Gravity Well Of A DarkStar

Dmason · « **Reply #500 on:** 8 Feb 2006, 02:53 am »

Dave,

I have heard the vintage Altec bi-cones, and wide range drivers, and they definitely have the trademark Altec sound of warmth mixed with good resolution, and there is no mistaking the AlNiCo sound on some of them. JBL LE-8, as well. Beauties, far sweeter than their Japanese clones, the Fostex F200A, yet very difficult to find. Glad you like them. They look great too. No buying into the hype there, oh no no...but you should try the Visaton B200, because it kills about any wide range driver on an open baffle, but needs at least 10 watts to do its thing.

Well, I have to write that the Gravity Well of the open baffle Rubik's Cube of Artful Combination is about to get some more pull: The Hawthorne Audio 15 inch bass driver, called, "The Augie." With a high Qts of .9 for its intended use/diameter, very reasonable SPL, and a Fs straight from the cellar, these babies are going to make things VERY interesting, perhaps even too interesting. I cannot wait to see a plot from them. They are well made, decent size magnets, and made carefully, by Eminence, likely based on the Delta 15LF, which I have used in the DarkStars I built. I have absolute faith in this company, Darrell Hawthorne, and this design.

NOW, with a True Full Range capability, into the void we go with the soon-to-be-fact ability of combining this big 15 with just about ANY driver, or combination, and I assure you, ALL drivers, properly implemented, ~should~ sound better on an open baffle; I have yet to find one that didn't, and have two specimens in my possession that are going to make terrific combos with the Hawthorne "Augie." Now, your favorite driver combinations can work on an open baffle, because even a lowish Q=.30 driver should resonate @SPL ~200Hz making the rest rather easy.

I anticipate a sound, and dynamic capability not far from LARGE theater horn rigs, but without all the madness, like huge cabinets and horn lenses. All of the Good, and NONE of the bad, is what is coming...

"Augie" makes me.....I remember ..."Aggies," which were Agriculture students, all wearing identical varsity jackets, like unintentional Aggie clones, the idea being to differentiate themselves from the rest of the science students, and in doing so becoming hundreds of carbon copies, ...but this is "Augie," and is like no other driver I have seen, nor like any Agriculture student seen using speakers, in a dorm, or apartment sound system. Like a deja that keeps vu vu vu-ing, Augies and Aggies... ...The medical students were the ones picking mushrooms out of the lawn on the quadrangle...constant experimentation. Even through the lens of the "colloidal kaleidescope."

mcgsxr · « **Reply #501 on:** 8 Feb 2006, 12:51 pm »

Ahhhhh, perhaps the bass creature that I have been pining for is close to arriving? Those 15's sound delightful to this junkie!

gilbodavid · « **Reply #502 on:** 9 Feb 2006, 06:40 pm »

Hello Dmason. Interesting comments. I've been thinking of getting some Altec 755C's to OB. I'm running in some Visaton B200's now on OB. 60 hrs and they're really starting to come alive. I'm hoping they'll be as good as my Quad 57's (with new treble pannels, which really lift them to anothr level). Have you any experience with 57's, and if so, how do you compare them to the B200's? I know i shall be able to do so personally properly after another 150 hrs on the Visatons, but i'm feeling impatient, and obviously hopeful!!

And i'm a bit puzzled by the Visatons being pretty much as difficult to drive as the Quads. This is puzzling me as their efficiencies are miles apart. I'm using a modified S Impact, SETmonoblocks, and a monster 70's sony amp that's seriously amazing and must be 150-200W. the first two amps should show rhe efficiencies obviously, shouldn't they? Thanks

Wind Chaser · « **Reply #503 on:** 1 Mar 2006, 04:16 pm »

David,

My initial reaction to the B200 was that the claimed 96 db @ 1 watt seemed inflated. But then I simultaneously ran a Jordan JX92S along side The JX92S is rated 88 db @ 1 watt. The B200 plays much louder at the same given volume. Not having a SPL meter makes it impossible to verify what the difference is, but let's just say that it is very substantial.

vanne d'air · « **Reply #504 on:** 12 Apr 2006, 06:49 pm »

Quote from: Wind Chaser

David,

My initial reaction to the B200 was that the claimed 96 db @ 1 watt seemed inflated. But then I simultaneously ran a Jordan JX92S along side The JX92S is rated 88 db @ 1 watt. The B200 plays much louder at the same given volume. Not having a SPL meter makes it impossible to verify what the difference is, but let's just say that it is very substantial.

