[Tyson]

Three guys in our audio club use ANK DACs, all have been built using premium parts which is sort of gilding the lily. Two ANK 5.1's and a 2.1; they held a comparison and the 5.1 and 2.1 sounded very similar.

Upgrades included:
Silver (.999) signal wire 16 gauge, instead of 18 gauge supplied copper
High voltage and high current hookup wire 16 gauge
Six 1/4 watt resistors on Super Regulator board replaced with 1 watt
Basic rubber feet replaced with large aluminium/rubber footers
Small rubber washers for mounting power transformers and chokes
Super-Reg board: United Chemi-con capacitors replaced with audio Elna Silmic of same values
Analog board: United Chemi-con capacitors replaced with audio Elna Silmic
Front-mounting rotary switch and gold knob optional addition instead of rear toggle
V-Caps upgrade from Audionote caps, purchased from ANK (suggestion from Brian at ANK)
Fourteen Non-magnetic Tantalum resistors all replaced on analog board, from ANK (I love these resistors for signal paths)
USB board: WaveIO with latest clock instead of supplied Chinese brand of questionable origin?


I think that for 44.1 kHz and 96 kHz the ANK DACs can't be beat. The HoloAudio DACs really come into their own when playing DSD and upsampled DSD with HQPlayer, it's all the filter choices in HQPlayer that make a difference.

I'm the only member out of 12 in our audio club that does hi-res. I get to hear a lot of 44.1 NOS music, it sounds just fine. One member has a custom state-of-the-art reel-to-reel so we actually have a point of reference what a recording should sound like, tapes are still the gold standard.

I think we've moved away from the original streamer setup topic!  But I agree with you.  If I were mainly using DSD files then I would have a DSD native DAC.  One with tubes in the output stage though.  Because for me, I am a tone-first listener.  Before resolution, before bass, before soundstage.  If tone isn't fully preserved then the rest doesn't matter to me.  And tubed DACs are the only thing I've heard that can do it. 

One other interesting thing I've noticed is I don't spend as much $$ on gear anymore.  Or recordings (because I stream 100% now).  But I do spend money on music.  Live music in particular.  Denver and Boulder have some amazing chamber music seasons as well as the Colorado Symphony is incredible.  But the REAL ace is the pickup group of players that perform over the summer at the Chautauqua in Boulder.  Just astonishingly great.  And downright cheap tickets. 

[NXSTUDIO-DRUMMER]

Tyson,
It's ok, it just shows how we all can grow in the hobby. We all have to start somewhere, finishing up, gives us all something to look forward too. That's what makes the journey fun. I appreciate what you and WGH contributed, by the way. I may know my drumkit inside and out, but I'm still learning from seasoned guys like you all. Excellent information by the way.

[WGH]

I think we've moved away from the original streamer setup topic!

A streamer is kind of useless without a DAC unless someone buys one of those all-in-one streaming chimeras. Choosing an affordable DAC to match a laptop server could be a completely new topic.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I built a dedicated desktop to use as a music server with low ripple power supply, shielded cables, no video card and 10 TB's of storage.  I have it next to my audio rack and remote in via a laptop via windows remote desktop.  The Desktop also has a JCat Femto usb card powered by an external LPS which then goes to my Luxman and Levinson DACs via usb.  I have Tidal and Audiovana Studio.  It works great with streaming.  No need for a dedicated streamer.  I can't see it sounding any better.

We have a WiiM Ultra and my set up sounds better.

[JakeJ]

So this would also work on a tablet of choice as well, more visual real estate for us old blind audiophiles. 

[Jon L]

I built a dedicated desktop to use as a music server with low ripple power supply, shielded cables, no video card and 10 TB's of storage.  I have it next to my audio rack and remote in via a laptop via windows remote desktop.  The Desktop also has a JCat Femto usb card powered by an external LPS which then goes to my Luxman and Levinson DACs via usb.  I have Tidal and Audiovana Studio.  It works great with streaming.  No need for a dedicated streamer.  I can't see it sounding any better.

