[BlindFalcon]

The Journey:

I started out by building a pair of X-LS Encores and purchasing, a Schiit Saga preamp, a Schiit Vidar amp, and a Bluesound Node streamer.  I couldn't believe how good it sounded and I was in heaven. But, as everyone here knows, it only served to prime the DIY pump.  When the LGK 2.0 came out I was ready for the next project.  After building them, they sounded really good in the Saga/Vidar/Bluesound system, but they weren't intended to replace the X-LS Encores, and were moved to the office.  They sat for some time until I built an Amp Camp Amp to drive them.  Honestly, I was underwhelmed with the ACA/LGK 2.0 combo, and a little disappointed.  I read however, that the ACAs were much better as mono blocks and I was curious as to what a subwoofer might bring to the table.  So, I subsequently built a second ACA and purchased a REL TZero MKIII sub. 

The X-LS System:




First I added the REL to the existing Vidar and it sounded better, or did it?  I once thought it sounded better, but realized I forgot to turn on the sub.  Hmmm, then I switched to the ACAs.  What happened?  All of a sudden I was hearing a low end I didn't even know existed.  Now the Vidar was sounding a little harsh.  But the bass!  Depending on the song it could be subtle, or it could be blatant, but I knew I needed it!  The only complaint was I wanted a little more of it.  The ACAs might be a little underpowered.

LGK 2.0 System:





I moved the preamp and amps into the office where I have a Mac computer connected to a Schiit Bifrost.  I ran the tests again.  The Vidar sounds great with the Mac/Bifrost/Saga, but only marginally better with he REL.  (to run the REL I swapped out the Mac/Bifrost for the Bluesound Node as it has an output for sub)  Then I did the same tests with the ACAs.  OMG!!!  The ACAs sounded a little thin compared to the Vidar without the REL, but once the REL was hooked up, YIKES!  Sitting close to the REL with the ACAs was amazing.  I couldn't stop listening.  This is where the ACAs and REL need to live.

Next Steps:

So, now that I'm a Basshead, I need to add subwoofers to the X-LS system.  Fortunately, I have two double trouble kits in house.  I've hesitated building them because I wanted to try veneering, another rabbit hole no doubt, but no excused anymore.  But what about amplification?  I have a feeling I'll want to replace the Vidar.  I saw the Elekit 8900 thread open up again, and that looks great, but that Pass sound from the ACAs has me hooked.  Is a Pass amp a better idea?  F5M?  Aleph Jzm?  And those NX-3 Bravo Towers are looking good.  What a great hobby!

Song List:

The Appeal - The Toadies
Kiko - Dead Can Dance
Where There is Smoke - Dominique Fils-Aime
Trampoline (Jauz Remix) - SHAED, Jauz    (wait for it at 1:08)
Sumac - (from "Pluribus") Loris

[Tyson]

It is confirmed, you are a bass head.  Welcome to the club.  Also the Double Trouble's are going to blow your mind.  And veneering is not that hard.  Watch a few of Peter's videos and you're all set. 

If you want to try an Elekit, I have an excellent one for sale here https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650289740-elekit-tu-8233-300b-2a3-premium/

[nlitworld]

Great to hear of a fun desk setup. Just a thought, but for those ACA and the LGKs, they may both benefit from running a high pass filter to offload below 80hz or so. Let the REL fill in underneath but it'll bring back a ton of headroom capability and further smooth out the lower midrange in the speakers. Keep us all posted on your journey.

[BlindFalcon]

Thanks for the offer on the Elekit, but I think I'll work on the subs first, that and the coffee table my wife has been asking for, ha!  And the Bluesound Node has a filter built in, currently set at 70hz.  I appreciate the suggestions though, and I'll need more as I progress.  I'll post the double trouble build as I get moving on it.  Gotta order some No Rez.

[BrandonB]

It is confirmed, you are a bass head.  Welcome to the club.  Also the Double Trouble's are going to blow your mind.  And veneering is not that hard.  Watch a few of Peter's videos and you're all set. 

If you want to try an Elekit, I have an excellent one for sale here https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650289740-elekit-tu-8233-300b-2a3-premium/

I don't know much about tubes can you tell me the difference between this and the miller audio amplifiers.

[Tyson]

I don't know much about tubes can you tell me the difference between this and the miller audio amplifiers.

Sure thing.  There's 2 types of amps in tube land.  Single Ended and Push Pull.  You can tell which is which by the # of tubes.  If you see only 1 output tube per channel, it's Single Ended.  If you see 2 (or more!) then it's Push Pull.

Generally speaking, push pull will give you more power which is important if you have a low efficiency speaker with difficult impedance curves.  Single Ended amps have less power but (IMO) more magic.

