Omega B200 Aperiodic prototypes (long)....

powerbench · « **Reply #40 on:** 1 Aug 2005, 03:40 am »

Thanks Vinnie....

Louis O · « **Reply #41 on:** 1 Aug 2005, 04:44 pm »

Hi Vinnie,

Many thanks for posting about the Hemp vs. the B200. You’re right on with the sound and I can add that the HempTone speaker just rips with guitar and a bit more dynamic. The B200 are timing champs and more articulate. Almost like a Dr Jekyl MR. Hyde thing going on. For smaller rooms the B200 might have an edge.

Both are amazing and the best so far.

Hi JLM,

Costs on all the new speakers are a priority and I try my best to keep them as low as I can. Since I started, it's amazing how much costs on material have risen. Having the B200 as Factory direct with the Lotus makes it pretty easier for me to keep the prices low.

Hi Chris,

When I get the drivers in I would be happy to arrange something so you can hear the B200. This will be a lot of fun.

Talk to you soon,
Louis

Dmason · « **Reply #42 on:** 1 Aug 2005, 05:43 pm »

Vents can be easily sealed, and ports can be easily stuffed shut. Hmmmmmmmmm, I wonder about an Omega cabinet with ports AND vents and T nuts on the rebate for interchangeably mounting BOTH hemptone and B200 drivers, a sort of JumbOmega speaker.

.....

This could work, it would seem.

"Give the people what they want." --P.T. Barnum

Next, ToneTubby is now offering inexpensive hemp re-cones for JBL 2226 and EV15 bass speakers. They say the difference is night and day.

Now imagine a HempTone 15 inch 2226 JBL in an Omega alignment, something like a very small high efficiency horn/bandpass design, and the mains being fed a pure, jitter-free signal from the Mad mod SB2, into a ClariT, and being able to swap these drivers in less than two minutes

kbuzz3 · « **Reply #43 on:** 2 Aug 2005, 05:18 pm »

eeee....these new models make me and my alinco's feel so errr insignificant...

wonder how those fostex guys feel

Bwanagreg · « **Reply #44 on:** 2 Aug 2005, 06:17 pm »

Quote

wonder how those fostex guys feel

... like my whizzer is getting smaller all the time ...

skite30 · « **Reply #45 on:** 3 Aug 2005, 02:19 am »

A couple of questions about the visaton driver. I have been interested in if for awhile but was told it has a large peak in the midrange. Just wondering what Louis has done to rectify this. Also is it suitable for 3.5 watts or does it like more power to get going?

Dmason · « **Reply #46 on:** 3 Aug 2005, 02:30 am »

Skiite

Seen the plots, read the cautions ALL of which were written by those who never heard the driver, been through five pairs with another pair on the way: what the experts comment on does not bear out in practice. On OB, they are incredibly balanced, the best musical balance of ANY driver I have yet heard, heard plenty, owned plenty, and have been studying them through good ol' purchase n use, for the last two years. I have spent thousands looking into wide range drivers, and the B200 are without compare, thus far.

Sounds like they work pretty well in an aperiodic alignment based on what I have read. Louis would not have released the finished speaker otherwise, and Louis is not into corrective surgery, understanding that it defeats the purpose of, and quality gained by direct coupling, crossoverless systems.

Run direct, the driver has never needed any signal surgery in my experience, having recently completed commissions for five full range open baffle systems with the B200 as mains for friends, and they are mad about their new speaker systems . Hopefully this will serve to extinguish your needless concerns here. They are great. Get some!!

skite30 · « **Reply #47 on:** 3 Aug 2005, 01:03 pm »

Dmason
Appreciate your response and you have gone a lone way to allay my fears. What size open baffle did you use for them? I'm not sure I have a large enough room for an open baffle but am intrigued by them. That's one reason I'm so interested by Louis's aperiodic design.
thanks skite30

mcgsxr · « **Reply #48 on:** 3 Aug 2005, 01:22 pm »

Skite - I am running a pair of these on 44x36 baffles, hinged in 2 places, so that they fold. I know that some have reported great results on baffles as small as 12 inches wide, if attached to a wall on one side, and subs employed.

