The grass is always greener...

Bemopti123 · « **Reply #20 on:** 21 Jul 2005, 01:15 am »

I wonder what the FTA-2000 sounds like with the battery powered Teac. If what I am hearing now is excellent, is there are better word than excellent?

Unless one hears what these red wood sized "trunks" do, many will really really be surprised with the density or robustness of sound that comes from a pair of super heavy weight 8" alnico drivers.

How is the sound quality of the Teac as it is with the FTA-2000s?

Do you have a tweeter in the system? I have seen some people do extend the HF with the aid of one. I wonder if it is not an overkill, because these go really far up. I dot miss my softdomed Gershman Acoustic three ways at all.

Paul
Another in the FTA camp here in NY.

Doc Jr 8156 · « **Reply #21 on:** 21 Jul 2005, 02:46 am »

Just to chime in. I have the FTA2000 (Bob Brines cabinet) powered with Nuforce 8b monos and this combo is the best I heard. I used 2 Sonic Impact amps, a 40 watt PP tube amp, 20 watt 6Bq5 based amp, 40 watt Mc Intosh, 2 300B stereo amps, Odyssey Stratos, Odyssey Stratos with cap upgrade, Odyssey monos, Odyssey Stratos Extreme and nothing sounded like the Nuforce. Even the Odyssey monos and Extremes were incapable of the bass prowess and bass clarity that the Nuforce provided. For those owners of the FT2000A try a powerful PWM/Switching amp and compare to whatever you have right now, I believe your satisfaction will be realized.

PS - I also tried the Nuforce with my 168EZ horn, Bozak 301s, Bozak CM 2002 and JBL monitors. Everything sounded beautiful. Enjoy.

Godspeed.

Dmason · « **Reply #22 on:** 21 Jul 2005, 02:51 am »

I agree with docjr. When I got the F200A I was powering them with a 100 watt Carver Pro ZR500 fed clean, regenerated AC from a Hoeschler medical equipment power supply unit, and MAN did those things then come alive. They also really liked tube pre amps. Something about AlNiCo magnets and tubes, Gizmo was right.

Trust me though, the Teac does a very, very serviceable job to say the very, very least. We're tryin to stay off the grid here in the Cult of the Battery, in the Land of the Openly Baffled.

I would love to hear more about the Nuforce amps with the Sig's. Please tell us more and how you like the Sigs in the Rx horn.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #23 on:** 21 Jul 2005, 03:23 am »

Quote from: Bemopti123

I am trying to get Vinnie Rossi to bring this OB B200s to the up and coming Audio Rave this Saturday. I am really curious about these drivers. I heard he was making something with them. Let's see.

Paul

Paul,

Chris[/list:u]

JLM · « **Reply #24 on:** 21 Jul 2005, 05:18 pm »

Paul,

I don't have a supertweeter on board (guess my 48 year old ears don't need them as I or my 30/40 something friends really haven't missed any highs).

Until I tried the Teac I would have said that the Clari-T offered clarity, blackness, speed, very good bass range/depth, excellent bass control, and more than adequate spls in my 1700 cu. ft. room, even though I measured response down 8 dB from 30 - 50 Hz. Remember that the Clari-T had bettered SETs, push-pulls, and various solid state amps in everything but ultimate output from the larger amps. Yet I sensed (and the numbers support) that more power would be beneficial.

My five minutes with the Teac (we're moving and without a pre-amp the small volume pots on the back are miserable for routine use) blew away the bass range/depth and ultimate spl from the little Clari-T. But the stock Teac was noisy (especially being spoiled with the Clari-T). Others report that 100 - 130 hours of use will help quiet it down and that Vinnie's mods takes care of all the noise. Ultimately however the Clari-T is supposed to sound a wee bit better on the mid/highs. OTOH the gob-smacking bass from the Teac turns these other concerns into mere quibbles.

For $1000 less (not including power cords and conditioners) and gaining battery blackness, I'll give the Vinnie modded Teac a try versus the NuForce amps (the Teac's 30 watts should produce 104 dB in my room which should be plenty for me, YMMV).

Paul_Bui · « **Reply #25 on:** 21 Jul 2005, 07:19 pm »

Hi Jeff,

I ordered the TEAC for Vinnie's mod then canceled it. Instead I sent the monoblock Clari-Ts for the Auricap upgrade and didn't regret. In fact I'm so glad I did. The upgraded amps came back on Monday, so today's the 4th day they have been playing in my room, a few hours each day.

