Gravity Well Of A DarkStar

-Richard- · « **Reply #420 on:** 28 Jun 2005, 01:57 am »

Hi Ed,

thanks so much for your help...I deeply appreciate it.

'Warm regards -Richard-

ebag4 · « **Reply #421 on:** 1 Jul 2005, 04:40 pm »

Guys:
Not certain what has happened to this thread, it seems to have died suddenly, but if anyone is still interested here you go.

I received this email from Wolfgang @ Spectrum:

Dear Ed ,
I have a look to shipping rates this week, allways expensive and laborious,
the best way is in sending parcel with max weight of 20 kg
parcel max 10 kg = max 3 pieces B200 = shipping price 45 EUR insured till
400 Euro
parcel max 20 kg = max 7 pieces B200 = shipping price 70 EUR insured till
800 Euro
price for 10 pieces B200 and more = 113 Euro each
price for 25 pieces B200 and more = 108 Euro each
best regards
Wolfgang Vollstädt
SpectrumAudio

Running the numbers in USD this is what I came up with:

For 28 drivers (14 pair, divisible by 7 for best shipping and in excess of 25 units for best pricing)

(All $ amount rounded to nearest $)

28 drivers @ $129. Ea USD =   $3612.00
Shipped in lots of 7, 4 @ $84.=    $336.00
Total            $3948.00 or $141.00 ea./ $282.00 pair

Of course this only gets them to the states, we would also have to cover the shipping to our respective locations.

Thanks,
Ed

mcgsxr · « **Reply #422 on:** 1 Jul 2005, 09:24 pm »

Well, I am still here, and checking in on this thread daily, but I guess we are in a lull - US Holiday on Monday, Canadian Holiday today, and most of the folks interested in these have yet to receive their drivers...

That must be why there is little activity here.

I am researching bass augmentation options, and will post what I come up with.

-Richard- · « **Reply #423 on:** 1 Jul 2005, 09:57 pm »

Hi Mark,

I am hearing great bass now...each day Deb and I hear another level of
musical texture present itself...startling really...as the B200's work themselves
into a more relaxed physical disposition...

I think I might be hearing the limits of my tube SEP integrated amp...
for more sparkle on top or perhaps better bass fundamentals I will
have to use the tricked out ClariT ...I have not gone that root yet only
because of limited finances...

Glad you are looking into a bass driver to compliment the B200's...I am open
to using something like that once I can get passed the limitations of my SEP...
the speaker taps on the back are so small as to be Lilliputian...if I order the
tricked out ClariT from Vinnie I will take advantage of his option to put bass
out speaker posts on the back...just to be able to send a signal to the bass
driver...assuming that you or Dan or John strongly suggest that the woofer
driver have its own amplifier...

In about 4 or 5 weeks I am going to try John's suggestion of a fixed wing
60 degree swept back OB design...with a top (and perhaps a bottom) wood plate
for structural integrity and back wave sound control...

Sound is...ravishing...seductive...here and there in certain frequency bands I notice
that the birch wood baffle is adding something to the musical mix...or perhaps it is
just my B200 not quite being fully relaxed and dragging frequencies into each
other because of being a bit to ridged here and there...can't tell yet...but it doesn't
matter in the least...

Warm regards -Richard-

ooheadsoo · « **Reply #424 on:** 2 Jul 2005, 02:35 am »

That price doesn't sound too bad for a pair. I think I'm in for one pr.

JDUBS · « **Reply #425 on:** 2 Jul 2005, 03:07 am »

OK guys my B200's are finally on their way from Canada.

Now for the baffle. I'd really like to try one made of acrylic. I found a place here in Chicago (http://www.acrylicdesigninc.com/index1.htm) that could no doubt handle the task, including CNC'ing the driver hole.

I'm thinking of going the fixed wing baffle route (the company should be able to bend the wings). Any suggestions on baffle dimensions (front baffle height , width, and driver position, and wing width) given the acrylic material?

