[corloc]

O'  I would set give those b200's a work out before you listen.  It took 10 hrs for mine to be bearable, and 80 to 100 hrs. to break in.  You don't need anything fancy, just play music through the as loud as you can bear.

Chris

[Rafal]

What do you guys think about this baffle design:
height: 48"
center panel width:10"
inner panel width:12"
Outer panel width:14"
Driver height: 30" (floor to centre)
material: 5/8" maple ply with a layer of cork on the back side.

I'm ready to make the cuts but I don't want to make any crucial mistakes.

Cheers,

Rafal

[mcgsxr]

I don't see any glaring problem with that design, it is pretty close to what I run.

I would be prepared for a perceived lack of bass initially, depending on how long the b200's have been run, what amp you pair them with, and the room size etc.

Make some sawdust!

[Rafal]

The amp is Charilze, and I really hope it will be loud enough even with the notch filter. The room is pretty big (kind of L shape with 23'x23' longest distances). I want to have as little components as possible (the simpler the better) and will innitially try it without the filter. Later on, I may end up getting a nice tube amp.
Have you guys tried tube amps with B200 ob? What worked well?

[mcgsxr]

I have not heard the Charlize, but have certainly heard good things about it.

I have a room that is 35x25, unfinished basement, so I have a large room.

I am presently running a 1950's Magnavox single ended EL-84 amp, approx 5wpc, with the best sound I have heard (outside of MarkC's monoblocks).  I have run the b200 with many amps - Teac tripath, Panny digital receiver, JVC hybrid digital receiver, gainclone, modded Tripath amps, MarkC's hybrid tube fet amps, and the Maggie.

Good luck!

[Rafal]

Thanks Mark,

Do you know where I can get more info on MarkC monoblocks? It's interesting that you are using a vintage amp. i was thinking myself about getting a Marantz1060, or Sansui or Dynaco.

Cheers,

Rafal
p.s.
Where are you located?

[dewar]

Got mine up and running last week

9.5"/10"/13" x 48" panels with wings back 60 degrees. Diver centred 26" from floor. Front of centre panel covered in black polar fleece, back of all 3 panels covered in thinner cotton stuff.

Well I can say these surpass even the massive expectation I had after reading this entire thread. This is the best sound I've heard in my system yet, having owned Dynaudio Focus 140's and Zu Tones, both of which I really like. That it leaves me with enough money for a holiday really is an added bonus.

I can add much to what been said. They have the speed I enjoyed with the Zu's, detail is good, tone is accurate, frequency response is fine, but most important is the spacial aspect they bring to the party. Very real in a word.

Another word that comes to mind is coherent. My last speakers, th Zu's, sometimes left me with the feeling that all the instruments werent on the same same page, so to speak. They were well separated with nice battery powered blackness between them, but somehow they felt like a collection of parts. Now the sound is more unified for want of a better word.

The only thing they give up to my previous monitors is pinpoint imaging. But they still image well enough for me.

I think a second pair of B200's might be in my distant future, or a DEQ2496, just to see if I can get the freqency response a bit flatter. I am happy with it as is, but would like to try for a bit more lower midrange presence and the lowest crossover possible for my sub. The supposed rising high end is not noticable to me, infact listning at low volumes as I often do it is probably a welcome thing.

Bass is pretty good even without the sub. Today I put on Modern Cool and didn't even notice till near the end of the disk that I hadnt switched my sub on. I measure flat to 50hz in my room which is better than I had led to be expected.

I'm busy making a 3" high add on plinth that with also allow a bit of backwards tilt.

Would like to ask all concerned what how they have their OB's set up as far as toe-in and distance to speakers?

Many thanks to those who have contributed here and kept the fire going. May it spread far and wide.

cheers

Bevan

p.s thinking of trying a "tubilizer" to go with my Monica and Clari-t. wondering what a bit of glow might add?

[opnly bafld]

Nice post Bevan,
Thanks.
Toe and distance is room related and therefore takes some experimenting.
What works in one room may not work in another room.

