[JackD]

Larry

It's my understanding that the Be models are a thing of the past.  Having owned a pair for three years I don't think they would have been your cup of tea.  With the wrong gear (not tubes) or sympathetic room placement they could be forward sounding and somewhat fatiguing in a short period of time.  I would think the replacement Carrera R model with the soft dome tweeter would be a speaker more to your liking.  Bass will be full and satisfying with the Revelator woofer and they can fill a larger room like yours with no problem.  Since you are not looking to buy for a while things with his model line could change by then but it would be well worth your effort to have a phone discussion with Fritz as like many of us he is a gear guy and has tried his speakers with a large number of different amps including several of Frank's models that you are familiar with.  I tried mine with the SET 400 along with with hybrid BHK 250 , SS from Audia Flight and Kinki as well as EL-84 and EL-34 tube amps. The best sound to my ears that I got from my pair was with the Music Reference RM-10 and Supratek Chardonnay combo. From my discussions with him over the years Fritz always seems to go back to tube amps in the end at his house.

[TomS]

Oh man, so am I. The only speaker I would trade them for is the larger model they are working on. I'm not kidding.


Cheers!

Dave

Another vote for the 8c's. I really have no idea what it is they could improve with larger ones 
I have my "high end" preamp, dac, and power amp sitting in storage, just the vinyl setup left now, and a Bacch4Mac 

[WGH]

WGH, how was the bass output?  Was the sound stage huge, wide, deep?  Can they play loud without breaking up? Do they have excellent air and transparency and do the speakers disappear?  How is the detail as I certainly do not want less detail than my system now? I have read that the midrange is tonally rich, dose it lean a bit to the warmer side which I prefer?

Last question, how was the top end?  I am so sensitive to brightness and sibilance.  I worked very hard to get rid of any brightness in my system.  I read that they are supposed to be fabulous at low volumes and that is a must.  They also have to be able to fill a medium to large room, about 18'x18', 9 foot ceilings for now at least.


Do you know how the Carrera BE's compare?  I see there is a Carbon 7 for about $1K more that uses the BE's tweeter.

Bass is terrific, I thought there was a sub when I heard the Carrera's in Fritz's photo. That said, everybody in Tucson had subs of different sizes but they were all turned down low. Yes, they go loud but there is a little breakup at 90 db rock levels. The air is better with the Carrera, that is the model I would audition. Sound is rich and a little on the warm side, The Carbon 7's are not as analytical as my Salk HT-2TL speakers. No brightness or sibilance to speak of, the Maggie 1.7i's with Pass are brighter. Both the Carbon 7's and Carrera's sound is beautifully balanced. Yes they will fill a room. The first thing you will notice is the speakers disappear, sit in the sweet spot and all you hear is soundstage.

I don't know about the current Carreras, Fritz changes up drivers if he finds something better.

Sometimes there are loaners, there may be a pair hanging out in Minneapolis just waiting, there are Fritz speakers everywhere, you never know.

Set aside an hour and give Fritz a call. Talk about everything audio, you can't stump him, he is like a mad audio genius. Fun conversations for sure.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Thanks again WGH.  I am going to call Fritz today or tomorrow. 

You are wrong about the Maggies and the Pass X250.  This is the original X250 and it has no brightness at all, at least in my system.  Now my Parasound A21 amp had brightness with the Maggies.

[WGH]

I meant the Maggie 1.7i were brighter than the soft dome tweeter in the Carbon 7. Not many speakers have the see-through clarity as the Maggies. My friend is a DIY Pass amp collector, he builds one then he builds another, and another. All the Pass amps have a slightly different sound, we were listening the Pass XA25 amp (25 Wpc) for the Maggie/Fritz comparison. A pair of Falcon LS3/5A speakers also made a brief appearance, I could hear why people love them even with their limited frequency range.

He currently has a F4, F5, F6 and the XA25

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Wow, I would love to be able to build those amps.  I just don't have the testing equipment needed.  I did build a Pass B1 Buffer/Preamp with better parts.  It came out well.