This thread might be of great use to you, if you are considering a set of the b200's... lots of folks exchanged ideas there, and I have posted pics of the two different baffles I have tried.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=19253

I am working (planning actually) on a 3rd variant, for use in my new home, but I too have looked long and hard at that aperiodic cabinet recently unveiled.

skite30 · « **Reply #49 on:** 3 Aug 2005, 06:38 pm »

Dmason
Thanks for the link, I had missed that one. Looks like hours of enjoyable reading.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #50 on:** 3 Aug 2005, 06:51 pm »

It will be a long read, but will cover a lot of ground, and addresses many of the issues that people seeking to use the b200 in OB may encounter.

It is a great archive for folks interested in this driver, for a DIY alternative to the design listed here.

Having heard this OB design in my own room, I am really interested in how the aperiodic cabinet sounds, but at the moment am on the fence.

powerbench · « **Reply #51 on:** 3 Aug 2005, 07:18 pm »

Mark if they are ready ill certainly bring them down later this month...for our audition....from what louis said they should be ready by next week

mcgsxr · « **Reply #52 on:** 4 Aug 2005, 02:37 am »

That would be an awesome day, if we could put the Visaton OB and Aperiodics in the same room, a Clari-T, the little JVC I have been using, and my main rig of the Nak/Monarchy/Mensa/Hagerman Clarinet/Bolder Teac all in the same room, and see what happens!

Hope those cabinets travel well from the States, and arrive in time!

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #53 on:** 4 Aug 2005, 03:07 am »

Quote from: mcgsxr

That would be an awesome day, if we could put the Visaton OB and Aperiodics in the same room, a Clari-T, the little JVC I have been using, and my main rig of the Nak/Monarchy/Mensa/Hagerman Clarinet/Bolder Teac all in the same room, and see what happens!
quote]

Hi Mark,

I hope powerbench will get the Omega B200s in time. Powered by his custom Clari-T, you'll get a big ol' taste of speed, resolution, dynamics, and all that good stuff!

I'd also love to hear your impressions of them powered by your new JVC all-in-one...

Regards,

powerbench · « **Reply #54 on:** 4 Aug 2005, 03:14 am »

Hope it works out ...Im sure Louis will do what we can,if not that day soon after

JohnR · « **Reply #55 on:** 4 Aug 2005, 04:28 am »

I wonder whether perhaps someone here might have a less dismissive answer than DMason's, to the question about the frequency response (and, for that matter, sensitivity). Louis?

powerbench · « **Reply #56 on:** 4 Aug 2005, 01:06 pm »

Speaker Specifications:from the website...

Sensitivity: 95dB
Impedance: 6-ohms
Driver: 8” full range Visaton B200, with custom modified backwaves and basket tweaks
Freq response: 52Hz – 18K
Power requirement : as little as 2 watts
Cross-over : None
Warranty 10 year parts and labor for workmanship and defects
Weight : 35 pounds each

there are driver specs on the Visaton site but I am sure your asking about the in-cabinet room measurements...correct...??

konut · « **Reply #57 on:** 4 Aug 2005, 01:51 pm »

Quote from: JohnR

I wonder whether perhaps someone here might have a less dismissive answer than DMason's, to the question about the frequency response (and, for that matter, sensitivity). Louis?