Enjoy,
Lin

[mcgsxr]

Agreed that experimentation is the order of the day for toe in and speaker distance.

Mine are roughly 7 feet apart (inner edge to inner edge), roughly 7 feet from me, and aimed one at each ear - so toed in significantly, but not crossed in front of me - though I have played with that too.

I am in Burlington, Ontario, Canada, roughly 30 minutes from Toronto, on the West side of the GTA.

MarkC's amps are best explained by him, drop him a PM, and I am sure he can help you understand all about them - I am not affiliated in any way, other than having heard them, and loved them!

[corloc]

I toe mine slightly out,

"The only thing they give up to my previous monitors is pinpoint imaging. But they still image well enough for me"

Try putting the polar fleece on the back of the baffle, and my be on the rest of the back of the wings also.  (To Taste)  It help imaging a great deal with mine.  I use sill insulation from home depot.  A roll for $6.00 did both of my big baffles with some to spare.

Chris

[dewar]

thanks for the input guys.

Corloc, I've never heard of anyne toeing their speakers out, if its what I think you mean. Will try today to see how little toe in I can get away with while still keeping a sharp centre focus.

b.

[Rafal]

Hi Folks,

So I finished my baffles and installed the B200 drivers. They are driven by Charlize and without any filters, the Charlize is certainly powerful enough. After playing them for 2 days, I find that I can bearly hear anything below 80hz, therefore I will be adding a sub. The bafles I built look nice, but are HUGE! 4ft tall and 3ft wide. Definately not acceptable. What would you say is the smallest baffle I can get away with? I was thinking about something like 25" wide and 30" tall with a driver centered around 20" from the ground and tilted back 8deg? I know it will produce less bass but I want to get at least 100hz so I can still integrate the sub.

Lastly, how long did you find the brake in period to take?

Cheers,

Rafal

[markC]

Rafal'

It may be a good idea to post on the Open baffle circle as you'll likely get more readers on the subject. I'll respond later to your post over there.

[corloc]

"Lastly, how long did you find the brake in period to take?"

For me after 100 hrs. any change was subjective.  It's a little odd with these drivers.  You can easily tell the difference between recordings.  So, I don't recommend doing tweaks or changes to baffle quickly.  You may be just hearing the difference between recordings.

Chris

[-Richard-]

Hi Corloc ~

Subjective is certainly the operative word in audio... however, I have been playing my B200's
in OB practically every day for perhaps a year and there are still changes that are noticeable.

I am not referring to changes to the "sound" of the musical presentation...
but rather the inner life of the music... particularly the textural detail... the authenticity of the
"color" of instruments that render themselves in an ever more palpable and startling
3-dimensional "presence."

If I was depending on my own perception of what I am hearing, I would certainly be in trouble!!

But fortunately, Deb, is the first to point out these wonderful musical epiphanies to me...
Deb is very grounded and balanced in her response to life... so I feel confident that if she
hears these "emerging" textural qualities in the music that were not there before, then I can
safely say that it is not merely my "mood" that is altering my perception.

Subjective, indeed. But the B200's in OB seem to reveal more over time. That leads me to
suggest that 1000 hours may be necessary for these drivers to finally open-up and
achieve the transparency that they are fully capable of!!!!!

Warmest Regards... and a lovely, healthy, joyous new year to all our friends on AC!!!
~ Richard

[corloc]

Hi, Richard, Happy New Year!

I've got about 600 to 700 hrs. on mine.  I have to say that it is difficult to say what has changed, system or drivers.

In the last 3 months I have had my listening room go from 14' x 24' to 12' x 12' with a 8' x 10' dormer attached oddly. 

I went from a el84 ultra linear PP to a chip amp  http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=82953.  The chip amp has a lot more control over the drivers, and sound great.

My daughter pushed in the dust caps of the b200's, and I got a pair of Planet 10 phase plugs.  Larger sweet spot, better top end, excellent build, and worth the price.

Now I have gone from my Marantz cc-48 cd player to a Slim Devises Squeeze Box.  To early to tell but very nice to start.