I did call Fritz and we are going to talk extensively tomorrow.  I want to know the differences between the Carrera R and the Carbon SE MKII.  I am considering the Ebony veneer.

I would really like to buy the Arendal 1528 bookshelf's, but they do not sound good at low volumes.  However, they are supposed to be very forgiving or poor recordings despite having a detailed sound.  If I still had my Pass preamp I would consider them more.  The Pass X1 preamp sounded great at low volumes for whatever reason.  My BAT pre does not.  But damn, 66 pound per speaker.

The Fritz seems like a good compromise between the E50's and the 1528's.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Larry

It's my understanding that the Be models are a thing of the past.  Having owned a pair for three years I don't think they would have been your cup of tea.  With the wrong gear (not tubes) or sympathetic room placement they could be forward sounding and somewhat fatiguing in a short period of time.  I would think the replacement Carrera R model with the soft dome tweeter would be a speaker more to your liking.  Bass will be full and satisfying with the Revelator woofer and they can fill a larger room like yours with no problem.  Since you are not looking to buy for a while things with his model line could change by then but it would be well worth your effort to have a phone discussion with Fritz as like many of us he is a gear guy and has tried his speakers with a large number of different amps including several of Frank's models that you are familiar with.  I tried mine with the SET 400 along with with hybrid BHK 250 , SS from Audia Flight and Kinki as well as EL-84 and EL-34 tube amps. The best sound to my ears that I got from my pair was with the Music Reference RM-10 and Supratek Chardonnay combo. From my discussions with him over the years Fritz always seems to go back to tube amps in the end at his house.

Thanks Jack, I talked to Fritz today for 45 minutes and I don't think I knew anymore about the differences between the Carrera R and the Carbon MKII speakers.  He talked about the BE tweeter and he never really liked them, too bright apparently.  So he stopped using them.  I am still deciding and really like the Arendal 1528 bookshelfs but they are 66 pounds each.  Every review thinks that they are the best speakers at this price point and nothing is close.  Desalla really loves them and said that he can listen to them for hours on end.  He said they compete with his personal reference speakers and those are almost 7 feet tall from the looks of them.  They compete with speakers in the $14K range. The speakers are huge and are really standmounts not bookshelfs.

However, I still have not ruled out the Fritz speakers.  I like their size and the fact you can get custom veneers like ebony which I really want.

[JackD]

Larry

From reading the specs of the two speakers and from my conversations with Fritz over the years the difference is in the drivers.  The Carbon 7 Mk II uses updated versions from the ones used in the Odyssey Lorelei which I owned.  The Carrera of either version uses the Revelator woofer which is several steps up the line from the Carbon 7 woofer and in the room I had it in at both houses it had easily solid bass into the lower 30's.  I still ran them with subs but not really needed. The new SB Acoustis tweeter appears to be something similar to the Scan Speak Illuminator line.  I have never heard one but have faith that Fritz is using a new tweeter that does just to the TOTL woofer in that model.  As this companies tweetesr were used a lot by Jim Salk maybe those owners can chip in on it's sound.  Though I certainly have no use for more pairs of speakers I still started to call Fritz about the Carrera R for the heck of it and at some point may still. My Carrera Be's were in the Tiger Ebony and were great looking speakers. Don't think you could go wrong with either but I would buy the Carrera R for the Revelator woofer.  Were it not for the Be tweeter I could never quite tame I would still own my pair of Carrera's.

I know you've said you're really not ready to do anything right now even though you wife would like the speakers changed, but I would seriously consider looking into the Aspen FR-5 at their current sale price either with or without the dedicated stands.  My friend with the big Acora's got a pair with the stands at the end of last week and he has been more than impressed.  Bass is deep and the ribbon tweeter is smooth with no hint of harshness. Sale runs to the end of the month.

https://www.psaudio.com/products/aspen-fr5-loudspeaker?variant=48445797794082

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Thanks Jack,  I am going to text Fritz to see if he has a loaner pair of the Carrera R speakers.  I really like the looks and I would order it in the Tiger Ebony as well.  That is my favorite or possibly the striped Redwood a close second.  They would look great in a high gloss finish like the Monitor audio gold speakers that use tiger Ebony or something similar.  Unfortunately, Fritz does not do gloss finishes. 

