Gravity Well Of A DarkStar

mcgsxr · « **Reply #440 on:** 9 Jul 2005, 06:24 pm »

A second musical recommendation for some fun with these speakers - Madonna, Music cd, Track 2 - when the synth comes in, it sounds like it is around my head, slightly above and behind, and then carries forward to the soundstage.

Ridiculous!

I have come to the conclusion that I have never heard anything like these speakers. I have yet to conclude if that means they are ultimately the right thing for me, but near term they are fun, affordable, and interesting to experiment with.

I will reserve final judgement until I can sort out the bass, either in this or the next room, and am waiting to see if they really flesh out as they break in more and more also.

How many folks out there now with these, or these on order?

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #441 on:** 9 Jul 2005, 07:25 pm »

Has anyone with the behringer unit gotten the bass from the b200 to extend below 100hz with satisfactory results? Extension down to 80hz or below would be even better for subwoofer integration.

RoadTripper · « **Reply #442 on:** 9 Jul 2005, 07:40 pm »

How about using the OB Visatons as surround sound (side) speakers in a home theater application. They won't need to provide much bass. From what I have been reading, while they might be overkill (too good) for such a task, they might make for an ideal surround sound.

powerbench · « **Reply #443 on:** 10 Jul 2005, 10:36 am »

My B200s have just arrived Ill be picking them up and some 3/4 in birch p/w.Ill split them in 2,rip 8 inches off each side making them 32inch wide with an 8 in wing secured with piano hinge,offset from centre the drivers and a 6x9 deflector to the rear top trailing edge for rear defeflection control.Im going to hook up something to secure the wings from vibrating but maintain their adjustability.

Im not sure whether to angle them back or not.Or I may just have leave the wing edges tapered for leaning them backwards.Maybe a rear kickstand leg(s) that adjusts also??

OR should I just start with flat panels and go from there??Identifying each sonic change as I go??

What does everyone think??

JLM · « **Reply #444 on:** 10 Jul 2005, 11:00 am »

PW,

Having heard 3 OBs the game you'll be playing is more than a change from American football to Canadian, more like moving to rugby.

In other words, the differences between the various versions you described are very minor compared to the whole open baffle concept to start with.

Can anyone specify how low their B200/OBs go in room without EQ? The 80 - 100 Hz mentioned above isn't very "full range" in my book and would seem to need more help to reach 30 Hz flat in room (like my speakers now can do) than EQ could provide alone. Having to use a powered sub and EQ is not what I had in mind.

powerbench · « **Reply #445 on:** 10 Jul 2005, 11:17 am »

Maybe i missed the point should the OB be flat or angled>>??

mcgsxr · « **Reply #446 on:** 10 Jul 2005, 04:18 pm »

JLM - the FS of the b200 is 40Hz, so it is unlikely that it will hit 30Hz very well, under any conditions on an OB, as far as I know.

I feel like I may be the source of the concern around the bass issue, and I want to make sure that it is understood that 2 things stand against great bass from this unit in my room.

1 - the room is a bass monster, and has severe nulls at the listening spot - when I stand, or walk around the room, there is plenty of bass, nearly enough for me. Since I am moving in a month, I am not interested in trying to sort out why, or how, this null appears, nor how to fix it. If the next room exhibits the same difficulties (it is an unfinished basement of about 25x30x8) then I will report on it, and start trying to fix it.

2 - I really like bass. There, I said it. That is to say, that I like it more than it naturally comes from ANY speaker that I have heard, in any of my rooms. I have always augmented with subs, so that I can have my childish bass when I want it, and good sound all the time. It is my approach.

So, if the previous two points are taken in consideration, it is entirely possible that some folks will have better rooms, and a more balanced approach to how much bass there should be, and thus will be really happy with the raw b200.

I will always need subs, and have several plans in the hopper - it will come down to what tools I will have access to, and which direction seems best, at the time construction becomes a possibility (likely Sept/Oct).

I may have the chance to try the system in a bedroom in my new place, around 10x12x8, and see how that sounds for a couple of hours, before I have to move it down to the basement for permanent install. That might shed some light on how they run, in a smaller space.

