[Whitespider]

I think that ship sailed 55 years ago. American audio companies have to compete with foreign audio companies if they want to survive which means having their products assembled overseas in the same huge factories as the foreign companies. AVA can make it here because I think every unit is hand built one-at-a-time, that is hard to do when your business model is based on selling 10,000 units a month.

The top audio companies in 1960 were:
McIntosh
Marantz
Fisher
Harman Kardon
H.H. Scott
Pioneer
JBL
Klipsch
Altec Lansing
Dynaco

Ten years later in the 1970's the market was dominated by foreign manufacturers:
Pioneer
Marantz
Sansui
Technics
JBL
Advent
Kenwood
Sony
Yamaha
Bowers & Wilkins

The lineup remained the same into the 2000's:
Sony
Pioneer
Panasonic
JBL
Bose
Kenwood
Marantz
Denon
Klipsch
Bowers & Wilkins

Some new names appear on the list around 2010 including:
Aperion Audio
Vandersteen Audio
Magnepan
KEF
Focal
Krell
Cambridge Audio


Of course if a person wanted to buy American there were always plenty of boutique audio companies but their prices were always more than I could comfortably afford which is why my preamp and amps are made by AVA.

I’m a bit late to this thread, but I think a couple of companies need to be included in the 1960’s.  Acoustic Research had nearly a third of the speakers being sold by the mid 60’s.  And the AR turntable, while not in the numbers of Dual or Garrard, was a good selling unit.  KLH was also an important player with everything from outstanding FM radios, suitcase-style all-in-one stereos,  to the exotic full range Model 9 electrostatic speaker.

Advent was most definitely an American company in the 1970s with manufacturing in Cambridge, MA.  Some of their electronics, such as the Modell 300 receiver were assembled in Mexico.  Advent went bankrupt in the early 1980’s.  Ironically, the best selling Large speaker model was priced too low and Advent was losing money on each sale.  Henry Kloss was associated with all three companies.

JBL designed and manufactured their speakers in Southern California through the early 2000’s when production went to Mexico and China.  But all of the various speaker drivers and cabinets were done in-house for most of JBL’s history.

Magnepan and Vanderseen date back to the 1970s and remain American companies.  Magnepan builds all of their speakers totally in-house.  Vandersteen, like 98% of speakers companies, outsource their drivers from overseas.

[Rusty Jefferson]

This thread is drifting way off topic. Can we rein it back in please?

[hawkmoon]

What is the next product Van Alstine is working on?  Digital, preamp or amplifier?

[jandrews]

Might be nice to see a headphone specific amp based on Mithat's discrete audio module...maybe we with a tube stage..or not

[Mithat]

What is the next product Van Alstine is working on?

This is a question I'd love to answer but am prevented from doing so by the Osborne effect. And by this, I don't mean that we have something we're planning to release next week that I can't talk about. We don't. It's just that as much as I'd love to talk about new things we're working on, it's not good policy to talk about anything new until it's fully ready. One case in point is our DVA Digital Preamplifier. It was ready to go ... and then the fire at the AKM factory happened ... and then the COVID epidemic. As a result, we didn't get it released for a long time after we thought its production was imminent. It's just hard to predict what's going to mess with your best laid plans.

[rcag_ils]

This thread is drifting way off topic. Can we rein it back in please?

How is it drifting way off topic, it's audio related, and it is audio history as far as I am concerned. I am getting ready to listen to my Advent speakers powered by the AVA equipment, what's wrong with that? Not everyone has the latest and the greatest stuff from the 2020's, we just happen to like that vintage sound.

[Whitespider]

Sorry for hijacking this thread away from the true topic, but I felt the need to clarify some audio history.

Although I no longer own any AVA pieces, I'm old enough to have owned items that still used the Jensen's Stereo stickers.  I still wish I kept my Van Alstine modified Audio Research SP3.

I'm seriously thinking of purchasing a NP1 amplifier as I downsize.  NP1 mono blocks would be nice but I can see that as being too much of a niche product.  The ideal product or feature would be a tone control setup similar to the one that Quad uses with a bass boost and a tilt control.  I know Schiit makes equalizers, I've owned a Loki Mini from the time of it's launch.  But equalizers are really not that fun to use for everyday listening. On the Quad 34 I once owned, one could boost the bass to use it like a variable loudness countour.  Playing the system at lower volumes, it was easy to get a better balance using the bass boost.  The tilt made it easier to deal with poorer recordings.  Unfortunately, the Quad 34 was a bit lifeless compared to other preamplifiers including any version of a AVA unit.  I would definitely pay for a standalone EQ unit that can be quickly adjusted to correct for better balance to the ear. 

[Mithat]

The ideal product or feature would be a tone control setup similar to the one that Quad uses with a bass boost and a tilt control.

Over the years, I've wondered whether there was a need for a product that offered equalization focused on correcting issues with room acoustics. Ideally, we'd all have our systems ideally positioned in ideal rooms, but that's a luxury few of us have. Sometimes things need just a little help. And, yes, it's very often the low end that needs a little tweak one way or the other.

This was something I couldn't get Frank excited about. And now that things have shifted so dramatically to the digital realm -- with folks applying whatever EQ they need from their streamers, apps, or other digital sources -- I'm not sure how much need there is for something like this anymore. (If your source is digital, doing it digitally makes infinitely more sense as you're not introducing additional active stages into the signal path, assuming the DSP is done well.)

Anyone else?

