[ooheadsoo]

This is exciting indeed, to have so many trying their own b200 implementations.  I would love to join forces but alas, a minor car accident last wednesday has my funds all tied up for the forseeable future.  How can such a minor collision cost $2400?  The auto industry sure does have their income flow in tip top shape.  $2400 is definitely more money than my car is worth, so this'll be real interestin'.

[barfind]

Hey Dan, no worries...everything is going according to plan ...mdf already marked for cuts for mltl, keeping both 12's, for other possibilities...might replace Marchand kit with pre built xo, I like seperate amp but would replace 555 with tripath eventually. Have other equipment up for sale to cover B200's, and Teac mod. Finances ok just a tightwad   !
Wind in the sails !
I'll pm the plan to you tomorrow.
Don

Great another convert to the good ship B200. Don from experience, I know you will be amazed with this driver. Hey can I have a look at those plans too?

Nigel

[barfind]

This is exciting indeed, to have so many trying their own b200 implementations.  I would love to join forces but alas, a minor car accident last wednesday has my funds all tied up for the forseeable future.  How can such a minor collision cost $2400?  The auto industry sure does have their income flow in tip top shape.  $2400 is definitely more money than my car is worth, so this'll be real interestin'.

Hey isn't public transport ok in LA anyway  I mean to say, lets get thing in order here.

Nigel

[ooheadsoo]

I love public transportation!  Only 3-5 hours by bus for me to get to school!  Each way!  Oh, that's with the express bus during rush hours only.  I suppose it'd be roughly the same when there's no traffic and I have to take local all the way from one end to the other

Well, as long as nothing crazy happens like an embargo on Canada or Germany, I suppose I can get the b200 any time...just later rather than sooner *sigh*

[Dmason]

Ooheadsoo

If it allows you any vicarious pleasure to know that the DarkStars sound EVEN better as keyboard monitors. They can easily sink 40-50 watts and I have pounded them with keyboards, no limiters, no nuthin' and breaking them in HARD, just made them smoother, more organic. Barfind will also comment that there is an insane "holistic" aspect to the sound, analytical, yet organic at the same time. I never heard 24 bit samples sound as good as they do thru these things.

I honestly think Visaton had open baffles in mind for these, seeing the rumblings of newfound interest in almost forgotten load, by DIY'ers worldwide, and the bullseye perfect Q=.7 was not accident, nor a Q for a box type load, other than a VERY large box, (Vas=107L)    ergo, open baffle. The first designated truly modern open baffle driver, still almost unknown in North America. The BMW Z3 of wide range drivers.

One other thing: I came home tonight to find my first customer, the good Doctor "Jiffyboob" asleep on my floor, lulled into an altered state apparently. Tangerine Dream on the CDP. The enhanced ambience of the open baffle method combined with enhanced ambient synth, apparently enhanced the cerebral enhancement of the listener.

[ooheadsoo]

It sounds like the drivers are keepers no matter if my hare brained corner mount works or not.  *sigh*  Must resist! (for now.)

[barfind]

Yes you are right about the B200. I think it's the great sleeper of the world. So much so I am going to buy a few pairs, because I believe that as soon as they catch on the price will skyrocket.

Nigel

[mcgsxr]

I will struggle to convey exactly what I mean in the coming lines, but I hope that you will work with me, and in the end we will have a better sense of what is going on over here.  I do not have perfect pitch, but I played violin for 10 years earlier in life (sat as primary second violinist) and have dabbled with trombone (5 years), guitar, piano, bass etc – all I am getting at, is I have heard a lot of live music, and from the middle of much of it, so I am intimately familiar with some of the experiential subtleties of instruments, and playing them.

OK, here goes.  I have been playing these as hard as I can (not often that loud, I have to admit, with a youngster around, and a wife sensitive to music blasting…) for the last couple of weeks.  They are starting to change, and last night I had the chance to relax, sit down, and spin music for 3-4 hours.