I looked at the PSA speakers.  They are pretty small but they seem to put out room filling sound.  I have considered these.  I don't care for the looks but it is the sound that counts.  They do look better than the E50's though.

The more I research the E50's the more I would be willing to put up with how it looks.  I think that keeping it all black and keep the round front cover on it and leave the tweeter open.

Since I upgraded my TT to the Pro-Ject Classic Evo and my phono preamp to the Gold Note PH-10 I haven't listened to digital in 3 months and my digital sounds fabulous with my Luxman DAC and JCat usb card powered by an external LPS, but the vinyl sounds even better believe it or not.   So I want a speaker that has very good detail to use with vinyl.  I am using a Nagaoka MP-200 MM cartridge currently but plan on upgrading to a Shelter 500 v3 MC cartridge.  It is warm and a little forgiving but not a detail champ.  It will have more detail than the MP-200 for sure but I think a speaker that has very good detail would be a good match.  Especially if I sell my Pass and BAT and get a 60-100 wpc tube int. amp like a Cary, Ayon or Galion TD120.

I guess I am beating this thread to death already.  I will let you know what I decide here in the next few weeks.

[WGH]

I really like the looks...

Fritz speakers come with magnetically attached grills too, something your wife may appreciate.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

One more speaker I am throwing into the mix is the brand new Monitor Audio Gold 100 6G.   Andrew Robinson gave it a great review.  It uses all new drivers and it is very good upgrade to the outgoing model. However to keep the cost down they downgraded the looks of the cabinet.  I really like MA and own 2 pairs of older Silvers.  They make good and some great sounding speakers.

I have decided to order the Arendal 1528 Bookshelf 8 speaker.  If I like it I will keep it, if not, then I will go with the MA.   I am going to order them in 1-2 weeks and I will post my impressions.

I have already purchased a used Marantz PM-KI Ruby integrated amp as my downsizing of my system begins. If I do not like it, I will flip it and buy a used Marantz PM-10 from Japan.

 I need to see a psychiatrist because I am greatly going to miss my Pass amp, BAT pre and Maggie 1.6's.  I am going to miss the scale and depth of the system and the Maggies.

Guys, don't ever make a promise to your wife that you would downsize when you are getting ready to retire.

[TomS]

One more speaker I am throwing into the mix is the brand new Monitor Audio Gold 100 6G.   Andrew Robinson gave it a great review.  It uses all new drivers and it is very good upgrade to the outgoing model. However to keep the cost down they downgraded the looks of the cabinet.  I really like MA and own 2 pairs of older Silvers.  They make good and some great sounding speakers.

I have decided to order the Arendal 1528 Bookshelf 8 speaker.  If I like it I will keep it, if not, then I will go with the MA.   I am going to order them in 1-2 weeks and I will post my impressions.

I have already purchased a used Marantz PM-KI Ruby integrated amp as my downsizing of my system begins. If I do not like it, I will flip it and buy a used Marantz PM-10 from Japan.

 I need to see a psychiatrist because I am greatly going to miss my Pass amp, BAT pre and Maggie 1.6's.  I am going to miss the scale and depth of the system and the Maggies.

Guys, don't ever make a promise to your wife that you would downsize when you are getting ready to retire.

David S (schw06) has a pair of brand new 1528's for sale in GA. Great seller. https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/650210179-arendal-1528-bookshelf-8-basalt-not-available-for-new-purchase-for-almost-6-months/

[I.Greyhound Fan]

Thanks for tip.  Unfortunately, I want them in white and just placed an order.  They are backordered until September.  I am in no rush to  replace my beloved Maggies.

Tom, he is not selling them at any significant savings at $4100.  Once you add shipping to MN from Atlanta it is going to be a wash. Plus, I won't have the 60 day return policy if I don't like them.