[Kevin P]

Seven channels of UCD-400 LOVE with 1.6KVA and 82,000uF of juice all in a standard 2U chassis 16.5" x 12" x 3.5".      

RFI Filter, DC Filter and surge protection all in place.

[klh]

Drool  

[bald]

Wed May 11, 2005 6:15 pm    

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I've been asked to give out some "standard" pricing on various amplifier configurations.


UCD180 2-channel Amp: $750

UCD180 3-channel Amp: $950

UCD180 5-channel Amp: $1450

The standard UCD400 adds about $105/channel to any of these configurations. The price differential is due to the larger power supply and extra cost of the modules.
_________________
Kevin Haskins
www.diycable.com

So, judging from that, ballpark of like $2750 for a 7 channel ucd400 amp? Let us know how far off that is.

bald

[Kevin P]

Actually this one is coming in at $375/ch or $2625.00 but it all depends on how you want it configured.

[bald]

Maybe I'm unfamiliar with the quality of these amplifiers, but $2600 for a 7ch x 200w into 8ohms is a good chunk of change.

I don't want to start an argument over pricing, but I only mention it because of how I perceive the value of the other exodus products (basically the speaker lines) in comparison to their retail counterparts.

What kind of retail amplifiers would you call direct competitors of this amplifier?

Just throwing out some things off the top of my head, outlaw has a 7 ch x 200 for $1800 or so and a 300w x 7 version is rumored soon, and rotel does a 200w x 5 for $2k. Not to mention all the ugly/loud pro-amps (qsc, behringer, crown) that bring a lot more power to the table for the dollar (ok, maybe not the $$$ crowns )

thoughts on how this product compares?

bald

edit: just reread my posts, they sound a little more negative than I intended. This looks like an excellent product, and I would obviously love to have it. Just trying to get a feel for the 'value' of the amp

[Kevin P]

Maybe I'm unfamiliar with the quality of these amplifiers, but $2600 for a 7ch x 200w into 8ohms is a good chunk of change.

I don't want to start an argument over pricing, but I only mention it because of how I perceive the value of the other exodus products (basically the speaker lines) in comparison to their retail counterparts.

What kind of retail amplifiers would you call direct competitors of this amplifier?

Just throwing out some things off the top of my head, outlaw has a 7 ch x 200 for $18 ...

Your right... in terms of dollars/watt it isn't going to be competitive with Chinese made amplifiers.   We hand build them and there is just no way to build them in small volume for less money.

What the others don't have is a total Class D solution in this size.   I'd bet money they won't be using the quality of parts we are using and once you calculate the engergy used by a big mulitchannel amp like this over it's lifetime you will find that these are VERY compelling in terms of cost of ownership.   You will also find that sound quality wise these amplifiers are difficult to beat without spending multiples of their price.

How's that?  

[bald]

Hey, if I had the cash I'd buy this amp in a second, since it's small + quiet + cool, and apparently of very high quality.

As it is the LCRs x 3 + some kind of surround x 2 is going to stretch the budget to it's breaking point.

Looks like a nice product, maybe a 3-channel version for the lcrs up front is in my future

bald

[ryno]

B e a uitful amp kevin. A little much for my KIT41, but would love to try a UCD on my magies. A couple Q's, now I'm using a sub through it's high level inputs. I know tripath, and ICE amps won't let you do this, can't do common ground or something. How about the UCD's? Also, in another post you mentioned a bottlehead pre, how does that play with the UCD amps?
Thanks, Ryan

edit, I was informed that the ICE amps migh t be able to power a sub through high level inputs so I don't want to post saying they can't.

[Kevin P]

B e a uitful amp kevin. A little much for my KIT41, but would love to try a UCD on my magies. A couple Q's, now I'm using a sub through it's high level inputs. I know tripath, and ICE amps won't let you do this, can't do common ground or something. How about the UCD's? Also, in another post you mentioned a bottlehead pre, how does that play with the UCD amps?
Thanks, Ryan

Good question... I'm trying to think of why the high level input wouldn't work.   The Hypex amps use a positive rail, Power GND and Negative rail.  I had always thought that output ground was tied to the power ground (maybe seperated by a filter) and hense there shouldn't be a reason it would have problems with a high level subwoofer input.   I'll try it tomorrow and see what we get.

A UCD based amp should do wonders for your Magies.    My personal Bottlehead Foreplay III is waiting for me to make some time for it.     I also wanted to get the top panel powder coated so it's waiting for my next batch of powder coating.   Once it's done I'll probably pull a late nighter.   I have heard one of Dan's early FPIIIs and they are excellent.   The layout and circuit design are tweaked to the max and I'm hoping it will make it an excellent match for my 2 channel system.   I'm looking for a little of that 2nd harmonic flavor in my soup.

[Al Garay]

This reminds me, my 6 channels of UcD400 should be done right about now.

Sorry Outlaw amps are basically ATI amps. Not bad. But not comparable to the Hypex UcD which have been favorably compared to Accuphase, AudioResearch, BelCanto, Nuforce. There are details about UcD based amps in diyaudio.com.

Since Hypex amps are modular, you can use many combinations of power supply capacitors and transformers which will influence your perception of the sound quality. Some have used Blackgate caps, or Cerafines. I went with the less expensive Panasonics TSHAs after hearing one of Kevin's 5 channel UcD180 amps.