The music included Blue Rodeo, Eric Clapton, Miles Davis, Kruder and Dorfmeister, Mazzy Star, Beastie Boys, Cake, Timo Mas, Purple Penguin, Ben Harper, Deodata (if you like funky jazz/fusion/ambient you MUST hear his remix of Thus Sprach Zarathustra!), and Steve Verity – Timestar.  This last one is compulsory listening on b200’s in an open baffle – I don’t care if you don’t like ambient/spacemusic/classical – you really need to hear this, so that you can truly understand what these speakers can do… http://www.windandwire.com/november/timestar.htm

I ran the Visatons in their 36x48 OB, in the upright position, driven by the JVC FS-X1 – this little amp/tuner/cd player uses the same Hybrid Feedback found in the much vaunted JVC receivers.  It is rated at 2x30wpc into 4 ohms.  I have an 18 ohm resistor in parallel on the binding posts, so by my calculations, we are at around 4.7 ohms seen by the amp.

I am using the JVC because for me, in this room, the bass needs a big boost, and I can deal with the reversal in top end resolution compared to my main rig, for the supreme increase in system simplicity, and the loudness button.

To jump right into it, my system has never sounded better, Dmason is correct in sharing that direct quote from me, but it is not perfect either.  

The not perfect first – the resolution in the top registers of the stock JVC system leaves some to be desired – I would call it mass market treble, and for anyone who has heard really good smooth but clear treble (as I have, with my Bolder Teac) you will know what I mean.  Cymbols are a little tizzy, and there is less clarity than I am used to.  The lowest bass is not there, and I bring that up because I am an absolute bass nut – I like more bass than there should be – there, I said it!  I know that the top end is not the fault of the b200’s, and I do not expect to load a room with a 25Hz note with the open baffles (even down the road with a Behringer) but other than that, I am out of reasons to not gush.

So, let me gush a little.  I have heard of folks proclaiming broad stereo sound, or enveloping sound.  Those of you who have heard this are already smiling, those of you who never had, are looking like I used to… Last night, during that Timestar cd, I heard sound from around me.  Period.  Not special cues from beside or behind me, but a complete, accurate, involving soundstage both in front, and directly BEHIND me.  Laugh, snort, deride, do what you will.  I heard it.  I heard sound from all around on any cd that has an ambient taste.  Well recorded cd’s sound like that – good music, well laid out in front of you.  Any music (ie the Mazzy, the K&D, the Beasties in some cases, the Purple Penguin, the Timo Mas, the Deodata) created a 360 degree soundstage that leaves me staggered to explain it.

The next thing that these silly walls of mdf seem to be able to do is communicate ultimate musicality.  I will try to explain this.  In other reviews of gear here on AC, I have described how an amp has had the ability to paint more clearly each individual instrument, while at the same time allowing the music to blend together.  Know what I mean?  Good, now imagine not only hearing a cohesive soundstage full of individual instruments clearly presented, but each instrument is vying for your attention – I wanted to take the time to relisten to pieces, so that I could just follow the bass once, then the guitar, then the drums etc – you can hear it all, but it is all so well musically presented, that you want to be drawn in by each part.

Next, for all you high efficiency speaker owners, you will already know this one - they can communicate seemingly 100% at ANY volume setting - every other speaker I have ever owned has had sweet spot in terms of volume, under or over which it was not as good.  Not here - need to listen quietly, no issue, but expect to still hear all the music, and detail.  NEED to blast it?  Sure, go ahead, but STILL expect to hear a coherent presentation...

Still more - I find that I like the baffles mostly upright - I know that lots of folks are playing with lots of lean, but I only liked that when using them in the lowboy presentation - upright, I like the baffles toed in to cross slightly ahead of me, and aimed at a spot around 2-3 feet above my head.  It is a real "race what you brung" attitude on my part, but I like the full presentation this way.

Sorry, still more!  Another thing - lots of folks are looking at the response curve of the raw driver, and wondering how it can sound good?  I have posted before about the ability to throw a centered image regardless of where I am in the room - the thing that varies, as I move from side to side, to center - the realism.  When outside the sweet spot, the sound is still good, and centered, but when in the sweet spot, it is so REAL.

Lastly, the thing that gets me most is what Dmason refers to as Real Music.  Now, I won’t speak for him, but I think what he means is that you can hear the music, on all your cd’s.  That is the case for me.  A number of times last night, I said out loud, to me I guess…, I have never heard the music on this cd before.  I have listened to it, but I have never heard it – ala White Men Can’t Jump – “you can’t hear Jimmy”.  This setup promotes hearing your music.  That I like.

If this is how good these sound after 2 weeks of run in, on simple baffles, with a loudness button on a friggin ghetto blaster – imagine how good they will sound with a full rack setup of gear?  Or in my case, I imagine how good they might sound with a modded Sharp unit from Vinnie – there is one in the mail from him, making its way up to me as we speak.