[Whitespider]

Over the years, I've wondered whether there was a need for a product that offered equalization focused on correcting issues with room acoustics. Ideally, we'd all have our systems ideally positioned in ideal rooms, but that's a luxury few of us have. Sometimes things need just a little help. And, yes, it's very often the low end that needs a little tweak one way or the other.

This was something I couldn't get Frank excited about. And now that things have shifted so dramatically to the digital realm -- with folks applying whatever EQ they need from their streamers, apps, or other digital sources -- I'm not sure how much need there is for something like this anymore. (If your source is digital, doing it digitally makes infinitely more sense as you're not introducing additional active stages into the signal path, assuming the DSP is done well.)

Anyone else?

Admittely, I don't use any digital equalizer software so I am ignorant of it's full potential.  I play vinyl through my turntables and phono units and use a Schiit Yggdrasil for the DAC for my CDs.  If I use the Manley Absolute as a line stage, I can use it's bass and treble controls for a bit of tuning.  I included some images of a Quad 34 showing the bass lift/step and tilt controls along with the scope images of what happens with the signal.  I suspect many are not familiar with the Quad control.  One can simply switch to change the bass contour and the tilt changes the frequency around 1K.  Treble on the 34 was handled by 3 push buttons with different slopes.  The later 44 model (and other Quad preamps that followed) had more choices on the treble contouring.  But, the beauty of the EQ over other types, was it was extremely friendly.  There were finite choice.  A typical equalizer allows for too much flexibility which can good in some cases, but after awhile one simply ignore it because it's never seems "right". 

[rcag_ils]

Mithat should start making speakers again or at least make the Kensington subwoofer available for the Biro users. We Biro users missed the buying opportunity since it was only available for a short period of time.

[Mithat]

Mithat should start making speakers again or at least make the Kensington subwoofer available for the Biro users. We Biro users missed the buying opportunity since it was only available for a short period of time.

Thanks for the vote of confidence! If you're in a DIY mood, I can send you a schematic for the analog filter used in the Kensington. This should let you use third-party subwoofers that have a flat response from the mid-20s upwards with either the Biro L/1 or L/2.

[rcag_ils]

Mithat, PM sent, thank you.

[Tone Depth]

Does the DVA digital preamp "Class A reconstruction stage" function as an analog buffer on the output? I recall Frank saying that the buffer in the analog preamp outputs was very important to the audio quality driving power amps.

I just saw a YouTube video by Paul McGowan about PS Audio recently reinstituting a buffer to their preamps, after many years saying it wasn't necessary.

[Mithat]

Does the DVA digital preamp "Class A reconstruction stage" function as an analog buffer on the output? I recall Frank saying that the buffer in the analog preamp outputs was very important to the audio quality driving power amps.

I just saw a YouTube video by Paul McGowan about PS Audio recently reinstituting a buffer to their preamps, after many years saying it wasn't necessary.

The DVA Digital Preamp's analog reconstruction is a one-stage circuit that simultaneously filters and buffers the DAC IC's outputs. We haven't seen a situation with it where an additional buffer/driver stage would be beneficial. You can have a gander at DACs and the Differential Dilemma for some more information on the architecture of the output stage.

[AllanS]

Over the years, I've wondered whether there was a need for a product that offered equalization focused on correcting issues with room acoustics…And now that things have shifted so dramatically to the digital realm -- with folks applying whatever EQ they need from their streamers, apps, or other digital sources -- I'm not sure how much need there is for something like this anymore…
Anyone else?

I may be an outlier in this hobby, or at least the subset of hobbyists who populate related forums, but this portion of an indirect competitor product description sums up my experience and level of patience for fiddling with stuff, especially EQ/DSP.

“Yes, tone control. As in, equalizer…And yeah, we know you can get a surgical software EQ, but the 6 knobs here just sit on your desk and beckon. No apps, no graphic confusion…”

My digital front end incorporates graphic/PEQ (part of the buying decision) but the actual interfaces are several menus deep, they aren’t as intuitive as they at first appear, and/or they simply do not respond in an intuitive fashion.  Maybe I’m a too impatient old dog but in this respect the equipment simply gets in the way of enjoying some music.

EQ of digital in the digital domain of course makes sense.  But at some level the nth degree of resolution, noise, or whatever distortion just doesn’t matter and inserting something in the analog signal path isn’t heresy.

It wasn’t until a couple of months ago when I was fitted for hearing aids that I realized how much I had been missing.  Yet I agonized over every silly little system and/or setup change in the preceding years because I failed to hear any differences.  Well duh.  First things first.

In a nod to a significant demographic, there are umpteen threads on audiophile hearing aids and such which, for me, just adds another layer and level of frustration.  If for no other reason than they are only active to 8K I don’t like to listen through the hearing aids. 

Many in this hobby value the fussing and tweaking.  It’s part of their enjoyment.  That just isn’t me.  So I use, within its limits, a simple 6 band analog tone control to mimic my hearing aid program.  It’s imperfect at best and more akin to the Quad shape control but it works for me.

Specific to room acoustics and getting back on topic, I agree DSP is probably the best.  But room acoustics goes way beyond simple FR corrections and practical DSP applications probably go beyond room corrections.  How about importing and overlaying hearing aid programs on room corrections?

While DSP may dominate for good reason, I will argue that it isn’t for everyone.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I recently bought the Lokius tone controls and love it. I also downloaded the newer Audirvana  Studio and it has a build in equalizer that is easy to use.  I may sell the Lokius which works great or I may just use it for my TT.  Studio is worth the upgrade sound wise.