[I.Greyhound Fan]

Hi, I am downsizing and selling my Pass amp and BAT preamp.  I recently bought a Marantz KI Ruby.  I loved the tone and texture but it lacked the detail I was use to.  I sold it and bought a Marantz PM-10 that I am also returning.  Yesterday, I bought a used Krell K-300i Integrated from TMR but later found out that Krell is in Limbo.  The wife of D'agostino who owned the company died late last year.  They have been closed ever since.  There is a court case going on between one of the sons and the ceo for control of the company.  It is too bad because this amp is supposed to be warm sounding (a departure from the typical Krell house sound).  It is also supposed to be very detailed and dynamic with great bass, transparency and air.  The Stereophile review was superb.    Too bad because this amp is what I was looking for.  I am so disappointed. 

Because of this, I canceled the order.  If it breaks, parts are not available.  So today, I bought a Mark Levinson ML5805 integrated, B-stock for a great price.  I should get it the middle of next week.  I will post a review then.

I really wanted a nice tube amp but the good high powered tube integrateds are outrageously expensive.   I was hoping to buy a Gen 2 Ayon Triton.  Gen 1 is affordable, but gens 2 and 3 are way better.  Maybe in 5 years.

[mr_bill]

Thank you for the update Larry - good info to know and we look forward to your ML 5805 review and what you think.  That's a nice piece and you've had some great equipment and your reviews are always really good and I enjoy them,

[FullRangeMan]

A used Audio Mirror 6C33 45W could be interesting to try.
Audio Mirror site is gone.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I need 100 to 200 wpc if I keep the arendal speakers or if I get a pair of Magnepan LRS+

[FullRangeMan]

This is a lot of heat, these power levels are not viable for a tube amp.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

This is a lot of heat, these power levels are not viable for a tube amp.

These higher powered tube amps do get hot.  My BAT VK51se tube preamp with 8 tubes gets extremely hot.  This preamp uses as much power as a power amp.

The Ayon Triton is 135 wpc in pentode mode.  That is the one I want but the Triton 2 and 3's are going for $8K or more used.  1st gen Tritons are reasonable but I want the auto biasing and upgraded sound to the newer Tritons.

[FullRangeMan]

Big tube amps have several inconveniences, they are hot, very hot, need air conditioning, complex to built and repair, heavy, sometimes big, expensives, not mentioning cost of retube with matched valves.
You do right with Solid State.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Got my ML 5805 integrated amp today along with the Fritz Carbon Speakers. 

I do not have the Fritz set up yet but will tonight.  I have to wait for my son to get home to move the Arendal 66 pound speakers off their stands.  My back can't take it after lifting the 60 pound amp and the Fritz speakers which were in 1 box.

The 5805 is a keeper.  Finally after going through 2 other integrateds in a span of 1 month.  This amp is so smooth and non fatiguing yet is is very detailed.  It sounds like a tube amp.  It has great clarity and good resolution.  The midrange is musical and the lower midrange and bass have some warmth but not overly warm.  Just the right amount.  The upper midrange lacks the warmth and is neutral.  The soundstage is large but the Marantz PM-10 was larger and more holographic.  The top end is very smooth, non fatiguing.  This amp checks all the boxes for me and I can listen for hours.

Compared to my Pass amp and BAT preamp, it gives me about 90% and I can live with that.  However, the ML is not close to being broken in.  I suspect that it will improve, how much, we will see.

It is built extremely will with a great layout in the back of the unit.  Binding posts, XLR and RCA connectors are premium.  The remote is excellent.  Even the manual came in a spiral binder with thick paper.  No cheap chinese batteries, came with everyready.  Every thing about this amp screams premium built and it has the sound to back it up. 

My only beef is that it is a dual mono design and it only has 1 set of xlr inputs.  I will have to use my TT as single ended.  I guess they figured that this is an all in one amp with a built in DAC and phono preamp.  I am using my Luxman DAC and Gold Note phono preamp.  I will use the built in DAC for TV.

I will post a review when I hook up the Fritz speakers later tonight.

One last thing.  This amp has tremendous bass slam.  And on bass heavy music with the arendal speakers it is a bit much.  If I keep the speakers, I will buy the Schiit Lokius tone controls to tone it down a bit.  I have been thinking about buying one anyway.

Also the amp is fast.  Way faster than my lazy Pass amp and the other integrated amps that I tried. It will take some time to get used to it.  I like a little slower amp which sounds more natural to me.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I hooked up the Fritz speakers to the Levinson.  They are not broken in yet but sound very good and they are a good match for the 5805.  The Fritz so far have a neutral sound with a hint of warmth.  They are non fatiguing and you can listen to them all day.  They have deep punchy bass, a musical midrange and a smooth top end.

I will post a formal review in 2 weeks when they are more broken in.

I am lovin the 5805 so far and it is not even close to break in.  I am going to try its built in DAC today.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I tried the DAC in the 5805 last night and it is fabulous.  It sounds better than my Luxman in many respects.  It is more detailed and clear. The Luxman is a little warmer and has some bass bloom which I like but the internal DAC sounds so good.  I will probably keep both and just use either one based on my
tastes that day and the kind of music played.

I am going to try the internal phono preamp tonight.  I doubt that it will compete with my Gold Note phono pre.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Hi, I received my ML 5805 Integrated amp last week. I am downsizing from a Pass X250 amp and BAT VK51se tube preamp.

The amp is not even broken it yet but I thought that I would post a review now since it sounds great. List price is $10,500 but I got it as a Z stock (not B stock, as ML has their own rating system for some reason). It is brand new. I got if for about half off.