We have a WiiM Ultra and my set up sounds better.

5-figure "audiophile streamers" exist, way too often IMO.  A clean computer with decent USB output mobo or JCAT/SoTM USB output is what I'd recommend for most people.  As DAC USB input boards have improved over time, PC audio digital output quality has become quite good IME.  There ARE differences, but WAY, way less than gains achieved by speakers/room optimization.   

[kmmd]

Quick questions…when one uses USB, does the DAC or streamer/server/computer set the master clock?  Does a Femto USB card in the computer make a difference?

[Jon L]

Quick questions…when one uses USB, does the DAC or streamer/server/computer set the master clock?  Does a Femto USB card in the computer make a difference?

Pretty much every modern DAC's USB input is asynchronous and reclocked at USB input buffer by DAC's local clock, so a lot of these "improved clock" claims in streamers/USB cards seem to me like marketing.  IME, much of the perceived sound difference from different streamers/USB cards seems to come from reduced (or just changed) noise passed to the DAC, similar to how diferent USB cables seem to change sound. 

[kmmd]

Bingo Jon.  Thank you. Also, noise is very important as you state. USB is noisy.

It’s interesting that individuals post about Femto clocks on computer cards and sending the digital info to a generations old DAC.  The older DAC clock takes over thus negating the computer card. 

When I was running my Aurender N20 to an older Brinkmann Nyquist II DAC, I used a USB cable for a long time.  The. Nyquist is OLD.  I switched to an AES/EBU cable to let the streamer’s clock take over.  The difference was night and day.  Of course, you lose the ability to listen to DSD/DSF files by using AES.  I don’t have many files, so it wasn’t a big deal.

I can see one using a Femto card to a Holo Audio May DAC, as Holo claims to have optimized their USB input.  Still my May KTE gave me headaches after listening to it for two hours.  That isn’t the case with my Brinkmann.  Like Tyson, a tubed DAC is what I like.  The. Nyquist is so musical.  Glad I got rid of the May.  My new DAC is in a different league, but it comes at a price.  The $2k modules add to the cost. What MSB did for USB and noise elimination is just brilliant.

By the way, as for all-in-ones,  I’ve heard great things about the Lumin X2.  A guy that I purchased cables and equipment from, Audio Sherpa, tells me that is it phenomenal.  He owns incredible equipment including an MSB Premier and Cascade DAC and wanted me to buy an X2.
.
Happy listening and continue to experiment.  It’s what makes this hobby so fun and interesting.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Pretty much every modern DAC's USB input is asynchronous and reclocked at USB input buffer by DAC's local clock, so a lot of these "improved clock" claims in streamers/USB cards seem to me like marketing.  IME, much of the perceived sound difference from different streamers/USB cards seems to come from reduced (or just changed) noise passed to the DAC, similar to how diferent USB cables seem to change sound.

The JCat cards do more than get rid of noise.  The sound stage is wider, the music is more musical and with the Jcat femto card, a little bit of warmth.  But you are correct, they get rid of noise.

And USB cables can sound different.  The wireworld platinum Starlight 7 USB cable was a game changer with my Luxman dac. They have great synergy.

[WGH]

I was listening to streaming audio for 5 years before I build the C.A.P.S Music Server in 2011. My CD library was 4 blocks away at my woodshop, not convenient at all. I ripped the CDs using EAC and soon had all my music at home at the touch of a button.

Starting at the beginning of USB audio in 2006 has been fun, I was using a tower computer with Windows XP, definitely the USB stone age.

August 2006 - I ordered a Hagerman HagUSB kit ($39), a USB to SPDIF converter because few DAC's had a USB input yet.

September 2006 -  I started my digital journey really high end (or so I thought). My first DAC was a California Audio Labs System 1 D/A Processor. Made in 1992 and selling for $1995, the CAL System 1 was one of the high end digital analog processors of that time. The sound of the unit could be customized with four different plug-in modules. This unit had the $200 MASH IV 1-bit, 32x oversampling module and the $650 Indus 20-bit, 8x oversampling module. I paid $220 for the entire unit.



