Gravity Well Of A DarkStar

JiffyBoob · « **Reply #540 on:** 10 May 2006, 01:38 am »

Looks good, especially the surgery. Who did the dustcap-ectomy? The cones are soo tough I wouldn't touch it without surgical implements. I am a surgeon, maybe I should offer B200 lifts. B200 Of LaJolla.

Has the owner or author been able to make any remarks or conclusions on the plug's effect? Is it less noticeable without an evil wizzer cone? If Planet 10 could comment, perhaps we need to examine moving ahead with the phase plug mod. PLUS, they are very nicely finished, congrats to Dave D, nice job. Gotta love those PROACTIVE audio guys from Canada.

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #541 on:** 10 May 2006, 02:38 am »

Scott machined the plugs and Dave with the delicate hands did the surgery. No one has heard them as of yet... Dave will be doing that over the next week before shipping them back home to me.

I have absolutely no complaints about the sound of the stock B200. It is by far... very, very far... the best driver bar none that I have ever heard. A very big THANK YOU to Dmason for bringing this driver to my attention. The B200 in open baffle is something one has to experience to grasp what this is all about. It makes everything else regardless of the cost, that I have heard, sound pedestrian at best.

corloc · « **Reply #542 on:** 10 May 2006, 02:40 am »

JiffyBoob,

Does haveing the second set of b200's crossed at around 250hz cause problem with the sound stage? As in pin pointing where things are. Also are you useing passive or active crossing?

Chris

JiffyBoob · « **Reply #543 on:** 10 May 2006, 03:10 am »

Windchaser

I agree completely with your assessment of the B200 on open baffle. These DarkStars for almost a year made it genuinely difficult to leave the house in the morning for work, and this never was the case. Pedestrian is a word I would ascribe to about every other speaker I have listened to over the last year, in comparison to the B200, and I am SURE that Richard, and Mark Of Canada, would agree. Stunning stuff. Thanks for throwing that down. I also want to say thanks for acknowledging the fact that Dmason was the one who beat the point to death about this stuff til people started getting the message first hand. I mention again that the double DarkStar B200 set up is Dmason's, and that he even delivered them to my place. He is in Tijuana for a couple days, performing pro bono anesthesia in the bowels of that Fourth World shit-hole. What a champ of a heathen surf-rat, huh JLM?

Corloc,

The filters for this rig are passive, so I could enjoy. Thoughtful. Generous. I believe HP >150? LP<280 something like that. The DS set up and his own stuff is all actively filtered and contoured using some wild pro audio rack mounted box that is controlled by computer.

opnly bafld · « **Reply #544 on:** 10 May 2006, 03:33 am »

Thank you Dmason

I just wish he would have posted in another circle or gave more info in the title.
I ignored this thread for months, MONTHS, because I had no idea what it was about.

IIRC, I read what it was about it in another thread and spent considerable time reading the entire thing. (I just could not put the book down)
Needless to say I check more threads now to see what they are all about.

And I am enjoying the OB sound very much, so keep posting everybody.

PS This thread was started last May, it just keeps going and going.
Lin

jgpmhl · « **Reply #545 on:** 10 May 2006, 03:40 am »

Alright. I've read the whole thread (after DMason and Mark the Canuck distracted me from my glass boxes and Jiffyboob the Surgeon made me aware of it) and I have figured it out: it's audio-pornography.

This is bad. It's going to cost me a fortune. I'll need a router. I have to dampen my house.

I promise I'll send photos.

JGPMHL

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #546 on:** 10 May 2006, 12:31 pm »

Arrrgggghhhh, CAN'T....RESIST...MUCH...LONGER.....

There is that pull from the gravity well. I'm ordering a pair of B200s (recall that I ordered them a while back, and then gave them to Louis and he came out with the Aperiodic 8s). Well, my empty acrylic baffles are looking at me every day and I've been meaning to fire them up again and this has been put off for too long.

So where are you guys in the USA ordering them from these days? The last time I ordered, it was from Germany. I thought I remember reading that there is someone in the USA now selling them? I want to get these back in ASAP...

Thanks,

Dmason · « **Reply #547 on:** 10 May 2006, 12:45 pm »

In the US, call Andre Perreault at www.e-speakers.com

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #548 on:** 10 May 2006, 12:59 pm »

Quote from: Dmason

In the US, call Andre Perreault at www.e-speakers.com

Hi Dmason,

That's the guy...thanks.

BTW, the iPod that I modded (iMod) has a lot of EQ setting for boosting the bass. I'll try them with the B200s and let you all know how it works out.

iMod (perhaps with bass EQ) >> Signature 30 >> B200 OBs

Let's see what happens. I'm ordering the B200s today..

Dmason · « **Reply #549 on:** 10 May 2006, 01:05 pm »

iMod + Signature 30 + [2B200]

this equation would be very hard to beat if the ipod has EQ with a bass shelf <150Hz or so. that is an interesting factoid, Vino. Tell us more.

