[BadDNA]

Hi gang,

I own the M225 mono amps and was wondering what the input gain is on these from the factory.

I ask because a friend brought over a pair of the Orchard Audio StarKrimson 25 mono amps to compare. Those required the volume on the preamp to be boosted significantly to get the sensitivity to match. Those have a factory gain setting of 21.5db.

Any help is appreciated!

[Mary]

Hello BadDNA,

The M225 amplifier has a gain of about 33dB.

Mary

[Charles Xavier]

With a lower gain there is supposed to be less noise. Which sound do you like the 33db gain or the 21.5db regardless of being 2 different amps.

[BadDNA]

With a lower gain there is supposed to be less noise. Which sound do you like the 33db gain or the 21.5db regardless of being 2 different amps.

Well, we attempted to level match as much as possible via the volume knob on my Parasound P6 and an old analog Rat Shack SPL meter. I let my two buddies do most of the listening, playing the same track through both sets of amps. It dawned on me at the end of the session that, although we adjusted the main volume, that only affected the main speakers which are crossed at 80hz, then my dual Rythmik F12 subs take over. We hadn't accounted for the volume the subs were playing, so when we raised the pre volume it increased the volume of the subs per usual and we had a huge bass boost that no one realized.

I will say that vocals/midrange seemed more pronounced with the GanFet amps, "Maybe" more clarity? The guy who brought them had them on loan from Orchard as part of an audition tour list and shipped them off today to the next person. He loves how they do vocals and plans to purchase the bare amp modules to use in his own DIY tri-amp setup just to power the mids. He said as soon as I played vocals through the M225's right after the GanFet amps, he could easily tell the difference. He could pick out the Class A/B signature vs the GanFets. Mainly that there seemed to be "noise" around the vocals with my amps, but a black background with the GanFet amps. My other buddy is more focused on soundstaging/imaging and gave the M225's the easy win. Either way, they are impressive for how lightweight and small they are.

[BadDNA]

Hello BadDNA,

The M225 amplifier has a gain of about 33dB.

Mary

Thank you Mary! Has anyone ever requested having the gain lowered on the M225's? I wonder if that would remove any percieved noise my friend said he heard.

[Charles Xavier]

Well, we attempted to level match as much as possible via the volume knob on my Parasound P6 and an old analog Rat Shack SPL meter. I let my two buddies do most of the listening, playing the same track through both sets of amps. It dawned on me at the end of the session that, although we adjusted the main volume, that only affected the main speakers which are crossed at 80hz, then my dual Rythmik F12 subs take over. We hadn't accounted for the volume the subs were playing, so when we raised the pre volume it increased the volume of the subs per usual and we had a huge bass boost that no one realized.

I will say that vocals/midrange seemed more pronounced with the GanFet amps, "Maybe" more clarity? The guy who brought them had them on loan from Orchard as part of an audition tour list and shipped them off today to the next person. He loves how they do vocals and plans to purchase the bare amp modules to use in his own DIY tri-amp setup just to power the mids. He said as soon as I played vocals through the M225's right after the GanFet amps, he could easily tell the difference. He could pick out the Class A/B signature vs the GanFets. Mainly that there seemed to be "noise" around the vocals with my amps, but a black background with the GanFet amps. My other buddy is more focused on soundstaging/imaging and gave the M225's the easy win. Either way, they are impressive for how lightweight and small they are.

I know who you are talking about. He has a great build on these amps.

[SJ David]

Well, we attempted to level match as much as possible via the volume knob on my Parasound P6 and an old analog Rat Shack SPL meter. I let my two buddies do most of the listening, playing the same track through both sets of amps. It dawned on me at the end of the session that, although we adjusted the main volume, that only affected the main speakers which are crossed at 80hz, then my dual Rythmik F12 subs take over. We hadn't accounted for the volume the subs were playing, so when we raised the pre volume it increased the volume of the subs per usual and we had a huge bass boost that no one realized.