At first I was somewhat perturbed at this statement about the FR question, as I thought Dmason gave a pretty detailed response. Usually I ignore statements like this as I find that responding with an arguementative bent results in a circle of diminishing returns. But it got me thinking about the human perception and what MIGHT be going on here.
It has been my experience that different materials result in different perception of distinct presentations of the various frequency bands. For example, there are opinions about the sound of different materials used in the construction woofer cones. Kevlar, carbon fiber, paper, hemp polyglass, and metal all have their various strenghts and weaknesses based on the mass to stiffness ratios and their ability to suppress and control out of band resonances. Some of these perceptions can be confirmed and quantified with impulse response and distortion measurements. Of course shape of the cone, basket materials, and design, and a myriad of other varibles enter into the equation. It is also the case with tweeters as I'm sure you've all heard differences in the presentations of domes, inverted domes, horns, compression drivers, and the different materials used in their construction such as aluminum, titanium, magnesium, silk, and even paper.
With the B200, as reveled in the monster Darkstar thread on page 7 http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=19253&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=darkstar&start=60 , the material used in the cone is hemp fiber. The dust cap also appears to be hemp as well. I suspect the unique properties of this material are what give this driver its percieved smoothness and eveness of presentation as noted by almost everyone that has heard it, be it open baffle or aperiodic loading. You may not be aware of the magical properties of hemp.

If you don't already have one, I suggest you aquire a Mach II Tympano-cochleometer( I LOVE that) to confirm it for yourself!
The stated sensitivity of the Omega B200 Aperiodic is 95db as noted on the Redwine Audio page devoted to this speaker. Looking forward to Louis response as well.

powerbench · « **Reply #58 on:** 4 Aug 2005, 03:49 pm »

Well personally I dont get too excited what goes on here re;opinions etc...there is often a 'variation' between conotation and denotation in posts ( what people write and actually mean ,and then there is your own interpetation of posts).
I can appreciate the question,the specs and all the goobly gook which gets tossed around in audiophilia .
I like to trust my ears,see if I really enjoy the speakers not just the specs. ...there are alot of products and sellers out there ,the funny thing is I trust Vinnie and Louis with their own perceptions,dialogue and skill....so if I was going to invest in something longterm and take a gamble on

it will be the guy who I know isnt going to screw me over for a few bucks.

Louis and Vinnie are really cool nice guys. FYI I could probably construct my own cabinets etc ,but what i am buying here with Louis is decades of his own experience. Louis goes to the big shows,has made hundreds of speakers and listens to his customers.

He is a virtual ' one man show' and obviously good enough to pay the bills. I admire that .Alot of shops get to big too fast and eventually fold because of it.To me he has the formula of success.If not he has no lunch money.

I can venture in spending dozens of hours and try to copy something similair to his designs but I doubt I would be able to imitate what Louis can do, even in a rough box.I have worked constuction and am very knowledgable with tools. Speakers to me are not just a matter of box building but of synergy and art.There are alot of components that need critical placement,dampening and modification.If something is a little off or not perfect I know the end result would be missing.

I am not criticizing you DYI guys out there. I am all for saving a few bucks with a hobby but I well aware of my own abilities. So its all a matter of personal choice. I am also not one to jump on the 'Newest product bandwagon' either. The thing with Louis is I 'know' he doesn't spit out his products without some thought.

To me thats what important

trusting those you can trust....not just how flat the frequency curve is.....

I am happy with the Mini me but i may sell ithem ,if not they will be hooked to my pc for a futre endeavor .Since the B200s cost roughly 10x as much as the Minime's I am looking forward too much more.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #59 on:** 4 Aug 2005, 05:24 pm »

Well, the math and science vs human experience versions of how things work or sound, is a long, storied, and muddy trail. Lots of folks on both sides of that equation.

For me, I looked at the FR plots, and expressed some concern. When I first assembled the OB b200's I was using them with my Hagerman pre, and Bolder modded Teac. Unbroken in, the system was really bright, and quite reflective of the FR plots. Over the last 2-3 months, this has changed remarkably - driver break in? Not sure, don't care.

Using the JVC EX A1 with the b200's, the sound is rich and full, with only +1 on the bass through the unit, no loudness button or anything. I would estimate bass down to 80-90Hz this way, which makes sense given the OB implementation that I am using.

So, I find that the FR plots are not accurate for a broken in driver.

Scientifically I don't have a clue, but subjectively, these are doing it for me. I look forward to hearing the Aperiodic implementation when powerbench visits, and we can do a direct A/B in my room.

I would say that experimentation is the key here, and some will be held back by the FR plots. Others will push past that, and find out what the fuss is about, or not. I fall into the second camp over here...

So be it.