Is DVD-A dead?

ScottMayo · « **Reply #20 on:** 29 Jun 2005, 01:25 pm »

Quote from: gongos

Whoever believes jazz and classical are the only 2 legitimate musical artforms have some seriously stunted musical knowledge.

Here are a couple suggestions:

Coil - Time Machines
PIL - Metal Box
1st few Wire albums
Brian Eno's early stuff
Early Can
Kraftwerk

do I need to keep going?

It depends. Are you going to list some actual music?

---
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Texas42 · « **Reply #21 on:** 30 Jun 2005, 12:29 pm »

Quote from: fabaudio

Quote from: Rob Babcock
Jazz is America's only true original art form and jazz is very serious music.

While I enjoy jazz very much, it is certainly not America's 'only' true art form. While I don't particularly enjoy Bluegrass music (having grown up in Kentucky) it predates Jazz in our country and many would consider it an art form. Then again, some music lovers believe the only 'true' music is classical (and I'm lumping baroque, chamber, etc in with that) and that there has not been any music with 'value' since the 1800s. Personally, I don't limit myself in that regard, enjoying a wide range of styles and artists. Variety is the spice of life, no?

Just my .02 cents...

Happy Listening,

Dave

Feisal K · « **Reply #22 on:** 6 Jul 2005, 07:55 am »

Red is the only true and original serious colour. the rest are just pale variations of frequency

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #23 on:** 6 Jul 2005, 09:30 am »

Hmmm...you must be a Redcoat?

Feisal K · « **Reply #24 on:** 6 Jul 2005, 06:23 pm »

Quote from: Rob Babcock

Hmmm...you must be a Redcoat?

haha nah.. Liverpool FC

rmihai0 · « **Reply #25 on:** 6 Jul 2005, 08:33 pm »

DVD-Audio will never be dead. SACD instead will be gone soon.

RussKon · « **Reply #26 on:** 31 Jul 2005, 08:19 pm »

Quote

DVD-Audio will never be dead. SACD instead will be gone soon.

really?

well - here are almost 3200 SACD's and more added to the list every day...

http://www.sa-cd.net/

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #27 on:** 31 Jul 2005, 10:59 pm »

The same can be said of cassette and LP, Russ. I guess no format is ever truly dead!

I think DVD-A & SACD have already "failed" in the sense of replacing the CD- it hasn't happened and never will, IMO. Still, as niche formats both are thriving. I've got roughly equal numbers of both (well, truth be told my DVD-A collection is a bit larger than my SACD section) and "more are added to the list weekly."

Marbles · « **Reply #28 on:** 1 Aug 2005, 12:44 am »

Rob,

Do you ever watch concert DVD's?

They are much more enjoyable for me than DVD-A or SACD.

Watson · « **Reply #29 on:** 1 Aug 2005, 06:07 am »

DVD-A and SACD are dead. They've lost all momentum. Sony no longer actively promotes or advertises SACD. They've removed SACD support from their lower end DVD players like the NS50 (remember two years ago, when even the cheapest Sony DVPs, like the NS500V, had SACD support?). Record companies are not releasing titles on SACD even when they would make a lot of sense. The first Norah Jones album sold very well for SACD (as flawed as the SACD was), yet her followup album wasn't released on SACD. Retail stores are moving their SACD/DVD-A selections to back corners and slowly reducing inventory. Consumers have lit a fire under the iPod and aren't interesting in buying music that they can't play on their iPod. What little momentum the two high-res formats had initially is completely gone.

Hopefully Blu-Ray or HD-DVD audio discs will be better executed, though I have my doubts that any audio format that won't play on an iPod will catch on with consumers in the next few years.

soundboy · « **Reply #30 on:** 1 Aug 2005, 06:46 am »

DVD-A....I am not sure. Aside from the new Simple Minds DVD-A that were just released, it's been relatively quiet for the format.