Hi, I am new on this forum and I made a pair of solo 100, see at www.visaton.de.
Are there people with experience with this B200 in a ported boxe ?

thank

-Richard- · « **Reply #505 on:** 12 Apr 2006, 07:10 pm »

Hi vanne d'air,

Welcome to AudioCircle...

Yes...Louis Chochos of Omega Speakers is now using the B200 in one of his
ported cabinets: the Aperiodic 8:

http://www.omegaloudspeakers.com/aperiodic%208.htm

Take a look at it...I auditioned it in my home and it sounded astounding!!!!!!

Much more detail than in OB configuration...startling extension as well...

Warm Regards -Richard-

Dmason · « **Reply #506 on:** 12 Apr 2006, 07:16 pm »

Vanne d'Air

The Aperiodic 8 actually is "sealed," and has two Scan speak aperiodic vents for a very lossy cabinet, the Solo of course, is a double bass reflex of roughly 1XVas... I do not think there is anyone here whom has built the Solo or any BR load, however, there are numbers and calc's for a backloaded tractrix horn for the B200 on

www.zillaspeak.com look for BIB or find link on www.diyaudio.com under "Terry Cain's Bigger Is Better" thread which is currently very active. The BIB's are Krazy good for the B200 apparently, and my single fav. load for cabinet speakers. Godzilla is assembing a database of dimensions for various single drivers in a BIB load.

Please tell us about how you like the Solo 100 sound. Fantastic looking speaker. Pictures for the audience?

nodiak · « **Reply #507 on:** 12 Apr 2006, 10:26 pm »

The Augies have landed. Been here just a day. Have set them up on a very minimal flat baffle as have a very minimal room of 11.5' x 26.5' , and want to avoid room gain as much as possible. Narrow room but length makes it pretty decent. Anyway, plenty of bass, no problem there.
Have run them up a little past 300hz and the clarity is good. Enough so that I feel confident can xo to small Fostex and other low xmax drivers in OB above Augies. So far have hooked up Fostex FE107e, Coral 103a holey back, low end Tannoy ceiling coaxials (not too bad really). Will get to others soon, especialy 8" Hemps that are in another room breaking in.
Will be good to start hearing from others using Augies soon.
Will be biamping them and whatever else comes to mind over next few weeks. Currently just using passive first order xo and one amp while they break in.

Vanne d'Air will be good to hear any experiences with the B200.

Don

Dmason · « **Reply #508 on:** 12 Apr 2006, 11:38 pm »

Don

I have often wondered about liberating Tannoys, the System 6-8-10 or older DMT, from their boxes, and giving them some space. I really like the sound of the old Gold 12, so do alot of people, judging by the rotten amounts they go for on ePay. With alittle signal surgery, I would bet the 6.5 might be pretty hard to beat, I know what the System 600 sounds like, having owned a pair as keyboard monitors, very, very neutral, just the facts kind of sound, which, IMHO, might be really tasty with your non OS DAC of Peter Daniel. (Which I have on order)

Seeing as there is no more Clark Foam, this frees up ideas for Tannoy coaxials iffin you...

nodiak · « **Reply #509 on:** 13 Apr 2006, 03:40 pm »