My biggest problem right now is redoing the baffle for the smaller space.

I will not disagree with Richard,  His and his wives opinion is just as valid as mine.  I just haven't heard the same thing.  Regardless, the B200's are astonishing drivers, and I haven't had any interest in finding new main drivers.

[-Richard-]

Hi Corloc ~

Nice looking amp over at DIY! Since you built one yourself, you must be rather handy with
a soldering iron and have a rather good understanding of how these kinds of circuits work...
nice going!!

My set-up is a bit unusual which may be contributing to the all-over nature of the "development"
I am referring to. I am running my Bipole speakers along with my OB's... they are driven by
the same CD player (a cheapy) through a splitter RCA cable... they fire behind my OB's side-ways.

Also I am using the exact same step-correction-circuit that Vinnie recommended to me.
Thanks, Vinnie!!!!!!!!

It allows the B200's to more fully flesh out the lower to mid frequencies. Some of the upper
frequency material is just a bit shelved down in absolute terms... however when listening to
music there is no sense of lack... the shimmering of brass or the violin's exquisite silken
upper register is all there beautifully resolved.

I run the Bipoles full range... however I keep the volume quite a bit lower than on the B200's...
so what I am hearing essentially is the B200's.

Also, the music I listen to may be contributing to my perception as well.

The point I am trying to make is that the "potential" is there for these speakers in OB
to resolve music is a way neither I nor Deborah have ever heard before... regardless of price!!!!

My most sincere advice for everyone who has built an OB is this: please keep trying new possible
ways to implement them into your listening space... ancillary equipment, room correction
(I use nothing), combining other speakers (or subwoofer) and so on. In that way you could
be turning "very good" into "totally outrageously fantastic"!!!

In my house, every day is an fantastic musical delight!!!!!!!!!!!

Warm Regards ~ Richard

[mcgsxr]

Corloc - lots of similarities in our systems I see, though I went from chip amp to EL84, so you just never can tell!  I love my SB3 modded by Wayne, my front end for a long time to come I bet.

Interesting comments about Dave's plugs for the b200 - are they really tough to install?

Thanks for continuing to share,

[corloc]

"Nice looking amp over at DIY! Since you built one yourself, you must be rather handy with
a soldering iron and have a rather good understanding of how these kinds of circuits work...
nice going!!"

Thanks, decent at soldering, and I know enough electronics not to get myself electrocuted.

I'm more of a tinkerer.  That is why I like the DarkStar and OB circles.  There seems to be a lot of good minds about. 

"My most sincere advice for everyone who has built an OB is this: please keep trying new possible ways to implement them into your listening space... ancillary equipment, room correction (I use nothing), combining other speakers (or subwoofer) and so on. In that way you could be turning "very good" into "totally outrageously fantastic"!!!"

I agree, I had the B200's with my Warrior 15" on larger fix winged baffles, and not only was the sound fantastic but visceral.  In a smaller room visceral turns to obscene.  I'm probably going to buy a plate amp and run one warrior on a small separate baffle.

O' I'm also using a notch filter. 1.5mh and 5 ohm resister mentioned a long time ago in this thread.  It's alright, but I will be trying the 1mh, 10 ohm later.

"Interesting comments about Dave's plugs for the b200 - are they really tough to install?"

No it was relatively easy, but I had cut my teeth on my Fe206e's a while ago.  Ductcapectomys take mostly patience.

"I love my SB3 modded by Wayne,..."

Which mods and how did it change the SB3? 

[planet10]

I got a pair of Planet 10 phase plugs.  Larger sweet spot, better top end, excellent build, and worth the price.

These are now in limited regular production (in black only) .

A play-by-play of a B200 dustcapectomy

http://homepage.mac.com/tlinespeakers/FAL/B200-surgery/B200-surgery.html

Because of the very thick & dense glue used (and sometimes off-centre dustcap), the B200 is the most intensive driver i have done.

dave

PS. Chris, can i quote your comment above?