Speaker cable reversal of direction

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Fluty

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Speaker cable reversal of direction
« on: Yesterday at 10:52 am »
Because of different connectors at each end (spades / bananas) I want to reverse the direction of my speaker cables in order to connect a new pair of speakers. They're high quality (read: expensive) silver cables & its a pain to reverse them, but this would be easier than changing the terminations. Directionality seems to be controversial - does anyone here have any experience of this? I know I should listen for myself, but, as I implied, changing the direction is difficult (because of access - the 12 foot cables go under the floor). Thanks!

Solarflares

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Re: Speaker cable reversal of direction
« Reply #1 on: Yesterday at 11:27 am »
Assuming the cable doesn’t have arrows printed on it, just go for it.
You might need time for them to burn in again, just from physically moving them, but any perceived deficiencies in sound will most definitely pass, and they will perform just as before. Possibly even better.  With this in mind, hot-swapping direction to test is pointless.
I recently bought $2000 of very fancy used cables, and at no point was direction discussed. But all my cables here do take a few hours to bed-in again after simply being moved. Not surprising since both my speaker cables and interconnects are dozens (48) of individually double-jacketed silver-alloy runs on both hot and negative.
Just make sure you wire hot and negative to the same terminals as before, if the terminations aren’t colour-coded.

P/S - Removing the 12ft cables from under the floor, will at least give you the chance to inspect them fully for rodent bite-damage, and acidic waste-product staining. Not to mention the chance to flush out possible illegal immigrant infestation.
« Last Edit: Yesterday at 03:17 pm by Solarflares »

Letitroll98

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Re: Speaker cable reversal of direction
« Reply #2 on: Yesterday at 12:05 pm »
Can I be so impetuous to ask why they need to be reversed?  Most speakers have five way binding posts.  Then I thought because it's the GR Circle they might be Speakon at the speaker end, but that doesn't fit my brain either.  Curious minds want to know.

AllanS

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Re: Speaker cable reversal of direction
« Reply #3 on: Yesterday at 02:23 pm »
The only possibility I can conceive of is grain orientation related wire draw directionality.  If that’s a non issue then I imagine electron reorientation, if a thing of concern, is only a matter of hours of play time.
 I’ve inadvertently run cables backwards without hearing a difference but I’m among the least sensitive to such changes.

Letitroll98 my situation may be different but I recently had to get the amp end of my cables reterminated from locking 45 degree bananas to straight bananas because the binding posts of my amps were either stacked, leading to awkward orientation, or too close to the bottom of the chassis to clear the shelf.  The same problem exists with a second set of cables with spades.

Solarflares

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Re: Speaker cable reversal of direction
« Reply #4 on: Yesterday at 02:52 pm »
With pure Copper and 100M Silver alloys, any wire-drawing effect is certainly not measurable electrically in terms of directional orientation.
Cheaper examples of cable with more impurity might possibly show a tiny characteristic of a directional bias toward fidelity - ie:- measurable. But who cares? It just gives the paupers and easily-led forum-addict cretins an excuse to say the directional thing exists as a viable factor in what they believe is high-end audio. Then they come on other forums and argue with us financially unchallenged folks, who have sensibly spent enough to avoid, or even discuss such issues.
Lol
Speaker wires? Tell me about it!





« Last Edit: Yesterday at 04:52 pm by Solarflares »

Fluty

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Re: Speaker cable reversal of direction
« Reply #5 on: Yesterday at 08:43 pm »
Can I be so impetuous to ask why they need to be reversed?  Most speakers have five way binding posts.  Then I thought because it's the GR Circle they might be Speakon at the speaker end, but that doesn't fit my brain either.  Curious minds want to know.

The speaker binding posts are unusual, by Danish company Argento Audio. They won't accept my right angle WBT bananas because they have (what they call) a "protective sheath" which needs a straight banana plug in order to reach through the sheath & make contact. The cables are cryogenically treated and so I don't want to change the plugs! If I reverse the direction then the spades, which are presently at the amplifier end, will fit the speakers with no problem, and there's plenty of space around the amplifier end to accommodate both the bi-wire spades  + bananas. Its a big job to reverse the cable, but easier than changing the connectors. However, I don't want to compromise the sound!

AllanS

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Re: Speaker cable reversal of direction
« Reply #6 on: Today at 01:31 am »
Is it possible to swap amp and speaker positions to test, even if it’s in near field?