I'd love to be innitiated into the Tannoy club, never heard any, but these elevator coax's, can't be the same at all. They sound pretty good in ob for sure (as most do) but the tweet couldn't handle higher spl's (failed the Pink Floyd test). They will go in .5 ft3 sealed for sale locally, and that way help the cause. I'll keep an eye out for a nicer Tannoy pair, when I recover from recent audio $pending spree.
Set up biamping with Augies, still passive xo for now. 8" Hemps going with Augies today, but they have quite a while to go for break-in. Considering phase plugs for them. Mids are so fine, treble isn't.
The Coral 103a are nice and smooth and work with Augie too. Also hope to get 10" KLH Model 6 woofer out of box to play soon, but will need to hook up a tweeter (Scan 9300).
Really great analog-ish dac.
Saving last two 7'6" clark blanks for a couple old man boards, I'll need 'em.

Don

vanne d'air · « **Reply #510 on:** 14 Apr 2006, 06:13 am »

I hope to have finish my solo100 end april. After I do critical test....
looking forward
regards

vanne d'air · « **Reply #511 on:** 24 Apr 2006, 10:01 am »

Quote from: nodiak

The Augies have landed. Been here just a day. Have set them up on a very minimal flat baffle as have a very minimal room of 11.5' x 26.5' , and want to avoid room gain as much as possible. Narrow room but length makes it pretty decent. Anyway, plenty of bass, no problem there.
Have run them up a little past 300hz and the clarity is good. Enough so that I feel confident can xo to small Fostex and other low xmax drivers in OB above Augies. So far have hooked up Fostex FE107e, Coral 103a holey back, low end ...

A few pictures,

http://img56.imageshack.us/img56/181/p10100026uj.jpg
http://img77.imageshack.us/img77/9159/p10100048jc.jpg
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/4368/p10100087rj.jpg
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/5366/p10100095xu.jpg
http://img174.imageshack.us/img174/1230/p10100110pi.jpg

Sound : need to be within the axes, or you lost the high frequencies. But, the listening is very funny, rapid, good basses. The voice is very clear, (Lou Reed, Diana Krall... are just beside you....
It is really a good surprise for me to listen these loudspeakers. Of course, the power is limited, of course they need a sub woofer for home cinema, of course you must not like to listen orga (sorry for my bad english), and the sound is very very diriged. You move a little and the high frequencies shut down.... But for a good sitting listening, surprisingly
_________________

Dmason · « **Reply #512 on:** 28 Apr 2006, 02:25 am »

I have two B200 on OB right now, the lower one mounted very low, LP ~300Hz, and the upper one, HP 60Hz right now. These things as they are filtered will take about anything you care to throw into them. The amount of floor lift is VERY IMPRESSIVE. Low enough you could easily roll in a little sub and live happily ever after. 6 watts ClariT top, 250 watts Hafler bottom. Very, very sweet indeed.

Recipe for Complete LiteStar OB Design to Follow. Interested parties can PM me.

Also noticed the DarkStar thread hit 40,000 hits very recently. Dr Linkwitz referred to it as The Best Street Level de facto primer on Open Baffle he had seen on the Net. Congrats to Vinnie for having The Jumbo Thread on his circle.

Vanne d'Air -- extremely well done job on the Solo's.

JiffyBoob · « **Reply #513 on:** 6 May 2006, 01:37 am »

I thought I would mention that I am borrowing Dr Mason's Double DarkStar Lite version for a few days, weeks, months, and must say this is an exceptional stand alone rig for open baffle. The amount of bass squeezed out of the lower driver just up off the floor, is impressive, to say the least. The other thing that stands out is the sonic that the B200 imparts, owners will know what I am shooting at here, is multiplied by having another on the same baffle. Really nice effect. He has wired it up so that I can run it off one amp, my Art Audio PX-25, which really wakes them up.

Anyone thinking about getting fantastic OB results fast, the first time should order a couple pairs of these things and do it this way. I could say this is the finest sounding loudspeaker system for $500 plus parts, on the planet. Highly recommended. A+++

JDUBS · « **Reply #514 on:** 6 May 2006, 03:58 am »

JiffyBoob

Any pics? Would love to see what these speakers look like!