In addition to the sound quality, I also appreciate that they run very cool, dissipate very little heat, which means no large heatsinks nor noisy fans are needed. They use less power than a comparable class AB amp. Nice not having to add more dedicated circuits to handle the extra power.

[Kevin P]

Sorry Outlaw amps are basically ATI amps. Not bad. But not comparable to the Hypex UcD which have been favorably compared to Accuphase, AudioResearch, BelCanto, Nuforce. There are details about UcD based amps in diyaudio.com.

Since Hypex amps are modular, you can use many combinations of power supply capacitors and transformers which will influence your perception of the sound quality. Some have used Blackgate caps, or Cerafines. I went with the less expensive Panasonics TSHAs after hearing one of Kevin's 5 channel UcD180 amps.

In addition to the sound quality, I also appreciate that they run very cool, dissipate very little heat, which means no large heatsinks nor noisy fans are needed. They use less power than a comparable class AB amp. Nice not having to add more dedicated circuits to handle the extra power....

You know I don't mention much about sound quality because any ya-who can (and does) get on the internet and talk about how much better product 'A'  is than product 'B'.    I know that is what consumers want to hear but it's all subjective.   You never know if the person talking is nuts or if they are sane.   Most of the ones people listen to are nuts.

Having said that these amps are awesome..... I'd not consider using any other high power solution now that I've been exposed to them.   For high effiicency speakers (horns) I'd pick a tube amp of my favorite flavor but not for any direct radiator.  

On caps the Panasonics are pretty damn good.   Their performance is spectacular and if we painted them black or some other cool color I'm sure people would pay multiples of their price for them.  

[Al Garay]

I was very happy with my AKSA amps. When choosing to go multi-channels for HT or active system, I could not rationalize spending any more than the Hypex.

They are very transperant, quiet, image like crazy, have tons of low-end and they did not sound dry/sterile as some people think. And this was running with a pair of Ellis 1801b.

[Voodoo Rufus]

So are these Class D UCD amps really the future of hifi amps, to replace Class A or AB designs? Are they really better in theory?

[DanWiggins]

Al,

Your amps are getting buttoned up now.  It's one HECK of a huge bank of capacitors!  

Bald,

The Hypex amps have the added benefit of running extremely cool, even at high power output, and no fan.  And in a smaller overall size.  End result is you can stick them in tight/closed spaces without worry.  And they sound fantastic (we have a 5 channel unit we use for all our shows, where putting your best foot forward is not only expected, it's demanded).

Ryno,

Just confirmed - they work great driving the speaker level inputs of a subwoofer.  No problem whatsoever.

Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio®

[DanWiggins]

So are these Class D UCD amps really the future of hifi amps, to replace Class A or AB designs? Are they really better in theory?

They are the future.  Wide bandwidth, better measured performance in the bottom end, noise-free.  No heat issues because of the high efficiency, and if mated with a good switchmode power supply (wait for a few months....) extremely compact and light weight, too.

Price of a good quality class D amp solution is now equal with class A/B units; I suspect that, as MOSFET technology keeps racing ever-onward, the price will fall even more, meaning it will not only be a better performing amp, but a lower cost one as well.

Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio®

[guest1632]

They are the future.  Wide bandwidth, better measured performance in the bottom end, noise-free.  No heat issues because of the high efficiency, and if mated with a good switchmode power supply (wait for a few months....;)) extremely compact and light weight, too.

Price of a good quality class D amp solution is now equal with class A/B units; I suspect that, as MOSFET technology keeps racing ever-onward, the price will fall even more, meaning it will not only be a better performing amp, but a lower cost one as well.

Dan Wiggins
Adire Audio®

Hi Dan and Kevin,

One question: On the outpups do you have the current problem/safety factor like you do on some of these Class D amps like the BNO amps?

Ray

[guest1632]

Seven channels of UCD-400 LOVE with 1.6KVA and 82,000uF of juice all in a standard 2U chassis 16.5" x 12" x 3.5".    :shock:  

RFI Filter, DC Filter and surge protection all in place.

Hi Kevin, could you post some info as to the specs of the supplies for both the 2 channel 180 and 400 watt versions.  Just curious, the prices are pretty good. Just wondering what you're doing to keep 'em down so low, versus the CI stuff which is $1600 for the 100W and $2300 for the 200 Watt versions. Of course, both are mono blocks. Obviously, two cases and two supplies are gonna make a difference, but that much?

I'm assuming you are using similar modules.

Ray

[Al Garay]

How is the heat dissipation? I would have thought 7 was too many for one chassis.

[Kevin P]

Hi Kevin, could you post some info as to the specs of the supplies for both the 2 channel 180 and 400 watt versions.  Just curious, the prices are pretty good. Just wondering what you're doing to keep 'em down so low, versus the CI stuff which is $1600 for the 100W and $2300 for the 200 Watt versions. Of course, both are mono blocks. Obviously, two cases and two supplies are gonna make a difference, but that much?

I'm assuming you are using similar modules.

Ray

Sure...    your probably right that the cost of two chassis and supplies significantly changes the price.   Our 2-channel UCD180 uses a 500VA transformer with dual 30V secondaries.   We use 10,000uF per rail using the Panasonic TSU caps.    We bypass them with small 1.0uF Clarity Caps and use a dual rectifier bridge.

[Kevin P]

How is the heat dissipation? I would have thought 7 was too many for one chassis.

Total heat dissipation isn't a problem but getting it away from the modules and into the chassis can be.    It's something we are working on and part of our secret mojo.