Miller's amps are push pull amps and the Elekit is a single ended amp.

[BrandonB]

Sure thing.  There's 2 types of amps in tube land.  Single Ended and Push Pull.  You can tell which is which by the # of tubes.  If you see only 1 output tube per channel, it's Single Ended.  If you see 2 (or more!) then it's Push Pull.

Generally speaking, push pull will give you more power which is important if you have a low efficiency speaker with difficult impedance curves.  Single Ended amps have less power but (IMO) more magic.

Miller's amps are push pull amps and the Elekit is a single ended amp.

How can you tell what an output tube is?

[Early B.]

How can you tell what an output tube is?

An output tube is another term for a power tube. For example, if it's a 300B amp, the output tube is 300B.

[Danny Richie]

Your biggest improvement will be to get those speakers away from those bare walls and add some room treatment.

[Kelly T]

I have several configurations of the Aleph Jzm and the F5M both are very good, I prefer that Aleph Jzm in dual mono.

KTS

[BlindFalcon]

I appreciate the feedback.  Unfortunately, I think the way the order of room changes would be 1. move the speakers away from the wall, 2. add some wall treatments, and 3. divorce.  Just kidding, my wife is very tolerant, but we don't really have the space or inclination for wall hanging.  The good news is, it looks like a side garage/man cave/wood shop/listening room is on the table.  With any luck, I'lll be able to build something that really supports an improving and growing system.

[corndog71]

Your Saga+ can be tweaked with better output caps.  I put Clarity Cap PUR Series in mine.  I think they sound better than the stock Wima caps but as always your mileage may vary.  Another fun tweak is getting one of Schiit’s LISST “tubes”.  It sounds better than it has any right to and beat the 6SN7 that came with the Saga+.  It’s also a nice backup if your tube dies.

[BlindFalcon]

Thanks Corndog, those Saga tweaks sound like fun.  I’ve looked at the LISST tubes, but mostly when thinking about upgrading to the Schiit Freya.  They always seem to be out of stock, but I’ll keep checking.  I also just ordered the Aleph Jzm kit from DIY Audio.

[Tyson]

I have an Aleph J and it only requires one mod to fully optimize it.  The little red caps on the output board are ok but not elite.  Changing them out for something like Miflex poly/copper caps or Mundorf silver/gold/oil will bring it to top tier sound wise.

[Kelly T]

I have an Aleph J and it only requires one mod to fully optimize it.  The little red caps on the output board are ok but not elite.  Changing them out for something like Miflex poly/copper caps or Mundorf silver/gold/oil will bring it to top tier sound wise.

Tyson,
I have been using Vcap ODAM the only caveat is burn in, it takes some time remove the forward character and calm them down. The detail and punch are exceptional, at least in my system. I will try the Miflex as as stand alone and a bypass.

KTS

[Jaytor]

Sure thing.  There's 2 types of amps in tube land.  Single Ended and Push Pull.  You can tell which is which by the # of tubes.  If you see only 1 output tube per channel, it's Single Ended.  If you see 2 (or more!) then it's Push Pull.

Generally speaking, push pull will give you more power which is important if you have a low efficiency speaker with difficult impedance curves.  Single Ended amps have less power but (IMO) more magic.

Miller's amps are push pull amps and the Elekit is a single ended amp.

This isn't necessarily true. Some single ended amps use two output tubes in parallel. This is most common with 300B amps, typically referred to as a PSET (parallel single ended triode) amp. These will provide approximately double the power (15 to 16 watts) of a single tube 300B.

Most amps (although certainly not all) that use triode power tubes (300B, 2A3, 45, etc.) are built as single ended amps.

Most amps that use pentode power tubes (EL34, EL84, KT88, KT120, etc) are built as push pull amps. Again, there are exceptions. These amps are more efficient and can typically provide significantly more power than single ended amps, but have a different sound signature compare to SET amps.

Many (most?) SET amps are built with zero global negative feedback. This is possible because triodes (particularly directly heated triodes such as the few I mentioned) are very linear devices. The distortion profile of these amps is predominantly second order harmonics which add a sweetness to the sound with exceptional sound stage width and depth. But the lack of feedback also means they have a fairly high output impedance so are more sensitive to speaker matching and can sometimes result in less controlled bass performance.

Push-pull amps, on the other hand, typically (there are exceptions with class A push-pull amps) use negative feedback to reduce the crossover distortion and improve linearity, resulting in a lower output impedance and fewer speaker incompatibility problems.  But the push-pull nature of these amps cancels most of the pleasing second harmonic distortion resulting in a distortion profile that is third harmonic dominant with more higher order harmonics.

So the best choice comes down to speaker matching and personal preference.