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #447 on:** 10 Jul 2005, 09:51 pm »

That graph shows 15db down from 500hz and down, which is surely not the end result, for mcgsxr couldn't possibly be happy with that. Perhaps someone with a tone generator or cd with tones can do a little experiment for us yet unenlightened.

Dmason · « **Reply #448 on:** 11 Jul 2005, 03:26 am »

With EQ, it is impressive just how far down you can push LF limit, bending the rule, even more impressive is the way the B200 withstands this manipulation without much modulation of the upper register. Very impressive indeed. I recommend the Behringer as an extremely effective tool, best in digital.

John's opinion stands as fact. Dipole bass is WHERE IT'S AT, but, with EQ driving the roll off down, do not worry, other, less refined bass augmentations will in fact work. A good, fast, TIGHT sub will work more than just okay... I am working on a small MLTL for bass, because the GM JX Jumbos are just too big to be acceptable for anywhere outside the garage. A smaller line can be doubled and run along the floor line horizontally, on the back wall to great effect. I have used my Axiom M40Ti for bass only duty, and they work surprisingly well. their trapezoidal shape has them firing upward abit... Still, the 2X12 dipole in P/P configuration rules supremely, and is worth the effort to build. The full set up at "JiffyBoob"s place really sound good.

JLM · « **Reply #449 on:** 11 Jul 2005, 11:00 am »

PW,

I sketched up an open baffle for the B200 that is 18 inches wide with angled wings of different lengths that includes top and bottom pieces to make a shallow box. Shallow is the key to avoid it sounding like a box. As this sketch has the driver mounted 24 inches above the floor, I tilted the baffle back (that would also help stability). The amount of tilt allows for the driver to be aimed directly at my nearfield listening position (about a 1:6 slope). The wings average 6 and 8 inches wide and are made of 2x12 material. The 2x12s are overkill, but cheap and allow for rounding of edges and a rabbit on the back for possible dampening and grille materials. With its 38 inch overall height the effective edge distances vary up from 14 to 18 inches. Half a sheet of plywood, two 2x12x8 footers, sanding/finishing, and possible dampening material and you're done for under $300 with drivers. This makes for a halfway good looking speaker.

John in Costa Rico,

So if my speakers are 1.7 meters from the back wall, Fequal = 0.17 x 343/3.4 = 17 Hz? (should I be using the back and forth travel distance?) What does, "Compared to a sealed box" mean in terms of bass response in my room? How big of a sealed box?

I thought the nulls related to the baffle edge distance, not the additional rear wave reflected distance? In my example above this "D" would be about 0.5 meters, and provide boost at 343/0.5x2 = 343 Hz and a null at 343/0.5 = 686 Hz? Using the additional rear wave reflected distance in my example, boost would be at 343/3.4x4 = 50 Hz and a null would be at 343/3.4 = 100 Hz?

Guess I'm more confused now.

andrewbee · « **Reply #450 on:** 11 Jul 2005, 07:24 pm »

For an open baffle try this.
http://members.myactv.net/~je2a3/JELOBplan-1.jpg
Then build another but this time but do not centre the driver. Instead, from the lower left corner as reference centre the driver 22.6" across and 14.3"up. IOW from left to right 22.6" across and then from the bottom 14.3" up.
Tell me which one you prefer

Andrew

mcgsxr · « **Reply #451 on:** 11 Jul 2005, 07:35 pm »

I have seen that very design, and am looking to build something related for my final version - I want to use a lower mounting (ie closer to the floor) to get better bass, and use mildly deeper wings, to reduce frontal area slightly.

Reread this - I mean a lower mounting than I use now at around 22 inches, not lower than the prescribed 14 or so inches.

Anyone heard these as is?

JLM · « **Reply #452 on:** 11 Jul 2005, 10:04 pm »

Yes, that's a "classic" OB design. A friend has roughly that set up. I've also read descriptions by others and both use foam damping behind and locate them within inches of rear corners for additional bass reinforcement.