I never warmed up to the CAL System 1. In hindsight this DAC was my first foray into oversampling and it didn't go very well. The CAL also used mechanical muting relays to blank the circuit while the data is locking on. The relays clicked loudly in between tracks which got annoying real fast. I had no problem selling the CAL System 1 because Stereophile gave it a glowing review: https://www.wghwoodworking.com/cal/CAL_System_1.pdf


My quest for better sounding USB audio had started.


In October 2006 I got a Scott Nixon Tube DAC, a non-oversampling (NOS) DAC that used a Philips TDA 1543 chip and a simple filter. Two years later I was bored with the Scott Nixon, it was too mellow. The DAC removed the edge from early CDs but the highs from new CDs too.

I upgraded to a Toshiba laptop and a Van Alstine Insight DAC in 2008. Music was clearer with more prat, not as good as vinyl but OK.


Building a dedicated music server in 2011 made me realize three things held back the sound: the first was noise; the second was the laptop's integrated USB port; and the third was the HagUSB. The new music server had a Paul Pang Audio Grade USB card powered by an Acopian regulated linear power supply, a KingRex UC192 USB/SPDIF converter with is own dedicated power supply replaced the HagUSB, and the SSD had it's own regulated power supply. Another bonus was because both the USB card and KingRex had separate power supplies I was able to use a custom USB cable without a 5v wire eliminating another path for jitter.

My latest music server build in 2021 sounds like music, all the parts have a nice synergy and I'm not thinking of changing anything anymore.


Old laptops will get you most of the way toward high end sound quality but remember, it's the journey, not the destination. Once the laptop is up and running you will love the sound and it will probably sound just as good as an affordable commercial music streamer.

[fridays]

I’m still using a purpose build 2011 Mac mini my only issue is the old spinning HD sounds great, The Problem is you can’t buy this green drive anymore, using an external SSD sounds terrible
What’s a poor boy to do…it sure isn’t buying an expensive server the two I tried were not very good

[kmmd]

Pretty much every modern DAC's USB input is asynchronous and reclocked at USB input buffer by DAC's local clock

I think that individuals are missing what I’m trying to get at.  It’s wonderful that you have concentrated and tackled the noise issue in your source.  It’s a nice clock on the card too.  However it’s the clock and noisy USB input INSIDE your DAC that’s running and ruining the show if you’re using a USB connection.  Clocks are also very important due to jitter IME.  Older DACs have much less accurate clocks just as in my Brinkmann which is why I used an AES/EBU cable to let the Aurender clock control everything. 

Here’s something to think about.  What if you moved that darn USB connection OUTSIDE of the DAC then convert it to fiber optic OUTSIDE of the DAC?  Then you connect a fiber optic cable to the DAC.  Now you’ll get a synchronous signal, and more importantly, 100% electrical isolation between source and DAC.  For MSB, that happens with their ProUSB and ProISL modules.  $1k MSRP for each module please.

Google search:
“The JCAT USB Card FEMTO is a PCIe card designed to bypass motherboard noise, delivering an ultra-clean USB output using advanced linear regulators and a precision Crystek CCHD-957 Femto clock. It outputs digital data strictly asynchronously, leaving timing up to your DAC's master clock while drastically reducing data jitter at the PC level.”

[Tyson]

If you are concerned about jitter optical is worse than regular old SPDIF.

[NXSTUDIO-DRUMMER]

Thought I would get some opinions on these TP-Link TL-MC200 | Gigabit SFP to RJ45 Fiber Media Converter | Fiber to Ethernet Converters. Good, bad product?  I wanted some advice, prior to purchasing these, connecting them up with my Dell SSD 64 ram laptop in the interim, along with my 8GB 2.0 USB Flash Drive. The 2nd media box, I'll run a half meter of Ethernet cable to connect to the Laptop, keeping noise interference to a minimum. For the time being, I'll use my LPS to power the router.