I will say that vocals/midrange seemed more pronounced with the GanFet amps, "Maybe" more clarity? The guy who brought them had them on loan from Orchard as part of an audition tour list and shipped them off today to the next person. He loves how they do vocals and plans to purchase the bare amp modules to use in his own DIY tri-amp setup just to power the mids. He said as soon as I played vocals through the M225's right after the GanFet amps, he could easily tell the difference. He could pick out the Class A/B signature vs the GanFets. Mainly that there seemed to be "noise" around the vocals with my amps, but a black background with the GanFet amps. My other buddy is more focused on soundstaging/imaging and gave the M225's the easy win. Either way, they are impressive for how lightweight and small they are.

So I understand, you had your sub's output balanced with the M225's higher gain at a fixed volume on the P6 per your usual listening preference. When the Orchard amp was installed, the lower gain required that you adjust the preamp volume up to approximate the same listening level as with the M225. But, you had not re-balanced the sub output level based upon the Orchard's lower gain and so you had the subs running too high compared to the mains? Then, when you installed the M225s back you had to lower the preamp volume but the overall output then was balanced with the sub output as before?

[BadDNA]

So I understand, you had your sub's output balanced with the M225's higher gain at a fixed volume on the P6 per your usual listening preference. When the Orchard amp was installed, the lower gain required that you adjust the preamp volume up to approximate the same listening level as with the M225. But, you had not re-balanced the sub output level based upon the Orchard's lower gain and so you had the subs running too high compared to the mains? Then, when you installed the M225s back you had to lower the preamp volume but the overall output then was balanced with the sub output as before?

Correct. I did enjoy a bit of boosted bass though, so I've used the bass gain knob on the front of the P6 and have given the subs a few db's of boost.

[SJ David]

Maybe the boosted bass level is actually where it should be and before it was too low. I always had "fun" working with subs.

I bought the M225 amps earlier this year and have really enjoyed them since.

I would prefer the amp gain to be lower since I use balanced connections from the DAC through a preamp (need to keep my analog inputs in play) and then out to the M225s. Plenty of gain in that configuration. But it all works just fine for me. No sense of any noise around vocals or otherwise. It's a very good amplifier, for sure.

[nigelnaim]

I purchased the M225 in 2023.  When I tested them in my home and in a few systems, I thought that they were too bright.  I talked to Frank and he said I could ship them back and he could lower the gain.  Instead I opted to return them.  Not sure if you contact AVA if this is an available option.

[BadDNA]

Maybe the boosted bass level is actually where it should be and before it was too low. I always had "fun" working with subs.

I bought the M225 amps earlier this year and have really enjoyed them since.

I would prefer the amp gain to be lower since I use balanced connections from the DAC through a preamp (need to keep my analog inputs in play) and then out to the M225s. Plenty of gain in that configuration. But it all works just fine for me. No sense of any noise around vocals or otherwise. It's a very good amplifier, for sure.

I used REW to setup the subs in my room with a MiniDSP 2X4HD EQ'ing them. Levels were calibrated with the UMIK-1 to be balanced with the mains, even adding a slight rising curve as the frequency went lower, so I know they are "technically" correct. I was just enjoying the added boost a bit!

The Orchard amps definitely had a different presentation. Which was better would be up to the person listening and their preferences.

[BadDNA]

I purchased the M225 in 2023.  When I tested them in my home and in a few systems, I thought that they were too bright.  I talked to Frank and he said I could ship them back and he could lower the gain.  Instead I opted to return them.  Not sure if you contact AVA if this is an available option.

As I mentioned in my previous post, each listener has their preferences. I have not found the M225's to be bright. Between both of my friends who were listening, the one who brought the GanFet amps preferred their vocals/mids over the M225's, but he liked the highs from the M225's better. Since he's running a tri-amped speaker setup with an external crossover/processor he simply use the GanFet to power the mids and not worry about the highs from it.

My other friend preferred the M225's pretty much across the board, but he's more of an imaging/soundstage guy and loves how the M225's do that, as well as being smoother in the high frequencies.

I enjoyed the Orchard amps but do not think it would be worth going from the M225's to them. Just different flavors.