Also, what thickness of acrylic is most appropriate?

If prices are reasonable, maybe we could get a group buy going? I will do some investigating.

Thanks everyone! I'm really looking forward to these speakers!

-Jim

Dmason · « **Reply #426 on:** 2 Jul 2005, 03:36 am »

Ed

Smallpond is in for min. one pair. You could PM him.

All

Jiffyboob's DarkStar rig is ready to be delivered and set up tomorrow. 105 X 65cm 3/4 birch ply baffle veneered in stained Ribbon Mahogany, semi gloss finish with vertical round-overs, 2-2X12" dipole bass augmentation w/ 200 watt PE plate amp, Behringer DEQ2496. B200 powered by Art Audio PX-25 __

_

__ SE amp, Joule Electra LA100 pre amp, Arcam CD23FMJ as a source, a First Class front end for these things.

THIS, is going to be good! My first "product."

-Richard- · « **Reply #427 on:** 2 Jul 2005, 04:45 am »

Hi Dan,

Congratulations!!!!!!! You can now add speaker designer and "manufacturer" to
your rich and complex planetary life...Bravo!!!!!!

It is indeed nice to see all of your research, hard work, creative thinking and
critical listening over the past few months come together in this new
enterprise...

I am very happy for you...

Warm regards -Richard-

Dmason · « **Reply #428 on:** 2 Jul 2005, 05:05 am »

Thanks, Richard,

It actually is kinda fun, and has put me into a different frame of reference, as obliged to another to get this accomplished, a sort of "official" feeling. And fun! MK is pretty damn excited about the prospect of tomorrow's activities, and I am excited about hearing it all with those chocolate coated Art Audio watts.

The one single fact I can relate is that the B200 is just KILLER on these open baffles. Anyone reading and wondering, hop in on this coming order and just do it, I personally guarantee a transformative experience in sound and design simplicity.

-Richard- · « **Reply #429 on:** 2 Jul 2005, 07:34 am »

I would like to echo Dan's enthusiasm for the B200 in Open Baffles...

Actually I am learning to listen to my CD recordings differently...

I have never heard them sound the way they do now...the richness of the
presentation is truly startling...and unexpected...it turns everything we have
come to think of as "good" speaker design upside down...

Everything that is recorded well comes to life in a most seductive way...and
you can hear differences in recordings impossible to identify with other speakers...

On a Mozart recording that Deborah and I have heard countless times...
Deb turned to me tonight and said "...It sounds as if I am hearing it in the
exact time that is was written...the 1790's..." I listened to it to see if I could
hear what she was hearing...my God...all at once I did...I was transported into
another time zone...and I could hear things that were in the recording...spatial
cues...that the B200 drivers in OB configuration was "releasing" from the
microscopic holes in the plastic disk...and it was eerie...utterly strange...and
a little weird...some aspect of time was trapped in this recording and the B200's
allowed me to hear it...that is no longer HiFi...
that is magic and a new way of listening...

Warm regards -Richard-

ebag4 · « **Reply #430 on:** 3 Jul 2005, 03:20 pm »

Dmason:
I have been looking around for info on the Ciare CH250 as well as the B200. I see that you have had both and in an earlier post in this thread you mention that the B200 is in another league ( believe that was this thread). I have also noticed that you are running the Modded Teac and not the Clari-T with your B200s. I would appreciate if you could comment on the using the Clari-T with the Ciare CH250s and B200s. Obviously the B200s are not as efficient as the Ciares, but is the difference so great that a step up in power was called for?

Thanks,
Ed

Dmason · « **Reply #431 on:** 3 Jul 2005, 03:44 pm »

Ed

There is a current thread on www.diyaudio.com on using the Ciares in an open baffle. Also go to search, type in JASD, and find another highly informative thread on open baffle, and search "CH250" as well. I recommend reading these threads in their entirety to gain a good fundamental knowledge of this subject, especially the JASD thread.