John,

That's what I thought, and you're right it would translate into a very high roll off. I was hoping that 4 to 6 inch wide wings wouldn't hamper the sound much with an 18 inch wide baffle. Most discouraging as I wanted to keep it simple, without needing both a sub and EQ, especially 3 octaves up.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #453 on:** 14 Jul 2005, 03:00 pm »

For those interested in a fun little unit to pair with Visaton OB's...

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=20223.msg179025#179025

I figured I would post it over there, since it only peripherally relates to Visatons.

Great little unit, right out of the box, and I look forward how it breaks in.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #454 on:** 5 Aug 2005, 10:22 am »

Had some fun last night - my best friend came over for a short visit, to check on how packing for my move is coming along, and to see the OB Visatons.

We built him some 2 ways 2 years ago now, and together we have built 5 sets of speakers together over the years, including the KIT41 that I built earlier this year. The only time he had heard a single driver before, was using the CSS WR125S in the boxes I later modified to build out the KIT41. He liked the mids, but could not live with that sound overall - too bass and treble shy for him. He wrote off single drivers on that sound, and has ridden me for some time about my obsession with retaining that midrange clarity, and expanding on the other frequency extremes.

He sat down in the chair after a brief look at the folding mdf panels, and reviewing that the music would simply be coming from the Visatons, and the JVC EX A1. He could see that it was just the drivers, connected to that little executive unit, no sub, no Xover, nothing.

Fire up Bob Marley, hand over the remote.

"Huh, well you really shut me up didn't you"! He was really surprised and amazed that sound could come from something so simple, and be rewarding to listen to. He has long ridden me for my audio pursuits (he loves the 2 ways that we built for him, but uses a Yamaha receiver, and Sony 5 changer...) but had to admit that this was the best sound he has heard at my house. Period.

I can tell from the look on his face that at some point, he will ask me where to get a set of those drivers...

He will help me build up some subs, so that I can get the bottom end I am looking for.

Thought you guys might like to read about that one,

Smitty · « **Reply #455 on:** 7 Aug 2005, 08:21 pm »

Now that the dust has settled and I'm half blind from taking in all the great info offered so far, I am ready to proceed.

I am going with the No Box design, minus its crossover (of course). http://www.visaton.de/english/artikel/art_829_6_20.html
The hard part will be finding the woofers. Not available from Canada, and not listed on the Spectrum site. Perhaps Spectrum can order up two for me.

At apx. 48"H X 21"W the baffle may seem a bit narrow to some, but the specs look great. It will be bi-amped via an active crossover at 250 Hz. This has been one Hell of an interesting thread. Hopefully Louis at Omega will be making the baffle for me. [/url]

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #456 on:** 16 Aug 2005, 06:50 am »

Looking over the products list for the upcoming RMAF, I spotted this OB designed speaker.... http://www.bastanis.com/diy/prometheus+mkii_en.htm . Its new to me, anyone heard these ? Looks interesting...

Russell Dawkins · « **Reply #457 on:** 16 Aug 2005, 07:02 am »

I was looking into the Bastanis a couple of months ago, but got sidetracked by the Druids then the Visaton NoBoxes and then by the SP Tech Timepieces. Here are a couple more links:
http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/kit-loudspeaker/kit-loudspeaker.htm
diy forum:
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/bastanis/bbs.html
U.S. prices:
http://www.audioasylum.com/forums/bastanis/messages/189.html

Russell

Dmason · « **Reply #458 on:** 16 Aug 2005, 01:11 pm »

I listened to the Bastanis Prometheus at last year's RMAF, and it pretty much set the tone for the weekend. Having already been hooked on wide band drivers, there were a select few speakers at the show which really did it for me.... The Prometheus were outstanding, and that is exactly what put me on the open baffle bandwagon, culminating in my building five pairs of DarkStars over the summer, and fine tuning that particular approach. The Prometheus is not all that different, except I vastly prefered the sonic signature of the Visaton B200, which needs no tweeter, to the custom, cone-treated Eminence 12.

Gary of these Circles owns and loves his Prometheus, AND he powers them with .......a Clari-T amp, of all things.

lonewolfny42 · « **Reply #459 on:** 16 Aug 2005, 01:21 pm »

Quote from: Dmason

I listened to the Bastanis Prometheus at last year's RMAF, and it pretty much set the tone for the weekend.