[rmihai0]

Hi all,
I need your advise to upgrade my preamp. My speakers are Ellis 1801b and the power amp is Van Alstine's latest incarnation of Dynaco ST 70 - the Ultimate ST70.

I do not have preferences regarding tubes or SS. I do not care about a phono stage either, as long as I am using a separate phono stage with its separate power supply.

My budget: $1100 - $1200 (for a used one).

I was considering a Supratek, or a Bent NOH. From the more commercial stuff I was thinking to Rotel RC-1090, Vincent/Shanling SA-T1, Cyrus PreX and Linn Kairn.

I use to be a bass guitar player in a progressive rock band - so I love the lows to be properly presented: dynamics, transients, slam and tightness - ALL should be there.

Also, I do not like harsh and strident highs and lows.

I need at least 4 inputs (preferable 6) and just one unbalanced output.

Thank you for your help.

[Bemopti123]

You forgot a superb contender at the price range, First Sound Presence Deluxe MKI or MKII.  MKI can be found around $1500-1300 price range, the MKII, around $2400.  Neutral yet not cold, dynamic with great pace that many preamps cannot even follow.  Oh, just 4 tubes instead of tons.  The OA2 tubes cost around $10 a pair and the other tubes, a 6922 or ECC88 or equivalent, a dream for tube rollers.  Built like a battleship.  

Paul

[toobluvr]

Look in on  the JuicyMusic offerings:

http://juicymusicaudio.com/

You can get a refurbished Peach trade-in for under 1k!

While I haven't heard the Peach, I do own the Blueberry Xtreme.
I have heard many preamps costing multiples more that don't perform better.

The sound is refined, liquid, spacious, detailed and organic.  The balanced presentation is one of clarity and ease.  Most importantly, it's engaging character pulls you into the music, plants your butt on the chair,  and invites hours of fatigue-free listening.

I concur wholeheartedly with this reviewer:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/juicymusic/blueberry.html

He nails the essence of the unit.

I think the Peach line section is the same...possibly better...since it offers different options on the output.

It employs very few tubes so it is simple and cheap to roll.
The BB is quite receptive to tube rolling.
Matter of fact, I've never experienced a piece of gear that so readily informs of a tube's true character, and highlights their differences.
Season to taste!
 
Great value here.
One of my "best ever" audio purchases.

Good luck in your search.

[Tweaker]

I have a Marsh Sound Designs P2000 I am very happy with. The Audio Advisor sells them and has a 30 day return policy.


 http://audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=MARSHP2000&product_name=P2000%20Line%20Stage%20Preamplifier

You should also consider one of Van Alstines offerings. He has a brand new vacuum tube pre that should be a perfect match to your amp.

 http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=20096

[rmihai0]

Thank you both of you. Any other opinions?

[Marbles]

Can you find a Bent? John stopped making them a while back.

 I have one and like it a lot, but I did hear a pre-amp I liked better.

It is the new one from Stan Warren called the Superphon III.

It did not have an HT bypass, and it did not have a remote volume control.

Stan's reputation is such that I won't buy it, but if someone else that I trusted
made it, and would add a remote option and an HT bypass, I think I'd be all over it.

[Gordy]

The Django preamp is a bare bones chassis version of the NOH with four outputs. It's available from Kevin at DIYCable.  The Sonic Euphoria uses different transformers to achieve the (about) same results and is now MGD's referance preamp. It has 6 outputs, I believe... http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/eelectric/preamps.html

[doug s.]

wait for a m.a.r. refurb'd melos sha-gold-r.  killer preamp.  of course, if you can break the bank, you won't find a preamp  better than this, anywhere, for any price, imo.  (of course, i *am* biased, as i have the two-box iteration w/o the fono stage.   ):

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1126271130


doug s.

[Danny Richie]

Hey Doug,

Dodd Audio Bought out Melos several years ago. He fixed and finished out quite a few of those pre-amps.

The entree level pre-amp that he offers right now is basically that same circuit with less features, but uses higher quality and more reliable components, and he sells it for $450.

[doug s.]

Hey Doug,

Dodd Audio Bought out Melos several years ago. He fixed and finished out quite a few of those pre-amps.