I haven't heard the 30w TEAC, but the Auricap upgrade let me not wanting for more bass from the FTA2000s. I am listening to Caroline Lavelle's Spirit CD, and every track reminds me of the days I had my REL subs hooked up to the mains, which by the way were not the same as FTA2000s. Although volume level doesn't need to be high, I can feel the bass and enjoy the mids and highs which are MUCH clearer now. More specifically, mids are more fleshed out and highs are sweeter, more detailed.

Vinnie said that I will be very happy with the Auricap upgrade, that not only the bass but also the mids and highs will improve. Boy was he so right! Thanks Vinnie for not only providing great products and services but also valuable, honest information and tips.

Dmason · « **Reply #26 on:** 21 Jul 2005, 08:02 pm »

Paul

That is very impressive and good to know, congrats on the results, I know how much you are enjoying the nightly concerts in your den of iniquity. The highs of the ClariT stand alone in the field, IMHO, and the fact that the phat Auricaps provide enough capacitance to allow the little TA2024 to really grip the ~somewhat sluggish F200A, (89db measured) means you have a direct-coupled amp/speaker situation that is about as good as it gets, it's really very tasty. Nice to know the ClariT CAN do that.

Perhaps Vinnie can soon comment on how the full-blown ClariT does with the Visaton B200's on the OB and also the 56L aperiodic load coming soon. One thing's fo shoo: we are all getting some pretty amazing sounds these days it seems.

JLM · « **Reply #27 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 10:38 am »

Paul Bui,

What pre-amp are you using and were you using it before? I ask because the latest 6moons review points the way to another level in performance by adding a tubed pre-amp to seemingly the very amp you now have.

Thanks for the news, but now you're swaying me into uncertainty. I know we've been trading advice on gear the last few months and we've both benefitted, and I certainly value your thoughts. What tears me is your accounts versus the my amazing but brief taste of the stock Teac and the raw numbers (speaker efficiency and rated amp output) convince me that the 6 wpc just isn't enough juice. This is the same primary concern I had with the Clari-T originally and now that I've heard the Teac it still haunts me everytime I listen to the Clari-T/FTA-2000 combo.

I will admit that the amazingly mighty digital watts do seem to go far enough in a 2,000 cu. ft. room with the FTA-2000s for my taste and somehow this 6 wpc amp has a commanding grip on the speakers (IMO a prequisite for proper amp/speaker matching). Once we move into the new place, I'll break the Teac in while the Clari-T goes back to Vinnie for input sensitivity adjustment, general checkup, and Auricaps before comparing for myself.

I appreciate all the advice you, Dan, and Mark have provided, but I need to hear it for myself.

Dmason · « **Reply #28 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 01:05 pm »

It sounds to me like the addition of better capacitance allows the ClariT so much the better grip. I would go that route and see for yourself simply because the highs are soooooooooooooooooo good. Alittle more "rounded" which is good news to the metal dustcap of the Fostex, which is really a latter day improved clone of the JBL LE8 which came out in the early 70's and is not nearly as wide range as the Fostex, which is pretty much worth of the moniker, "full range'. I think it is a wise choice to attempt to maintain the ClariT as the amp. The hotrod Teac is a true WunderAmp, but I fear due to increased complexity of the ampchip/and pre amp chip combo, secondary PSU, it will not be the equal of the ClariT in terms of that otherworldly sparkle and instrument separation, and beguiling pseudothermionic

presentation. But I digress. Perhaps it will suck relative to your listening SPL's, and then you will have to $end in the Teac as well.

Paul,

A good tube pre amp almost always warms and opens up the sound. If you are considering a tube pre amp, think about ones using full size dual triode Octal tubes. The sonic these tubes impart, along with T amps has to be heard to be understood. The word "decadent" came to my mind when I heard the SInglepower 6sn7 based head amp into the ClariT, the Teac and also the Bolder 2020 based set. Any 12A-- and I would say highly optional, especially compared to how Octals combine. Dr Peppard at Mapletree has a really nice Less=More qualified unit, the 2A, right here on AC. Or the Rolls Royce of Octal pre amps, the deHavilland Verve series, which I am considering.

Paul_Bui · « **Reply #29 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 03:50 pm »

Jeff,

I am using the Shanling SCD200 CDP outputs directly to the amps sans preamp. The Shanling has its own volume control, ranging from -99 to +2.5, with 0.5 increment on each step. I have listened to both SS and tube stages of this machine through headphones and decided to stick with tubes. When I had the stock ClariT, volume level needed to be maxed out quite often (0, +1.0, +2.0, +2.5), and I still wanted more.