Solarflares

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Re: Speaker cable reversal of direction
« Reply #7 on: Today at 01:55 am »
Is it possible to swap amp and speaker positions to test, even if it’s in near field?
It would be quicker to phone the cable manufacturer, and ask them for the info I already know, and shared.

Bodhi

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Re: Speaker cable reversal of direction
« Reply #8 on: Today at 05:21 am »
The speaker binding posts are unusual, by Danish company Argento Audio. They won't accept my right angle WBT bananas because they have (what they call) a "protective sheath" which needs a straight banana plug in order to reach through the sheath & make contact. The cables are cryogenically treated and so I don't want to change the plugs! If I reverse the direction then the spades, which are presently at the amplifier end, will fit the speakers with no problem, and there's plenty of space around the amplifier end to accommodate both the bi-wire spades  + bananas. Its a big job to reverse the cable, but easier than changing the connectors. However, I don't want to compromise the sound!

Fyi VH Audio sell most popular high end connnectors, and offer cryo treatment as an option (see link - https://www.vhaudio.com/cryo.html). But I understand if you don't want to mess with the factory terminations. Re: reversing the cables, as other members noted - as long as the cables aren't directional there is no problem reversing them, and the cables should settle in within a couple of days without getting too techy. It's easy to tell if the cables are directional, as there are usually arrows pointing in the direction the signal is meant to go. But if in doubt, i'd check with the cable manufacturer.

Solarflares

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Re: Speaker cable reversal of direction
« Reply #9 on: Today at 05:35 am »
I’m not just ‘another’ member - I’m Solarflares!

If a copper/silver alloy speaker cable exhibits directional bias, then this would only confirm impurities present
So if you contact the company and ask if their $2000 4 metre cables are directional - it would be in their interests to say no.

Bodhi

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Re: Speaker cable reversal of direction
« Reply #10 on: Today at 05:42 am »
If a copper/silver alloy speaker cable exhibits directional bias, then this would only confirm impurities present
So if you contact the company and ask if their $2000 4 metre cables are directional - it would be in their interests to say no.

I'd rather not generalise. I'm happy to stick with my advice to the OP.

Letitroll98

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Re: Speaker cable reversal of direction
« Reply #11 on: Today at 12:36 pm »
The speaker binding posts are unusual, by Danish company Argento Audio. They won't accept my right angle WBT bananas because they have (what they call) a "protective sheath" which needs a straight banana plug in order to reach through the sheath & make contact. The cables are cryogenically treated and so I don't want to change the plugs! If I reverse the direction then the spades, which are presently at the amplifier end, will fit the speakers with no problem, and there's plenty of space around the amplifier end to accommodate both the bi-wire spades  + bananas. Its a big job to reverse the cable, but easier than changing the connectors. However, I don't want to compromise the sound!

Thanks, that makes perfect sense.  With the added description I would never try reterminating the cables at home.  Typically these cables are terminated using very high pressure "cold welding" techniques that you can't reproduce unless you have a well equipped home workshop.  I've never heard much difference in direction in any cables, maybe a little with some rca cables that had the shield disconnected on one end, but nothing I'd hang my hat on.  But I always follow the arrows on the jacket because why not.  However in your case the negative consequences of reterminating far outweighs the pain of fishing the cables under the floor.  The only other option might be some kind of adaptor?  No idea about where you'd find something suitable, but worth some Google search.  Best of luck.

Solarflares

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Re: Speaker cable reversal of direction
« Reply #12 on: Today at 12:55 pm »
  The only other option might be some kind of adaptor?  No idea about where you'd find something suitable, but worth some Google search.  Best of luck.
Since most aftermarket adaptors are products of China, with their dubious Copper-purity and lo-grade Silver-plating - you’d soon be posting an “Are My Adaptors Directional” thread.   Lol

MarvinTheMartian

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Re: Speaker cable reversal of direction
« Reply #13 on: Today at 02:06 pm »
First I would contact the endpoints . both Argento Audio and Amphion , tell them your predicament, and see if they have a simple solution.
One white lie required to simplify and elevate your issue , tell them you have WBT bananas at both ends : ) 

Can the banana  mode 'protective cup'  be made to work with angled WBT banana  connectors?
-  simply omit protective cup and still connect correctly? Abet not 100% safely in Europe. 
-  Argento may already have a WBT compatible  substitute  cup
-  worst case scenario ask for instructions / permission and manually modify the existing cup with appropriate tools.

Shawn