The entree level pre-amp that he offers right now is basically that same circuit with less features, but uses higher quality and more reliable components, and he sells it for $450.

yes, i have heard about that unit.  (tho dodd audio dint buy melos, they bought some boards, etc. - a bank got the company, as part of the bankruptcy deal.  long story - even the dodd guys had emailed me about getting foto's of the innards of my unit, so they could figure out how to fab some of the stuff.  much stuff - even schematics - was being auctioned off on ebay.)  

the dodd unit has two (or three?) inputs, no tape loop, no balanced outs, no remote wolume/balance control, inferior power supply (& not dual mono).  m.a.r. upgaded units have better parts as needed, as well as having the most transparent  potentiometer extant.  the m.a.r. mark porzilli designed tube pot is even better than the prior (and finicky) photentiometer.  re: reliability, i have had absolutely no issues in this regard - my pre has been 100% trouble-free for several years.

all that said, if yure looking for a simple no-frills preamp, i agree you would be hard-pressed to equal the dodd audio $450 preamp.

regards,

doug s.

[mcgsxr]

I had a fellow AC Member build me up a custom Hagerman Clarinet, with my specific number of inputs, and HT bypass, incorporating the DIY Cable remote kit, for around half of your stated budget of US$1100-1200...

I can highly recommend mgalusha for this kind of work, and his thoughtful communication during the process, made him a real pleasure to have do the work.

The specifics of the design are available in the Hagerman Circle, and here is a link to that Circle to a post with some pics of the finished unit, and my thoughts.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=16959

Great tubed pre, works well with all the different digital amps I have paired it with, and yes lcrim, I am a girly remote man!

[toobluvr]

wait for a m.a.r. refurb'd melos sha-gold-r.  killer preamp.  of course, if you can break the bank, you won't find a preamp  better than this, anywhere, for any price, imo. .......

I do remember that in its day, the Melos 333 was respected and highly reviewed piece.  And it's volume pot was considered quite pure and one of the best.

While I have no experience with the 333 line section, I can kindof talk to the phono section.

I owned a stand-alone phono section by Melos called the PS1A.  It had the same case as the 333 phono.  I may have rec'd bum info, but it was described to me as quite similar to the phono section in the flagship piece, except that the parts were cheapened slightly to hit a price point.  The MSRP was 1200, and I got mine from Audio Advisor.

While it was a decent little unit for a basic and entry level foray into vinyl, there was no way it would be mistaken for state of the art!  Not even close.  It was pleasant and sweet to listen to, but it was a bit noisy and quite veiled and dark,  and I tired of it rather quickly.  Even though at the time I was only a vinyl novice, and had rather low expectations and didn't place great demands on my playback system.

"you won't find a preamp better than this, anywhere, for any price, imo."

Huh???
Unless you have heard every offering, you might wanna go a bit easier on the sweeping generalizations.  

Just my 2 cents......FWIW.

[doug s.]

I do remember that in its day, the Melos 333 was respected and highly reviewed piece.  And it's volume pot was considered quite pure and one of the best.

While I have no experience with the 333 line section, I can kindof talk to the phono section.

I owned a stand-alone phono section by Melos called the PS1A.  It had the same case as the 333 phono.  I may have rec'd bum info, but it was described to me as quite similar to the phono section in the flagship piece, except that the parts were cheapened sli ...

i have no experience whatsoever w/the melos fono stages - any of them.  i would imagine, however, that their top line unit, after being upgraded by m.a.r., would be nice.  

i was mainly referring to the line-stage, which is what rmihai was initially inquiring about, & which i know is excellent.  as well as the sha-gold-r, which is basically a one-box iteration of the ma333, albeit w/an active/passive option, & a built-in headfone amp.  (supposedly one of, if not the best headfone amps, fwiw.)  the sha-gold-r is certainly in the pricerange rmihai is looking for...  it was hearing an early sha-gold that 1st turned me on to melos, & which is what lead me to purchase my ma333, & then have mar upgrade it.

rmihai also mentioned linn kairn as a possibility.  i had a linn kairn before i went tubes, & tho it was wery nice - detailed, neutral, extended, w/a wide soundstage - the melos absolutely smoked it, especially in depth & dynamics.  as it also smoked a rogue magnum 99 & cary slp98L, which came before the melos, and after the linn.

doug s.

[toobluvr]

Right......
I understand you were talking about the line stage.

But you did mention the 333, which includes the phono section.  So I was just putting what I know about the piece, and my direct experience with it, out there for others who might be interested.

Also, a product's performance can sometimes be inferred by the performance of other offerings from that same manufacturer.

Visit audioreview.com.  Lots of folks over there complaining quite loudly about Melos preamp reliability issues.  I never had problems myself, but remember hearing of them and holding my breath over the entire time I owned it.   Melos reliability problems were well known.

I have no axe re Melos.  I just wanna air the other side and balance things a bit.