Perfect?  Not yet.  Truly amazing? Absolutely.  Worth buying and playing with?  Only if you want to discover new things, and shock yourself…

One parting shot - these speakers will endure childish misuse of the bass and volume pots... you can do really silly things to the settings, and CRANK it, and they refuse to falter - fun!

[Vinnie R.]

I will struggle to convey exactly what I mean in the coming lines, but I hope that you will work with me, and in the end we will have a better sense of what is going on over here.  .

Hi Mark,

Nice post...thanks for sharing your B200 experiences so far!

I've been reading this Darkstar thread since DMason started it, and now, I'm contacting a local plastics company to get a price quote for two clear Acrylic or Lexan baffles with the hole cut for the B200s.  

So...when is Solen getting B200s in stock?  

Can't wait!

[nodiak]

...when is Solen getting B200's in stock?

uh, oh   , not in stock ?  

the bread lines are forming as we speak...

Don - getting in line

[Dmason]

Mark

Very good apprisal of the basement happenings. Now you know from whence cometh the term, "sonic planetarium."

Jiffyboob was describing a very similar experience last night, listening to remastered Tangerine Dream, recorded live in Olympic Stadium, Munich, in the darkness, alone, with no distractions, (or system noise.) He pointed out the sound was coming from "everywhere," including cues that seemed to be coming from 270' relative to the back wall, and he said, ' there, coming from down the hallway,'  pointing in the direction of --down the hall.   Your comment on this phenomenon occuring with recordings with heavy ambient cues is pretty accurate.

I look forward to hearing about how the modified Sharp unit does. They sound quite abit gutsier with the Teac in place, and I think the Teac, rated at 6 Ohms really likes the 6 Ohm impedance of the B200, through much of its bandwidth. Just noticed that exquisite little coincidence yesterday.

[LymphNode]

From a German website, 65cm x 105cm OB, driver centered 30 cm from top:

http://img64.exs.cx/img64/360/DSC00144.jpg

http://img22.exs.cx/img22/6389/DSC146.jpg

[ooheadsoo]

Is there any good reading material out there about how the backwave actually helps the sound?  I'm really wondering what will happen if my corner mount more or less stuffs the backwave or at least muffles it considerably, as opposed to more mundane corner situations where the backwave is still free to bounce around the room.

The backwave isn't what's making the dipole sound good, is it?  I can't see how it should.  Omnis have plenty of "back" wave :p

[LymphNode]

b200 in sealed enclosure using active crossover:

http://www.visaton.de/vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8650

(paste link into babel fish)

[Dmason]

The SOLO 20 Design. If you note carefully, there is a hole in the back wall of the box; it is not a sealed alignment. Sealed is Eckbox @ >75L Fb=60Hz

Actually SOLO 20 uses a zobel over the terminals, it is shelved at around 90Hz, and uses a notch filter to address a serious impedance spike at around 1KHz, resulting from this aligmnent, if I recall. Sound surely stands under a dark ceramic overcast, with rotating Cupric cloud.   OB = Rainbows and Sonic pot of gold, requires no passive stuff; this is why I am convinced Visaton designed this driver for open baffle.

           Moral: forget about box alignments with this driver.

[LymphNode]

According to the Visaton website, the hole in the back of the cabinet is for the speaker terminal cup, not a port.

[LymphNode]

http://www.visaton.com/english/artikel/art_844_6_89_2.html

[Dmason]

Sealed it is then. Much better for satellites and sub. Wanna hear what that driver can do? Open baffle it. Get it?

[ooheadsoo]

If dipole is plausible, it certainly seems to be the way to go for this driver.  There are other lower q drivers out there more suited for sealed alignments, if that's what you're looking for.  No need to use the b200 in that case.

[Dmason]

Lymph Node

If it is sealed cabinets you want, and have $300 to blow on drivers, I cannot more highly recommend the Jordan JX92S, sealed with two small subs = KILLER KILLER KILLER. Absolutely nothing can touch it for crystal sound, once relieved of any bass duties, shelved, like the SOLO20 at 80-100Hz. That would be my No. 1 choice for that type of thing. To improve on that, it is the B200 on open baffle.

This thread is concentrating on open baffle alignment, and accompanying system development for the B200.