This amp is built well and weighs 60 pounds. It has a built in DAC ( more about that later) and phono preamp.
It is 125 wpc at 8 ohms and at least 215 wpc at 4 ohms although some have measured it higher. It can drive speakers down to 2 ohms.

The general tone of the amp is on the warm side of neutral but it is not overly warm. It has the right amount. The midrange is beautiful. It is clear, detailed, with generous spacing between instruments. It is also lush and full bodied despite having great air and transparency with a wide and huge soundstage. It presents a large scale.

The top end is smooth and non fatiguing without being rolled off. Treble is a little recessed but not overly so.

This is a very listenable amp with no fatigue or brightness. It plays loud without breaking up.

Bass is an area where there could be room for improvement. Bass is deep and powerful with good texture. However, it can be too powerful with bass heavy music. I am using them with a pair of Arendal 1528 bookshelf's, which have tremendous bass and they have been compared to having built in 8" subs. Well, with the ML, it is more like having 2x12" subs. I also have a pair of Fritz Carbon 7 speakers for me to review. They also have deep bass and the 5805 is still a bit much at times. Plugging the ports on both speakers fixes the issue. I am going to try them with my Magnepan 1.6's without my dual subs to see how they fair. I am sure that it will be a good match given how bass shy Maggies can be. The bass is there with Maggies, they just do not pressurize a room and they do not go down deep.

The amp would a great fit for speakers that are bass shy. The 5805 would not be a good match for a small apartment.

Compared to my Pass-BAT combo, the 5805 is more detailed and transparent with a wider sound stage. Bass is deeper too. The Pass has a more full midrange and sounds better with the Sax and Piano. However, it is close. Female vocals are better with the ML. The ML just sounds more refined for sure.

About the built in DAC. I tried it last night. My usb cable is a WW Starlight Platinum 7. Music is being played though Audirvana with up sampling on. My music is stored on a custom computer that I built with high end parts. It also has an aftermarket JCat usb card. My current DAC is a Luxman DA-06 which is several years old.

The DAC in the 5805 is excellent. It is better than the Luxman in many but not all ways. The ML DAC is clearer and more detailed. However, vocals are slightly pushed back. I prefer vocals to be in the middle or slightly forward. Female vocals have better texture with the ML. Bass is tighter than the Luxman. PRAT is faster with the 5805. The Luxman is slower which I prefer. The 5805 is just fast in general. I can live with that. I will continue using both DAC's depending upon my mood and music.

I have been though 2 other Integrated amps in the last month. The first was the PM-KI Ruby. I loved its tone, bass and lush, musical and warm midrange. Female vocals and Piano were fabulous. The issue was that it was a shouty with the Arendals and it lacked the extreme detail that I was used to. So I sold it and bought a Marantz PM-10. It was more detailed and refined with a huge soundstage. But it was even more shouty and it could be bright sounding with the Arendals. The center image was poor. It was diffuse like a wall of sound. So I returned it to Music Direct at a loss.

I am keeping the 5805. I just need to find a good match with speakers. I am on the fence with the Arendals which have their issues. They are not the perfect speaker that is portrayed on all the fabulous pro reviews.
The Fritz speakers are interesting and they sound great while I am breaking them in. They could be a keeper.
I am also going to bring my amp in to my local mom and pop high end stereo shop to try it with Magnepan LRS+. There will be no bass issue with them and I will use dual subs with them if I go that route. It would save me a ton of money as the Arendals are $4500 and the Fritz $2800, a virtual steal at this price. The LRS are $1K and another $300 for the upgraded stands.

[mr_bill]

Great review Larry and thanks for taking time to share your thoughts and experience.

It will be interesting to see what you think about the LRS+ once you hear it and as a Maggie 1.6 owner. you'll have another Maggie to compare with.  Smaller footprint and height so less imposing for sure.  I've never heard them but will be interested to see what you think.

[Mandplanes]

I tried the DAC in the 5805 last night and it is fabulous.  It sounds better than my Luxman in many respects.  It is more detailed and clear. The Luxman is a little warmer and has some bass bloom which I like but the internal DAC sounds so good.  I will probably keep both and just use either one based on my
tastes that day and the kind of music played.

I am going to try the internal phono preamp tonight.  I doubt that it will compete with my Gold Note phono pre.

Can I please check what your conclusion on the internal phono is? And which Gold Man do you have? I have been considering upgrading from the internal phono (I have the same amplifier) but just not sure how good it is.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I have not tried the internal phono preamp yet, but maybe I will on Thursday or Friday.  The reason for this is that my Gold Note PH-10 is just fabulous that I cannot see the GN being beat out as it is that good.  It has a huge sound stage, excellent detail and clarity.  It is neutral sounding and paired with my Pro-Ject Classic Evo TT and my Shelter 501 MKIII cartridge it beats out my very good digital with good recordings.  For reference, the Classic Evo is about a $2300 TT.

2 of my local audiophile friends bought the GN after hearing mine and they have higher end all Pass Labs systems.

I suspect that the phono preamp in the 5805 is very good but I doubt that it is on the same level as the $2300 Gold Note.  I bought my GN used for $975. The GN sounds better than a Darlington Labs MP8B phono preamp that we have.  My son uses it with the same TT that I have with a Nagaoka MP-200.  It does not have the same level of detail, spacing between instruments and huge sound stage that the GN has.  I actually tried the DL in my system.

If I try the preamp in the 5805, I will let you know.

[vintage9594]

I have used M/L gear in the past and had great luck with Revel and JBL speaker's.  Enjoy and good luck with the search.