Glad to hear they're working out so well for you!

-Jim

opnly bafld · « **Reply #515 on:** 8 May 2006, 05:23 pm »

Dmason,

I ordered another pair of B200s today

, any details regarding the 1.5 way OBs.

Thanks,
Lin

JiffyBoob · « **Reply #516 on:** 8 May 2006, 06:14 pm »

openly baffled

I know that Dr D is away for abit, so I will attempt to shed abit of light on the subject... I also know that the low mounted B200 is very close to the floor which is key, and operates below 280Hz and is said to roll off mechanically around that frequency anyway. I know the bass from this implementation is for real. I know the upper driver is operating from +150Hz or so. I dont think this was critical, as I recall. I know what he has in mind requires two amplifiers, and this set is wired up crossover style for one amp, for my personal dining and dancing pleasure.

MAN what a great sound. So inexpensive, sooo expansive, AND is n'sync with as good o' source and amp'age as you can throw at it. This little combo absolutely nails it, and a soundstage like you haven't heard but sounds like what the Star Gate looks like. A Dark Star Gate.

Bemopti123 · « **Reply #517 on:** 8 May 2006, 09:10 pm »

Asides from all the discussion, we need some more pictures of the Dark Stars as Doc has them. The other ones that I have seen from other members, do not get near at satisfying my itch of what it might look and therefore, soundlike.

-Richard- · « **Reply #518 on:** 8 May 2006, 09:44 pm »

Hi Bemopti123,

Obviously only Dmason can answer your questions with precision.

I am awaiting Jim McCarthy's help to build a simple OB with 2 B200 drivers.

Here are the dimensions I am working with. Front baffle: 16 inch width, 41.5 inch height.
Both B200's centered. Top B200 7 inches from top. Bottom B200 3 inches
from bottom. Side wings at 90 degree angles. 8 inches on top
12 inches on bottom for a tilt-back of 4 inches or approximately 4.5 degrees.
The back of the wings are straight. The front of the wings taper allowing the
front baffle to tilt back.

Here is what you can expect from the sound of one B200. Which I am presently
listening to: Electrostatic transparency, Horn-like "open" spatiality, stunning
resolution of detail and textures, organic cohesiveness...life-like presentation
that penetrates the room as only a di-pole can...meaning that the sound avoids
the boxy directionality and/or beaming that is the bane of box speakers generally...

Hope this helps...if your interest is peaked try building a pair...you will find your
time well spent and what you hear will help you to increase your understanding
or what is possible in audio...on the cheap...yes...there is tremendous pleasure here!!!!

Warm regards -Richard-

opnly bafld · « **Reply #519 on:** 8 May 2006, 10:01 pm »

Thanks JiffyBoob,
I moved my OBs to a spare bedroom several weeks ago and they lost the special sound they had in the living room.
They were probably too close to the wall behind them and I was sitting too close because of being in a smaller room.
I moved them back to the living room and lastnight I was listening to a drum solo, (Improvsation-Ron Tutt-Sheffield Lab) it was easily the closest I have ever heard to sounding like his kit was in the room.
The baffles are @ 6 ft. out from the wall and I am sitting about 7 or 8 ft. away.
They are 49"h x 20"w and I have 2- 15" Hawthorne Audio Bass Augies in open back boxes 18"h x 18"w x 12"d x-over @ 150hz.
I would like to use the Augies as subs only, and hope to be able to accomplish this thru the use of 2 B200s as per Dmason's latest offering.

The really cool thing about these experiments is the price.
When I first got the 15" drivers I mounted them in the same baffle as the B200s, but they were shaking it too much.
So off to Lowes I goes and $21.50 later and a jig cut -new baffles.

When I get everthing figured out to my satisfaction I wil finish them to look nice

Thanks again,
Opnly Bafld