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This video explains why some audio gear has astronomical prices: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XrQcVamTnfwI thought it was interesting. I wasn't familiar with the role of AV integrators for wealthy individuals.
The video also implies that high-end audio products aren't designed for audiophiles, per se, but for wealthy individuals who don't know the difference or don't care. The sound is secondary, and the real customer isn't the end user, but the middleman.
Integrators though... interesting... So they get a kickback from the mfg'er, and then also charge the client for their time and expertise? That sounds amazing if you do not consider the ethics, but even when you do I'm not sure it's so horrible.
My first comment on “OMA Buyer's Guide for Billionaires” is what Weiss in an accusatory voice labels ‘kickbacks’ are dealer’s margin for the equipment sold. I find it beyond belief that Jonathan would arrange to host this potential billionaire buyer’s representative who flew across the Atlantic to see and hear OMA gear without expecting to offer this integrator a dealership for OMA and the resulting margin. Or at least forewarn him all the integrator’s expenses and profit will need to be paid by the client. Does he expect this integrator to pay full list for a $300,000+ Oswalds Mill Audio (OMA) Imperia speaker system and on the integrator’s dime transport crates with a ton of gear to Europe or the Middle East or Asia and install it just for the fun of it?
It's 100% unethical for five reasons: 1) The integrator isn't disclosing this kickback to the buyer. If the buyer were aware of it, the integrator would probably be fired. 2) The sale doesn't happen without the kickback, which is unfair to the manufacturer. 3) The buyer may not receive the best option, which is the reason he hired the integrator. 4) Kickbacks significantly increase the price for everyone, and the inflated price isn't a fair representation of the true value of the product.5) Kickbacks are illegal and lead to corruption.Yes, we live in a world where this kind of stuff happens all the time, but that doesn't make it right. Businesspeople have to make these decisions every day, and many will suspend their moral code for an extra dollar.
"Let me tell you about the very rich. They are different from you and me," F. Scott Fitzgerald from "The Rich Boy," short story.I watched Jonathan Weiss’ “OMA Buyer's Guide for Billionaires” with experience from both sides. I see from the comments here and on YouTube many like his take on the subject. My opinion is he is being a bit rigid and ultimately something of the old man shaking his fist and yelling at the sky because the world is less than perfect, not to his liking.During my decades as an audiophile now in the terminal phase having become a HiFi equipment manufacturer there was a period in the early 2000s when I went to work for the local high end HiFi shop after being their customer for years. With brands like Focal, Revel, Meridian, Classe, Proceed, Magnepan, B&W, and Paradigm this shop had been a fixture of the area for dedicated two channel audiophiles. By the 2000s they were also into the new business of AV integration, the boogieman of Weiss’ piece. For us that was whole house audio, lighting control, home theaters, media rooms, and critically programming the control systems that make it all work together. The level of complexity of the hardware, software, and custom programming involved is such that I was hired as a project manager because in this lovely pre-9/11 pre-DOT.com bubble bursting years they had on the books multiple $250,000 projects. Not a quarter million dollar house, that cost just for the AV, lighting control, and automation.My first comment on “OMA Buyer's Guide for Billionaires” is what Weiss in an accusatory voice labels ‘kickbacks’ are dealer’s margin for the equipment sold. I find it beyond belief that Jonathan would arrange to host this potential billionaire buyer’s representative who flew across the Atlantic to see and hear OMA gear without expecting to offer this integrator a dealership for OMA and the resulting margin. Or at least forewarn him all the integrator’s expenses and profit will need to be paid by the client. Does he expect this integrator to pay full list for a $300,000+ Oswalds Mill Audio (OMA) Imperia speaker system and on the integrator’s dime transport crates with a ton of gear to Europe or the Middle East or Asia and install it just for the fun of it? Maybe he does, perhaps Oswalds Mill Audio is a luxury brand like Ferrari where if you are their kind of client and spend enough you are allowed to buy the top models at full list price, and always with many of the expensive upgrades. If “OMA Buyer's Guide for Billionaires” raised your blood pressure be careful watching this video about what it takes to qualify for the highest spec Ferraris. The short answer is after spending ~$23,000,000 then you can be on the list for the new F80 halo model.I Expose the Truth on what it takes to become a Ferrari VIP https://youtu.be/IYD8_MteLV0?si=doUaUuKfRHe4x5LLThis reality of ultra-luxury goods that for many brands artificial exclusivity is baked in by requiring buying your way up the models until you ‘qualify’ for access to the highest spec most sought after top models. This brings up my next comment which is some audiophiles are millionaires (or better yet billionaires) but far and away most millionaires and billionaires are not audiophiles. Jonathan Weiss’ video to me boils down to he wants the wealthy client to become hands-on gear-nerd audiophiles who buy OMA and then join our tribe positioning the speakers dialing them in an inch/CM at a time then move on to tweaking the turntable’s SRA setting. My experience working with wealthy clients is most are some mix of still working like mad at the businesses that made them their wealth and/or enjoying so many aspects of the lifestyle large wealth enables that there is no time for focusing undivided attention on has the bias of a tube amp wandered off specification. There are a few unicorns out there very wealthy audiophiles who are hands on lovers of the process. Those are the exceptions, most of our clients’ favorite aspect of our AV integration was our programmer was very good at programming the Crestron or other remote control systems to make it all easy to use and reliable. It was a rare treat to install items like the Revel Ultima Studios (Harmon really threw the cooperate checkbook at those first generation Revels) or the theater system using top specification Meridian electronics and speakers with a fine tuned Sony three gun projector fed by $40k professional video upsampler. Alas those were the exception; the usual design brief was all the speakers into the ceiling or walls to disappear and above all else it must be simple to use.And do not forget to take off your shoes and work in your stocking feet in the Master Suite. The carpet in there is a custom weave and cost $10,000.
#5 Nope, kickbacks are perfectly legal here in CO.
Dave, it's OK to have a different point of view, but you went too far with this one. A 3-second Google search yields a plethora of documentation on Colorado's anti-kickback laws. Let's agree that, despite being illegal, kickbacks are a common practice in the business world, and no one is obligated to participate in them. The point of this thread isn't about kickbacks; it's about the ways in which high-end gear costs so much.
One thing integrators should be doing is to optimize your listening environment. It is the most neglected aspect of the whole playback system. But I doubt that they take that seriously.
I've been in sales for a good part of my younger years and kickbacks are indeed legal with very few exceptions for medical industry, etc. Maybe you don't really understand what a kickback is? You pay a kickback when someone refers a customer to you. This isn't complicated, it's not unethical in most circumstances, and it's the way the world works.
