consider a unit with battery PSU and SB2 guts and display in an attractive chassis, but certainly not with an amp in there as well.

Interestingly enough, a number of people in the Slim Devices forums have expressed interest in a unified SB2/amplifier for bedroom and kitchen and the like. Most aren't audiophiles, though, so you can't expect anyone to pay modder prices for such a thing.

shelt59 · « **Reply #10 on:** 8 Aug 2005, 12:59 pm »

Quote

I LOVE setting up a playlist and not having to keep getting up to change CDs, and I love easy access to my entire library, and heck, I love remote volume control too.

Not sure if this has been mentioned here before, but the SB1 and SB2 digital volume controls resample the output pretty aggressively.

To maintain "non-resampled" output, you must set the Slimserver software Player settings->audio->Digital Volume Control to "digital output is fixed (best analogue quality)".

Rich

Eli · « **Reply #11 on:** 8 Aug 2005, 06:10 pm »

Quote from: shelt59

Quote
I love remote volume control too.

Not sure if this has been mentioned here before, but the SB1 and SB2 digital volume controls resample the output pretty aggressively.

To maintain "non-resampled" output, you must set the Slimserver software Player settings->audio->Digital Volume Control to "digital output is fixed (best analogue quality)".

That was my understanding as well. The Squeezebox2 isn't a $3000 digital TacT Audio system, it's a $200 consumer product. It has a great deal of potential for the right set of modifications, but using the digital volume control may degrade the sound. But, as with all things, trust your ears. If you can't tell a difference between the SB2's digital volume control and that of a high quality analog one, then by all means use the digital. A modded SB2 with a very nice integrated amp is in the plans for my second system.

jhenderson010759 · « **Reply #12 on:** 9 Aug 2005, 04:50 am »

Totally incorrect.

The digital volume control on the SB2 and SB1 do NOT resample. Volume control is implemented via a scalar multiplication, in which all samples of the input stream are multiplied by a scale-factor which is proportional to the SlimServer volume setting. Full volume is a unity multiply; All other settings implement progressively-greater attenuation. In other words, SB implements a simple digital attenuator.

This algorithm rounds appropriately to +/- 1/2 LSB. Consequently, no distortion is introduced. SB2 maintains 24-bit, whereas SB1 employs 20-bit precision.

The SB2 attenuator is 100% bit-perfect and lossless for up to 48 dB of attenuation, whereas the SB1 is lossless for up to 24-bits of attenuation.

Paul_Bui · « **Reply #13 on:** 9 Aug 2005, 04:59 am »

Great information! That explains the superb sound that impressed SB2's, especially the mod SB2's users.

Thanks Jim.

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #14 on:** 9 Aug 2005, 12:48 pm »

Quote from: jhenderson010759

Totally incorrect.

The digital volume control on the SB2 and SB1 do NOT resample. Volume control is implemented via a scalar multiplication, in which all samples of the input stream are multiplied by a scale-factor which is proportional to the SlimServer volume setting. Full volume is a unity multiply; All other settings implement progressively-greater attenuation. In other words, SB implements a simple digital attenuator.

Exactly...SB2 has a 16-bit source feeding the volume control, which outputs 24-bits. That means you can go down to 1/256th of the volume level before you would "lose bits".

Based on my listening tests, the SB2's volume control sounds very good, and I prefer using it and feeding the output directly into a Clari-T (with no analog volume control) instead of using the fixed out of the SB2 and using a passive analog volume control before the amp.

In other words, the voltage output from the burr-brown dac of the of the modded SB2 is sent directly to the input of the amp (with an Auricap in the signal path). No opamp after the dac, no input select switches, no potentiometers.

In the end, we can all talk theory and why or why not one method should sound better than another, but the reality is in the listening, so YOU be the judge.

Bwanagreg · « **Reply #15 on:** 9 Aug 2005, 02:43 pm »

Regarding the digital volume control, are both the analogue and digital outputs attenuated? This would open up some intriguing bi-amp possibilities.

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #16 on:** 9 Aug 2005, 02:46 pm »

Quote from: Bwanagreg

Regarding the digital volume control, are both the analogue and digital outputs attenuated?

Yes, you can set it up so the digital output is either fixed or adjustable as well...

Bwanagreg · « **Reply #17 on:** 9 Aug 2005, 03:05 pm »

So just to make sure I understand, you could simultaneously control the volume level at the analgue outs (feeding your main amp-speakers) and the digital outputs, feeding say a Behringer DCX2496 digital crossover-eq and subwoofer amp(s).

Maybe I'm just getting caught up here, but this is pretty mind-boggling!

GHM · « **Reply #18 on:** 9 Aug 2005, 03:24 pm »

I auditioned a $10,000.00 wireless digital source hard drive about 6 months ago.The other equipment used with it was McIntosh MC1201 ($7500) a piece monoblocks, Dynaudio 1.3SE,Genelec active monitors($5000) Eggleston Andrea II ($20,000).

Hopefully the squeeze box sounds better because I just couldn't get used to that sound. It sounded artificial too me ..I really can't explain it. Everything sounded washed over. Not to take any steam out of the squeeze box I'm sure it's a great product for the right person. After this audition it has made me a little gun shy of some of this stuff. It sure seems like a cool idea though.

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #19 on:** 9 Aug 2005, 03:29 pm »

Quote from: GHM

I auditioned a $10,000.00 wireless digital source hard drive about 6 months ago.The other equipment used with it was McIntosh MC1201 ($7500) a piece monoblocks, Dynadio 1.3SE,Genelec active monitors($5000) Eggleston Andrea II ($20,000).

Hopefully the squeeze box sounds better because I just couldn't get used to that sound. It sounded artificial too me ..I really can't explain it. Everything sounded washed over. Not to take any steam out of the squeeze box I'm sure it's a great product for the right perso ...

GHM,

As always, it is all in the implementation....just like any other piece of equipment. Don't let a bad wireless ruin it for you.

Trust me, the SB2 is wireless done right!

Regards,