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #550 on:** 10 May 2006, 01:26 pm »

Quote from: Dmason

iMod + Signature 30 + [2B200]

this equation would be very hard to beat if the ipod has EQ with a bass shelf <150Hz or so. that is an interesting factoid, Vino. Tell us more.

The iPod has these EQ settings:

Off
Acoustic
Bass booster
Bass reducer
Classical
Dance
Deep
Electronic
Flat
Hip Hop
Jazz
Latin
Loudness
Lounge
Piano
Pop
R&B
Rock
Small speakers
Spoken word
Treble booster
Treble reducer
Vocal booster

Each of these settings have a custom FR curve that changes the sound, but I can't find the specs pertaining to what frequencies are boosted/reduced and by how much. A lot of them are subtle (but noticeable) changes.

Its funny because I remember trying the EQ out for the first time using headphones and thought that it really sucked (distorted sounds). It turns out that it sucks for the headphone output stage, but using the iMod (dedicated line out) into my amp, it is quite clean (well, most of them are).

I would think that a bass booster EQ or even a treble reducer setting might really gel with the B200 OBs. All the other setting give their own uniqiue flavor to the sound.

Forget the names of them....you just have to try them and see what sounds best. For example, you might find that the "acoustic" setting sounds better than the "jazz" setting for playing jazz. Or the "rock" setting sounds better than "classical" for classical music. They are unique curves and you may or may not like how they interact with your room, equipment, and tastes in sound. It's nice to mess around with though...

JoshK · « **Reply #551 on:** 10 May 2006, 02:17 pm »

You can also obtain the Visaton's from Solen.ca. However, I've been having issues with Canadian shipping in the last couple of months. I am still waiting on three shipments from canada.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #552 on:** 10 May 2006, 02:43 pm »

jgpmhl - mwaaahhhaaahaahaa! Welcome! I doubt it will really cost you that much. $350 for the drivers, around $50 for the rest of the materials, and if you have to pop for a router, then maybe another $100 or around that. All in, for around CDN$600-$700, you will sort out something interesting!

The idea of using multiple b200's is interesting, though for me I have three sticking points.

1 - to use a wide range driver, simply as a woofer, does not sit right with me for some reason. Sure, it sounds as though it works well, and integration should be a snap, but it just seems odd.
2 - I love the Hemi vs a pair of M3's reference - though in my mind, it is a pair of Hemi's vs a pair of M3's... but I know where you are coming from Jiffy, and since you have heard both the Lightstar, and Darkstar, it is interesting to see that you speak so highly of the double b200 configuration.
3 - the use of an Xover, no matter how simple, or well implemented, is against the theory of why this driver excites me so - please, I am all for biamping, and Xover another driver to supplement the bass to one's tastes, but to touch the full range signal to the b200 main, is out for me.

Pig headed? Oh, you bet, but it is the way I approach certain things, especially those that show me so much promise, and ROI on my investment so far.

So, is it possible that folks are loving what they are doing with b200's? Absolutely, and should they continue to share those ideas? For sure! But will I automatically try all those suggestions? No, and that certainly leaves me open to missing out on some exceptional advancements, but it also ensures that I am really happy with how I go about these little experiments.

Perhaps if I can pester a local AC'r Sarchi enough, he will buy some b200's, and then with 4 between us... we can try a few different implementations, and spend only time.

I really enjoy reading about how other members here use these, and other drivers, to drive their own satisfaction. I would love to hear some of the other speakers I read about, but given that I live pretty far from most of y'all, it is unlikely.

Many thanks to all who have contributed, and also to those who question the contributions - after all, if none balk at the ideas, and come with differing viewpoints, what fun would it really be?

For now, I will live with my simple OB's, in mdf, until I get the best config I think I can sort out, and then I will try some Baltic Birch, or solid hardwood, and apply cork, and some of the other excellent suggestions, to optimize the design.

Love this WIP!

JiffyBoob · « **Reply #553 on:** 10 May 2006, 04:15 pm »

Mark of Canada

I think you are getting ahead of yourself. The passive crossovers were done by Dmason only so I could listen to it using one amp. The idea was to use separate amps for each so as not to break the single driver laws of audio; no crossover allowed. Yes, the Lightstar is right next to the DarkStar and yes, BOTH work great, Mopar and BMW side by side. The BMW method is EASY folks!! Mopar if you are a Dukes of Hazzard country wheelin' kinda guy, BMW if you are more into space travel.

It is not so much using a B200 for woofer, in fact not at all, but to magnify the magnificence, and to extend the frequency response down to where a non dipole bass ...augmentation ...something can take over with less effort than four fifteen inch woofers in complex and expensive arrangements such as the two in my place, and STILL, a sub. Less stuff. It works VERY successfully just with the sub. It does not interfere with imaging because the upper driver is everything from somewhere under 200Hz up. It cannot interfere much at all. Sounds great. In fact, I agree that four B200's on open baffle DeathStar need to be explored. So I...