Just as a side note, I have a fair amount of direct ownership and listening experience with Cary products.  I was quite disappointed on all occasions.  In my estimation they are underperformers at their price points, and are waaaaay over-hyped and not deserving of the praise they receive.  

So the ability of a particular preamp, any preamp,  to "smoke" a Cary does not impress me.  This is not to say that it is not good.  Just that for me Cary does not represent excellence,  so outperforming it doesn't tell me an awful lot.  The experience of others may be different.  Sorry if I've ruffled any Cary fan feathers!

PS:  I have no axe re Cary, either.  I just use my ears and call it as I hear it.  

Important thing is...to enjoy the music!

[doug s.]

Right......
I understand you were talking about the line stage.

But you did mention the 333, which includes the phono section, so I was just putting what I know about the piece, and my own experience with it, out there.

Also, a product's performance can sometimes be inferred by the performance of other offerings from that same manufacturer.

Visit audioreview.com.  Lots of folks over there complaining quite loudly about Melos preamp reliability issues.  I never had problems myself, but remember hea ...

the photentiometer wolume pot certainly was the main cause of melos going bankrupt.  even tho it sounded great, it was so sensitive, that the slightest jostling during shipping could cause it to stop working.  and anyone here that has had shipping issues knows that isn't good!    which is why melos' last preamps had alps pots - sonically not as good, but far more reliable.  still excellent sounding preamps, imo - my ma333 was conwertred to the alps pot before i got it, & it sounded great, even before the tube wolume pot mod.  but, for the old melos, the damage had awreddy been done, as all the bad press on audioreview.com indicates.  melos could never recover from all the damage done, both financially, & from irate customers.  too bad, really.  the m.a.r. tube wolume pot is the best of both worlds, imo - transparent *and* reliable.

re: the ma333, there's certainly a fono stage included in the agon ad i referenced, but they were optional; as i've said, i've never heard it, tho i own a ma333.

re: comparing other gear, i agree - it's good to have reference points.  re: the rogue 99 magnum, my experience flies in the face of many who love this gear.  i would rather have gone back to my linn kairn, cuz the rogue was so coloured, & had no low end.  its soundstaging was way overdone, imo, no focus at all - tubes gone wild!    and, it was so microphonic, it would ring if ya *looked* at it the wrong way.  re: the cary slp98, it was actually nice, tho a bit dark, compared to the linn.  while i ultimately woulda chosen it over the linn, cuz i like what the tubes brought to the soundstaging, the melos was really a whole different animal - everything great about solid-state, plus tube soundstaging.  i really have never been motivated to want to "upgrade" it.  and, it's performed in a stellar fashion w/all manner of amplification - solid state, push-pull tubes, set, digital...

regards,

doug s.

[rmihai0]

Thank you both of you - but I think the Melos 333 is WAY too expensive for me.

[doug s.]

Thank you both of you - but I think the Melos 333 is WAY too expensive for me.

which is why you should wait for an sha-gold-r.  
even one  awreddy gone thru by m.a.r. will be in your price-range.

regards,

doug s.

[guest1632]

Hi all,
I need your advise to upgrade my preamp. My speakers are Ellis 1801b and the power amp is Van Alstine's latest incarnation of Dynaco ST 70 - the Ultimate ST70.

I do not have preferences regarding tubes or SS. I do not care about a phono stage either, as long as I am using a separate phono stage with its separate power supply.

My budget: $1100 - $1200 (for a used one).

I was considering a Supratek, or a Bent NOH. From the more commercial stuff I was thinking to Rotel RC-1090, Vincent/Shanli ...

Hi, You might consider the Purist from Irdaudio. $665 SS preamp. Also check out the stuff from TAD (tube audio design)

Ray

[doug s.]

Hi, You might consider the Purist from Irdaudio. $665 SS preamp. Also check out the stuff from TAD (tube audio design)

Ray

tad mods the audcom ap-120 & calls it a tad-150.  based upon a friend's opinion of the stock audcom ap-110, i'd bet that is a decent deal.  it usually sells for about half the listed price on the website, when it's auctioned on agon.

http://www.audcom.com.cn/EN_/product/index.asp

http://www.2baudio.com/

also, i would look into the audio mirror preamp.  no, i have never heard it, but i like my audio mirror 6c33c set amps...

http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1125810361

and, a used one f/s for a few dollars less:
http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?preatube&1126565373

doug s.

[Gordy]

Here's a rare oppurtunity and Gonefishin is a very experienced builder/craftsman!

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=20319&highlight=