As for SACD, the format is picking up steam. Sony just released its first domestic SACD title (Jeff Wayne's musical version of "War of the Worlds") in almost one year. Roger Waters (of Pink Floyd) is releasing his next project on SACD through Sony in September. BMG just released 10 new titles on its Living Stereo last week, with rumors of another 10 coming. Bryan Ferry's "Boys and Girls" and "The Best of Roxy Music" both received their domestic SACD releases recently. Dire Straits' "Brothers In Arms' was just released on SACD a few months back, while work on Pink Floyd's "Wish You Were Here" is almost done with a possible release by year's end (this was announced after Pink Floyd's reunion at Live8). Genesis has already announced 3 albums remixed for multi-channel SACD on its official website, awaiting official release date. John Hiatt just released a direct-to-DSD single-inventory hybrid SACD. And all this happened within the last 3 months.

As for Norah Jones, look a little harder and you will find this album....

You can find a thread I started on this SACD by clicking here. Post #30 is from the remastering engineer for this album, Alan Silverman. He also remastered the Kinks' catalog.

On the hardware front, SACD just received support from NAD. Its new Master Series will feature a universal player.

Sherwood also released 2 universal players this year. Surprisingly, Sony, Marantz, and Denon all now feature stereo-only SACD players as their top-of-the-line models. With the budget players, I purchased a Sony DVP-NS755V SACD/DVD/CD player for $99.00 about 3 months ago; Sony also released a SACD/CD changer (SCD-CE595) for $150.00 last year. Universal players such as the Toshiba 4960 can be had online for $60.00. Sony is in the middle of a change in models right now....it already announced a SACD capable DVD player with HDMI for $200.00.

Watson · « **Reply #31 on:** 1 Aug 2005, 07:28 am »

The Peter Malick Group album is a red herring. It was not released by her label (she was recorded on the Peter Malick Group album prior to being signed to record her own first album). It's being promoted by a different label in an attempt to piggyback off of her popularity. The real acid test is her own label choosing not to release Feels Like Home on SACD, despite having good sales of Come Away With Me on SACD. If any title would have been a slam dunk on SACD, it would have been that one, yet her label chose not to do an SACD release. It just doesn't make commercial sense. There's no interest out there.

If what you're saying is true, that Sony only released one domestic SACD title in the last year, that just seems like more evidence SACD is dead. Sony was the inventor and promoter of SACD -- they should be huge supporters of the format -- if even Sony isn't releasing titles on SACD at any kind of reasonable rate, it's obvious the format is toast.

Even the buzz online has died down. Remember how there used to be all kinds of threads on the audio forums arguing about whether DVD-A or SACD was better? You don't see them any more because no one cares. Virtually every thread requesting purchasing advice these days is asking about good Redbook performance.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #32 on:** 1 Aug 2005, 07:46 am »

I'll have to pick up the Peter Malick group SACD, at least if it's MC. I don't buy anything in either hirez digital format that's only stereo. New York City is far more interesting musically than either of her solo albums, IMOHO. And I liked both of them pretty well.

Oh, well. Call 'em dead til you're blue in the face, but new stuff keeps comin' out and I keep on buyin' it!

Watson · « **Reply #33 on:** 1 Aug 2005, 07:51 am »

The Peter Malick SACD is just stereo, not multichannel.

I agree, it's interesting music and a worthwhile listen.

soundboy · « **Reply #34 on:** 1 Aug 2005, 06:01 pm »

Quote from: Watson

If what you're saying is true, that Sony only released one domestic SACD title in the last year, that just seems like more evidence SACD is dead. Sony was the inventor and promoter of SACD -- they should be huge supporters of the format -- if even Sony isn't releasing titles on SACD at any kind of reasonable rate, it's obvious the format is toast.

The inventor of a format doesn't necessarily does the most promotion for it....witness Pioneer's involvement with LaserDisc. Where was Philips?

Despite the lack of involvement from Sony, at least on the software side, there were over 1,000 SACD releases within the last 12 months.

http://www.sa-cd.net/additions.php

As for the Peter Malick SACD, you can even say that it's not even available domestically in the US, so it doesn't really count (it was released in Taiwan and I had to get it from ebay Hong Kong). But the fact remains that a SACD title has been released....and it not being available in the US perhaps shows that the music buying public here doesn't care about quality as much as other people.