Ordered some more B200's because I don't think these are going back to the Garage-horn anytime soon!!

mcgsxr · « **Reply #554 on:** 10 May 2006, 06:07 pm »

Thanks for the clarification, I see what you mean now.

I guess we will have to sort out where I lie on the continuum between NASCAR, and NASA!

Vinnie R. · « **Reply #555 on:** 10 May 2006, 06:14 pm »

My B200's should be here on Friday! My baffles are all ready and I plan to have new ones made with different dimensions and wings....on my free time!

Hi Mark,

I saw your OBs posted here:
http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=27928

Nice job! I remember older pics of your OBs that didn't have the wings.
I apologize if you already discussed this, but how did the bass
change when you made the wings for them? More bass, deeper bass, etc.?

The reason I ask is because my acrylic OBs are 24"W x 42" tall, and I didn't get around to trying them with the wings. I'll either have to mod them, or just start over with new ones with different dimensions and wings...

Thanks,

-Richard- · « **Reply #556 on:** 10 May 2006, 06:33 pm »

Hi Jiiffyboob,

There is no doubt that your pros are scintillating and highly suggestive...
and like everyone on this thread I appreciate your sharing with us your
enthusiasm, information and experience with what is now both your
versions of the B200 implementations as put together by the inimitable
Dmason...

May I ask you however to be a bit more specific in explaining to us the
differences you are hearing between your first "dark star" variant and
your present double B200 solution...if you are not inclined to move us closer
than your present descriptions I entirely understand and bow deferentially
to your "native" use of automobile metaphors...

However, I am not terribly well informed about cars...and so I cannot grasp exactly
where your analogies are pointing...what is the qualitative differences in the
way music is reproduced by each method...assuming you have the time and
inclination to go more deeply into this...

Thanks for your kind consideration and help.

Warm Regards -Richard-

mcgsxr · « **Reply #557 on:** 10 May 2006, 07:06 pm »

Vinnie, in my limited experience with OB's, the shift from flat to folded baffle was minimal in terms of how the sound changes, as long as the folded portions are not beyond 60 degrees - by the time you close them in, and approach a simple open backed box, the mids get confused, the bass stays the same.

I think the biggest influence on bass, is effective baffle width, rather than configuration - so if folded is easier to manage, it is well worth exploring.

I notice over on the Hawthorne site, folks using open backed sonotubes... that is an interesting way to achieve effective baffle width, in a compact manner, no?

JiffyBoob · « **Reply #558 on:** 10 May 2006, 07:08 pm »

hi Richard

Sorry about the car analogy, just referring to that analogy made last year was fun. This is FUN for me.

I am not good at audio type expletives or even descriptions, but with two, there is more 'meat on the stick.' More presence and more dynamics in the midrange, and it extends much lower than one on its own. Mine are mounted very low to the floor which is parquet in the room and seems to aid in this bass effect from the low to the floor and sides, thing, with the lower B200. There is just more of everything and imaging is not affected, nor is imaging a big deal to me. Tone and presence and the whole B200 MAGIC are more important. The volume control is lower for a given volume, and the need for large and hidden dipole bass components is no more, so the absolute requirement for four fifteen inch woofers is out the window. Tomorrow I will try a sub, but things sound so fine, perhaps I will not even bother. Hope this at least helps some.

-Richard- · « **Reply #559 on:** 10 May 2006, 07:59 pm »

Wonderful Jiffyboob!!!

Actually your descriptions are very nicely shaped and give a very clear
and precise sense of what you are experiencing...

I deeply appreciate your taking the time to share that with us...very very
exciting indeed...

Yes...fun...I cannot agree with you more...except for the usual perfunctory
obligations mandated by our rather complex techno society...fun is the reason
I do everything...

Deb and I really do love music...more than that...we thrive with music...we do
not ingest anything that is mood altering...except for green tea!!! So music is
the vehicle that lifts us into the zone of feeling...the transcendent zone that
pierces the physical dimensions and transports us into the radiant elemental
energies of life's morphogenetic currents...I am most serious about this...

It is important to remember that music was once a powerful shamanistic
portal that allowed members of the tribe to move interdimensionally...to
enter states of mind that allowed them access to other worlds of perception...

Our relationship to music has not changed. The human organism still responds
to music in that way...even if the context in which music is listened to in our
present society is no longer linked to that kind of "travel"...in absolute terms...

So for Deborah and I, music is a powerful portal to profound depths of feeling...
it moves us to that oneness...that merging that we all crave with everything that
participates in the one consciousness...which is everything that has form within
the universe...it is our minds that seperate us from this elemental connection...
a shift from our connectedness in our distant historical past...the fall from Eden...
that shift of consciousness from contectedness...and the illusion of separatness...
is the cause of every misunderstanding, violence and conflcit in the world...

Music reinstates our connectness to that sense of the whole...

Thanks again, Jiffyboob...

Warm Regards -Richard-