The CH250 is a very good speaker driver for the money, alot of fun, looks nice, and is a tweaker's dream. The B200 is an outstanding speaker driver period; the best I have heard by quite a wide margin, and I wound up trying ALOT of them in the past two years.

I was using the Teac with the OB speakers in order to break it in, which will require ~500+ hours to get it to where it needs to go, bigger T amps take a LONG TIME to break in folks. Having compared, I greatly prefer the highs of the CLariT amp with the B200, and most owners would agree there is an almost surreal 3D thing going on in the highs, and an insane sparkle you only seem to hear with super high end SE tube designs, IMHO, which plays magically well into the hands of the overall open baffle sound. In fact, yesterday I had the opportunity to compare the ClariT amp with the $7,000 Art Audio PX-25 with the B200, and

I preferred the ClariT immediately: more driver control, higher rez, no noise, and I LOVE the AA amp's sound, being its former owner, I regard it as a pet. This was a real discovery.

There seems to be a great deal of difference in the highs between the Teac and the CLariT... Having said that, some more power brings more dynamics and overall grunt, but the Teac is by no means a "better" amp for the B200, as I have lifted the bass anyway, and the ClariT is more than up to the task, being abit of a "muscle amp" with high SPL drivers. The reason I bought the Teac was for other, more difficult drivers like my Jordan MLTLs with ribbon tweeters, 84db and Fostex F200A/45L box, 89db. Hope this helps.

ebag4 · « **Reply #432 on:** 3 Jul 2005, 04:17 pm »

Dmason:
Thanks, I appreciate your response and I have to say my interest in the Clari-T and B200 is peaked to the point that I am going to have to move on this soon. Now if I can get the bosses approval, I can see her response now

.

Also, thanks for the references, I will check them out.

Regards,
Ed

Bemopti123 · « **Reply #433 on:** 3 Jul 2005, 05:07 pm »

Doc, any pictures of these full range system you are delivering? There seems to be different versions of this system as there is a flat OB one with no subwoofer and the one you are going to deliver, with the low end independently powered.

Although I saw some pics of the OB that our Canadian friend made, I have hard time imagining what they should look like...but then, there all Darkstars are not the same, but different according to the minds of their creators. Let us know of some pics or plans for this system.

Dmason · « **Reply #434 on:** 3 Jul 2005, 05:36 pm »

No access to digicam, little inclination to buy one presently, no pix available; this could change.

The one constant in the equation is the B200 on an open baffle. Period. Bass augmentation is up to the beholder. We wanted to do the dipole bass and place them behind the baffles, out of sight. Very little new here, dipole cabinets are pretty standard "H" baffle P/P configuration, not at all large, with well known 12 inch pro audio drivers. The only correction I should make is that the final baffles on this system were 24 inches wide, allowing four baffles, or two sets, from one plywood blank as opposed to two horns from six blanks, @ $50 ea. Everything else other than the Visatons can be had from Parts Express.

Once again, www.linkwitzlab.com www.diyaudio.com are the two universities of open baffle exploration.

This set up flat out rocks. It can play anything well, and at the speed of light. Speaking of astrophysics, Holst' "Venus" elicited an almost 3 dimensional presentation last night, prompting the word, "exquisite," from one, while vintage ZZ Top could crank with the best of them. Trad jazz piano trio sounded "live," and modern fusion, prog rock, and ambient/electronic orchestra ruled supreme to my ears. Dipole bass is where it's at, while MLTL using 8" bass drivers clocks at a very Adult second place.

JiffyBoob · « **Reply #435 on:** 4 Jul 2005, 05:35 pm »

Happy 4th of July, and Happy Canada Day to our neighbors to the North!

As I had a few minutes I thought I would catch up on this fascinating thread and add a thoughts about the new DarkStar speakers in MY living room right now!!!!!