After I moved to monoblocks with Black Gate caps, I found myself listening at -20s with more satisfaction. I guess it's either the increased "perceived" power and stereo separation thanks to monoblocking or the heightened clarity thanks to BG caps, or both.

Now that I have had the Auricaps upgraded for 5 working days, listening to the amps only a few hours a day, I am literally re-covering my CD library. Playing music at daytime while lying down in bed (the setup is in my fairly large bedroom - don't laugh!!), with certainty that no one else in the house, I found myself sitting up, looking around, wondering if someone coming home or there's any burglar.

A quick STOP on the remote control told me all. The culprit was the sound coming from the system I was playing. And I am taking about very conventional, non audiophile CDs that I had been not impressed with, either sonically or musically. Now they're just the opposite. The spookiness effect doesn't take place with every CD, mind you, but it tends to happen with either more complex music like orchestral ones or pure recordings. I think it has to do with the increased resolution, broader bandwidth, more extended ends, clearer midrange, or all of those.

I would send the stock ClariT or Teac or both for upgrades. Once you hear them on steroids your uncertainty will be swept out forever.

Dan,

The above said, I would probably try the mod Teac for a second amp, just to taste the bass grip that Jeff has experienced. Until then, I will continue to enjoy the little monos that never stop to impress me with their ability to grip the FTA2000s and the delicious highs. However, I also trust the Maestro Vinnie and perhaps will also go with a Monica II DAC/DACT active preamp soon, with his BP transport on the horizon.

Thank you both Jeff and Dan. You don't know how much you have positively influenced me in enjoyment of this hobby, which seems to get me closer and closer to the audio truth.

Dmason · « **Reply #30 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 04:23 pm »

Paul

Having said my bit about dual triode Octal tubes, I am more inclined to try the active DaCT linestage to get the extraordinary Monica II up to 2V, effectively doubling the output of the ClariT, and also adding the Auricaps coupling caps. The synergy between the ClariT and Monica is what makes me uninterested in audio equipment any more, and a good hot output will allow the AUricaps and Black Gates in the mix to light up to their abilities.

All this will exist within the same box with a signal path of about six inches, with the Reali-T-Amp =

Paul_Bui · « **Reply #31 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 04:30 pm »

A 6 inches of signal path...makes me drooling.

Dmason · « **Reply #32 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 04:39 pm »

How many people have source + pre amp + amplifier out to the speaker terminals, with a SIX inch signal path?? The difference in sound when you SUBTRACT > ADD.

All this is direct-coupled to the Visaton B200's in the DarkStar open baffles, and has a line out to the bass amp. Vinnie and I invented my stereo system.

LESS = MORE

GHM · « **Reply #33 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 04:50 pm »

I couldn't resist trying a pair of the Bob Brines FTA 2000s. So I bought a pair. Hopefully I will get them this coming week. I can't wait to hear what all the fuss is about. These single driver speakers are going to make me go broke!

But I'm truly addicted to their sound now. I just can't get enough. I don't even look at multi driver speakers anymore. I really don't have any interest in them. My FTA 2000s also have the correction circuits installed. I can't wait to hear them!

Dmason · « **Reply #34 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 05:03 pm »

Gymane

Then when you really want to hear what they can do warts and all, remove the "correction" circuit and gain the advantage of direct-coupled amplification. The sound is so good you should think about EQ'ing in the digital domain, where it belongs.

You sir, are in for a treat.

fabaudio · « **Reply #35 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 06:10 pm »

Quote from: GHM

I couldn't resist trying a pair of the Bob Brines FTA 2000s. So I bought a pair. Hopefully I will get them this coming week. I can't wait to hear what all the fuss is about. These single driver speakers are going to make me go broke! But I'm truly addicted to their sound now. I just can't get enough. I don't even look at multi driver speakers anymore. I really don't have any interest in them. My FTA 2000s also have the correction circuits installed. I can't wait to hear them!

"Listenning" to guys like Dmason got me into single crossoverless drivers. I sold my highly regarded multi driver floorstanders ( which BTW I liked) and bought a used pair of Omega TS 3's to get a taste of Fostexes on the cheap and all I can say is WOW! I can just imagine what the larger ones like F200A and Visaton 200's sound like. My current 2 ch system - Pioneer 578 A , Monica 2 dac , JVC RX-F10 , TS 3's and a pair of Energy EX 8 subwoofers(bought used) is well under a grand. The fun is back in our hobby. Stereophile and The Absolute Sound are mere decorations on my coffee table.