Eventually I'll buy a NUC, used with Daphile as well. I liked the simplicity of Tysons idea, incorporating a NUC compact box. When I do this change up, I'll switch up the location of the LPS to power the NUC, while going back to the walwart powering the router. IME, it will be better suited to have the LPS powering the NUC, rather than the router. Correct me if my sequence is incorrect.

Here is the Amazon link below:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0FDG3FHNF/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1



To date it's been very enjoyable reading eveyones input, educating the rest of us, with your successfully implented ideas, applied to your audio systems.

[WGH]

Thought I would get some opinions on these TP-Link TL-MC200 | Gigabit SFP to RJ45 Fiber Media Converter | Fiber to Ethernet Converters. Good, bad product?

I like the idea of streaming music to the server by ethernet because that is how I do it. I have 1 TB of music in an all purpose tower computer which is networked to the music server. The SSD in the music server only has the Windows 11 operating system, JRiver and HQPlayer.


I have been thinking about fridays 2011 Mac mini. The mini has some weird ports but I doubt any were designed with streaming music in mind and an external SSD powered by a cheap switching power supply is not the best solution as fridays discovered. The ethernet port might be better.

Another problem the 2011 Mac mini might have is the music player. I'm not familiar with Mac's and what software is available to play music. Current music players play the tracks from memory instead of on-the-fly. Memory play eliminates data errors and probably helps with jitter too. JRiver Media Center officially introduced expanded memory playback capabilities (including pre-buffering large chunks of audio into memory) in 2013 with the release of Media Center 19, Memory Play had to be enabled manually, now it is the default configuration.

If fridays 2011 Mac mini is still running Mac OS X 10.7 Lion maybe it's time to upgrade so a modern player can be used. I know JRiver's audio quality has improved with each release.

OpenCore Legacy Patcher (OCLP) is a powerful, free, open-source tool that allows you to install and run newer, unsupported versions of macOS (like macOS Sequoia, Sonoma, or Ventura) on older Mac computers that Apple no longer supports. It works by injecting necessary hardware drivers (kexts) and ACPI patches into your Mac's firmware, allowing the newer OS to function smoothly. Make a image of the HDD and a bootable thumbdrive in case the OS upgrade turns the mini into a brick.


The same advice applies to old Windows laptops. My 2008 Toshiba laptop came with Windows Vista, no current software would run on Vista anymore, not even Firefox or Chrome. I did a Windows 7 clean install (from my old disk collection) and then the free Windows 10 upgrade. Everything worked again but slowly and then slower and slower because after 18 years every part was dying. A new SSD might have helped but putting money into a 18 year old computer is a fools errand.

Probably the same as putting money into a 15 year old Mac mini.

[NXSTUDIO-DRUMMER]

So this would also work on a tablet of choice as well, more visual real estate for us old blind audiophiles. 

Jake,
If your inquiring about Daphile being compatible with a tablet, it wouldn't.

[WGH]

The Gold Note DS-5.2 Streamer is definitely not an alternative to a high end streamer but it looks interesting and almost affordable. Too new to get a definite price: $1,290 to $2,100.
Just in case the laptop hack fails.




I really like the ad copy, check it out:

https://www.goldnote.it/digital-sources/ds-5-2/

The DS-5.2 features a built-in analogue preamp stage, allowing direct connection to a power amplifier or active speakers
Coax and optical - 24bit/192kHz
USB A - PCM 32bit/ 384kHz, DSD256 (could be by thumbdrive only)
USB C - asynchronous PCM up to 16bit/48kHz
Network (LAN/WLAN) - DSD256 and PCM up to 32bit/384kHz

Roon Ready
TIDAL Connect
Qobuz Connect
Spotify Connect and Spotify Lossless HD

[kmmd]

No, I’m not concerned about jitter by using optical.  Apparently MSB is.  My DAC is third in line, and the two higher tiered DACs have better clocks (Sentinel clock and Femto 33 in the Cascade).  I’ll take 100% electrical isolation over a little increase in jitter.  I learned a lot from my MSB factory tour in Watsonville last week.  Great minds and fantastic crew.