First, I can state with ease that I have never had better sound in my place than now, with the almost full range set up Dmason has conceived, designed, built, delivered, set up, calibrated, and demonstrated for me. We have been treated to some really extraordinary music in the last couple days, and I love the sound with my tube amp, the two get along well. The Reali-T integrated amp with the DAC in the box sounded at least as amazing, true synergy there, and it sounded ALOT like good vinyl to my ears.

I wanted to use this thread to thank Dmason for his efforts on behalf of "real music,' as he calls it, and in the sharing of some of these discoveries, and also to acknowledge his professionalism in his take on the whole thing with respect to making it happen for me; I got the distinct impression that his goal was to make all this work right the first time, in the new room, and it felt like he was setting up a sound system for a professionally done performance gig. (which pretty much turned out to be the case,

) I saw some real focussing on the sound and all this tweaking going on, and an outside observer would have thought that this is what he did for a living. He's evidently into this new stuff.

Once we got the system EQ'd and the channels straightened out by ear, things really sounded as one. The room was not to be calibrated, as we didnt have a microphone to test with, so I cannot imagine how holistic the final result will be with the acoustic mojo applied to all this.

Suffice it to say that I am reaaaallly happy with the way these things sound, and it is only going to get better. So far, sooooo good.

mcgsxr · « **Reply #436 on:** 8 Jul 2005, 06:08 pm »

Jiffyboob - Glad that Dmason was able to sort you out - sounds like you are happy already, and I can only imagine that the tuning with the Behringer will really dial it in for you - I look forward to hearing more about how that goes for you.

I had the opportunity to sit down last night for around 2 hours for listening. Ahhh, it really does the trick, this setup (with eyes closed of course...

) and I am getting more pleased with the lower registers.

At one point my 18 month old daughter Easton was in the room, and when the music started, she stopped in her tracks, and turned left 90' from the setup and stared up - I can only assume that she too, was hearing sounds from way outside the plane of the speakers...

At another moment (this one MUCH harder to take...) she strolled up to my right panel, and stuck her fist into the middle of the Visaton, pushing it ALL the way back in its' travel. Gulp. Nothing. Not even a burp. (No No, from the driver, not ME!) She withdrew her hand, laughed and toddled away. The music played on, unphased by this GROSS mishandling.

Fear not fellow explorers, these are a tough built piece of business.

My best friend's 2 ways bear the dented tweeters of his two little ones, and sound worse for it.

Kid friendly, and dad pleasing, these drivers!

powerbench · « **Reply #437 on:** 8 Jul 2005, 06:15 pm »

Glad both you and the B200 survived the ordeal....whew I might of crapped my pants.

Is the sound growing on you?Vastly different or an acceptable change??

JiffyBoob · « **Reply #438 on:** 8 Jul 2005, 06:38 pm »

mxgsr

Glad to know that an added benefit of the manila cone is its inherent toughness. If your kid clocked it dead on and nothing, I guess it has few real enemies. Except really drunken adults I guess.

powerbench

Not a little different; wholly and completely different. Remember, now the room is the speaker enclosure. I remember the Dmason "sonic planetarium" analogy. Ever been to a planetarium? Sound comes from "everywhere," yet source from one point, [two here] Certain cues on the recording to certain things! like spacial cues, where from, who knows, but really very interesting, like adding an intellectual curiosity to the proceedings. Sound that encourages feeding one's head to enhance. The brain really likes the psychoacoustic phenomena in play here. I now have music playing ALL the time around here.

One other thing, I have the Red Wine Reali-T which I assume has the Clari-T amp inside. I can say that the amp with the DAC Vinnie has come up with is insanely good with this set up. Smooth as glass, no noise, like a really well tuned in vinyl rig this is. The DarkStar System is just amazing with this little black box telling it what to do. A+++

powerbench · « **Reply #439 on:** 8 Jul 2005, 06:46 pm »

What are the dimensions /configurations of your cabinets??Thanks in advance....