GHM · « **Reply #36 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 07:00 pm »

D I will certainly give it a go with the circuit removed. EQ in the digital domain sounds like a winner too! From what JLM also tells me I'm in for some serious fun!

Fab ..D mason and the crew are like devil advocates

for single driver based speakers and simplicity. Man ..they sure can get you in a lot of trouble

. I have a miniature D mason on one shoulder and a JLM on the other whispering in my ears! :

MttBsh · « **Reply #37 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 08:10 pm »

Paul,

Funny you should mention the sitting up in bed episode, wondering if there was a burglar in the house. I also have the dual mono Clari-T with Dact linestage, blackgates/auricaps and was listening to a relatively quiet passage of an excellent live recording the other night when my phone rang, so I turned down the music to answer. You guessed it, no one was there, and when I relistened to the recording, sure enough someone's cell phone in the audience rang. There's been a number of times when I've had to turn the sound down because I thought something was moving in my living room... the clarity from this amp is amazing.

Matt

JLM · « **Reply #38 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 09:12 pm »

The circuit Bob supplies with the FTA-2000 is quite simple (iron core inductor, resistor, and cap) so even though I'm a "simplier the better" kind of guy it doesn't bother me to use it. Initially I did use it, but the 12 wpc push-pull Decware Torii I was auditioning exagerated the bass to the point that it was better without. For the next several months the speakers were pushed way too close to the rear wall (due to domestic issues) so the circuit stayed out. Then I changed cables and the circuit (in it very raw form - Bob is a typical "speaker guy") wouldn't connect (bare wire to bananas) so they stayed out. Now we're a month away from moving and I'm too busy/lazy to do anything about it until I get into the new listening room. But I'd definately try the circuit before spending $$ on digital EQ plus another cable.

The biggest trouble with the FTA-2000 is resale value as they're such an unknown. But as others have compared them to $3500 - 5000 speakers its worth the gamble IMO and you'd lose less selling them than something at 3 times the price. But I agree, I now snub multiple driver designs, having heard the natural coherence and active (one driver - one amp) adavantages of a single driver.

Beyond the Fostex F200A driver, I'm only a "single driver guy" in theory. What most call "full range" I call "extended range". While I hate the marketing hype behind the 20 - 20,000 Hz mantra, most of these drivers are really only cover 8 octaves, while the F200A in Bob's FTA-2000 implementation covers 9.5 octaves (30 - 20,000 Hz), enough for music. IMO 95% of all music is in the 8 octave 40 - 10,000 Hz range. Understand that without the F200A I'd still use a whizzerless extended range driver, as the concept of single point source without crossover overwhelms any concerns other express IMO. Those concerns usually involve lack of ultimate output and beaming. 100 dB peaks is enough for me, YMMV, and most extended range drivers (like the B200) can handle that. Beaming occurs above 4000 Hz in 8 inch drivers and 8000 Hz in 4 inch drivers. For my 8 inch F200A, its only noticable on music when you're more than 20 degrees off axis. Beaming can be your friend as it reduces room interaction and can be used to tune highs be aiming the speaker. Remember we're only talking about the top one or two audible octaves.

I like the TS3, but prefer the Super 3s. But they use the $37 Fostex FE127E drivers. The Fostex F200A cost ten times that. Certainly we're into the point of dimishing returns, but good speakers start with good drivers and it would be foolish to think the FE127E comparable to the FE127E. When the cost of stands and sub is factored in with the TS3 or Super 3, the FTA-2000 are cheap. If you want to stay with higher efficiencies Bob offers a FT-1600 Mk II that reaches under 40 Hz at 95 dB/w/m for $895 using another Fostex FE167E driver.

I like the idea of a short signal path, but it also seems that tubes make a very worthwhile improvement with both Fostex drivers, AlNiCo magnets (like the F200A has), and digital amps. That will preclude integration of DAC and integrated amp and unfortunately add complexity.

GHM · « **Reply #39 on:** 23 Jul 2005, 11:29 pm »

Thanks JLM for the info. How do you guys tow your FTA 2000s? Are they crossed behind you or in front of you ? I don't listen past 85 db on the dynamic passages in certain recordings. I sit 10 feet from the speakers. The FTAs should work just fine for my taste. I would like to keep my hearing as long as possible. The circuit I've been told is quite simple. It uses a Alpha air core inductor , Mills resistor and a Hovland capacitor. It was $100 extra for the upgraded parts in the correction circuit.
Also are the Fostex 200a drivers magnetically shielded?
TIA