Watson · « **Reply #35 on:** 1 Aug 2005, 08:42 pm »

Quote from: soundboy

The inventor of a format doesn't necessarily does the most promotion for it....witness Pioneer's involvement with LaserDisc. Where was Philips?

That's true, but who is doing promotion for SACD? No one.

Quote

Despite the lack of involvement from Sony, at least on the software side, there were over 1,000 SACD releases within the last 12 months.

SACD averages 80 releases a month (worldwide), trending downward. 3 of the last 8 months saw less than 60 releases. (How many of those are like the Peter Malick SACD, not even available in the US?) In comparison, there are roughly 2700 CDs released every month. SACD just isn't healthy. There are very few titles being released, and it's getting harder and harder to buy the few that exist anywhere, except online.

There does seem to be a bit of a niche in classical music (43% of SACDs), jazz (20% of SACDs) and Asian music, but every other genre is either under-represented or almost entirely re-releases of old music, not new releases. The only "mainstream" pop/rock SACD released in the last 8 months was Keane's album, and since SACD's introduction in 1999, only one rap/hip-hop album has ever been released. This trickle is even more laughable when you compare it to vinyl, where quite a bit of new music is still being released.

nathanm · « **Reply #36 on:** 1 Aug 2005, 09:22 pm »

Where'd that NAD pic come from, soundboy? I can't find a thing about it on Google.

Unfortunately there's no non-technical, non-audiophile reason that can be given as to why DVD-A or SACD is a cool new thing to the non-nerd listener. It's kind of an insurmountable marketing challenge IMO. It's just not as big of a jump as it was from vinyl to CD. In a way the slogan of "perfect sound forever" is true because in order to realize the extra resolution offered by the new formats you have to do all the audiophile nerd things that the general public has no interest in doing (room treatments, active listening in sweet spot etc.). I think we hit a plateau as far as music playback goes. Video still has room to grow, but audio is kind of tapped out for the most part.

soundboy · « **Reply #37 on:** 1 Aug 2005, 10:13 pm »

Quote from: nathanm

Where'd that NAD pic come from, soundboy? I can't find a thing about it on Google.

Unfortunately there's no non-technical, non-audiophile reason that can be given as to why DVD-A or SACD is a cool new thing to the non-nerd listener. It's kind of an insurmountable marketing challenge IMO. It's just not as big of a jump as it was from vinyl to CD. In a way the slogan of "perfect sound forever" is true because in order to realize the extra resolution offered by the new formats you have to do all the aud ...

Here's the link where I found the info on the new NAD gear....

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=563866

It'll be interesting to see what happened with HD-DVD and Blu-ray when they get introduced to the market. I think they will face similar challenges as DVD-A/SACD.

BTW, 20th Century FOX announced its support for Blu-ray today. Disney, and of course Sony, has pledged software support for Blu-ray already.

Digi-G · « **Reply #38 on:** 2 Aug 2005, 12:22 pm »

Yes, it will be interesting to see what happens with HD-DVD and Blu-Ray. Surely those big companies don't think everyone will rush out and replace their existing DVD players, not to mention the software (sure, a lot of us on this forum will, but MOST people?).

So, if 'only' 15% of the population rush out and replace their current dvd players, what will happen on the software side of HD-DVD / Blu-Ray? Will it be similar to SACD and DVD-Audio? If the new format only penetrates 10-15% of the market will it be considered a failure? If it's considered a failure will the software releases start to trail off ? (Remember, new HD discs will be required to take advantage of this new format).

Watson · « **Reply #39 on:** 2 Aug 2005, 05:34 pm »

The future of HD-DVD/Blu-ray is much brighter than the high-res audio formats, because HDTV is the future and DVDs look terrible after you've just watched a program broadcast in HD. Adoption of the new video formats may be slow (nothing worse than a format war!), but in the long term it's a sure bet that people are going to want HD movies to watch on their HDTVs, so the manufacturers and content producers will stick it out.