[catluck]

Not to step on anyone's toes, is it OK to start a new topic, as Spatial suggested it would do, confined to X-over updates?  Perhaps Spatial could weigh in with what info is needed to begin a X-over update, anticipated cost, lead time, etc.  It seems as though there is substantial interest.

[Spatial Audio]

Thanks for starting the new thread.
This is the current status of crossovers we are working on...
X4 - immediate availability (P2 Crossover available for $2,100/pr w/ shipping included to lower 48)
M6 - immediate availability - $1,850/pr w/ shipping included to lower 48
M4 - <15 days to finalizing the design
M3 - 30-45 days to finalize the design (longer if we need to order parts not on hand); 2 different version depending on the baffle shape and woofers used.
X3 and X5 modifications may be possible if someone wants to donate their baffles to the cause. We would have to get creative with those since the components are mounted inside or extend the wires to an external crossover box like the X4.

When we first spoke with Dave about his M6, we thought this would have very limited interest.
As we look at this in terms of wider interest across the different legacy speaker models, we are trying to figure out if it makes sense to offer more cost-effective options that do not provide what we think is the best possible sound. The difference would be using less expensive components that generally improve tonality, balance and imaging vs higher end components that also improve soundstage, even better imaging and detail. We want to provide our customers with the same 45-day in-home trial. With the high end components we have confidence to do that. Not as much when we feel like we are compromising in order to be more affordable. (For example, we could make an M6 crossover for about $500 less using lower cost components.)

Would really like to know what people on this forum think about that.

[AllanS]

See also conundrum…
My interest is improved layering. Given that bias, my sense is anyone serious enough to consider a crossover upgrade has identified specific deficiencies and would find value in and prefer the higher quality components even if they go over and above.  The option would be different speakers where the $500 difference is much less than the beating an owner would take in the used market.  A box of cross overs would be a heck of a lot less expensive to ship than speakers so there is also lower risk demoing cross overs than speakers.
Everyone will have different priorities and constraints.  But if speakers are the most important investment, $500 in total system cost is more or less a rounding error at this level.
Would it make sense to have one of each crossover dedicated to a demo tour with each on the tour having a week to demo a fully broken in crossover before forwarding to the next in line?

[Cloud.sessions]

I think these upgrades are a wonderful thing, but I definitely think a cheaper option would be beneficial. Many don’t have the funds or maybe aren’t sure what actual difference these hand picked parts bring. At the end of the day the most important part is the design, a capacitor upgrade isn’t going to change how linear the new design is both on and off access, how well resonances were mitigated, keeping the distortion profile low on all of the drivers, keeping the compression levels low at given volumes, ect… The design is the cake, and the parts are the frosting. Yes the parts matter but I wouldn’t hesitate to upgrade my original (Clayton designed) crossover for the newly designed crossover with the same part quality as the original.

If you break down the cost of an M6 crossover with good components but nothing breaking the bank. You could do it for $222 in parts for the pair. That’s using quality Jantzen inductors, Jantzen Zcap and standard Cross cap polypropylene capacitors, and Mills resistors. Now you take into account the boxes, connectors, wire and any hardware. You’re looking more like $450-$500 before any labor or profit. So you’re probably looking at $1k plus shipping for the value crossover pair.

I’m not sure anyone wants the value crossover but you could always have both and see what sales. If you don’t really have any customers for the value crossover then discontinue it.

[DaveWin88]

I have a couple of thoughts guys on the upgrades. First do you like the speakers? I know this sounds trivial, but we have to ask ourselves? Do we like what you're hearing? If yes is the case. even a modest upgrade would be beneficial! Just the balance alone is a big deal! That prominent tilt in the originals are masking detail, overpowering the bass/highs! 

If you really like what you're hearing, and plan on keeping these long term? I wouldn't hesitate to go right the top option! You'll be hearing your electronics at their finest! 
Balance
Dynamics
Low noise floor
Open/transparent

All these equal a very 3 dimensional soundstage/image! Full-time! Not the slivers we hear from time to time (fleeting) Probably to a level you've never heard before (Myself included)
Keep in mind you're only going to hear them what your system is capable of?

[theclipper]

I would vote for the best possible sound option personally. Definitely interested in updating my M3's.

[theclipper]

Has anyone else given these a shot yet? Curious for any other feedback.

[AllanS]

Has anyone else given these a shot yet? Curious for any other feedback.

Check DaveWin88 in this thread starting on page 2
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=191722.0

[Spatial Audio]

There is a new page on the website for crossover upgrades
The M4 upgrade requires new baffle wiring to make it a 2.5-way with Duelund wire in place of the original.

https://www.spatialaudiolab.com/crossover-upgrades

The M3 upgrade only works with the Eminence woofers shown.

[Charles Xavier]

There is a new page on the website for crossover upgrades
The M4 upgrade requires new baffle wiring to make it a 2.5-way with Duelund wire in place of the original.

https://www.spatialaudiolab.com/crossover-upgrades

The M3 upgrade only works with the Eminence woofers shown.

Originally you said I had a different M3 woofer but it looks the same. How can we tell the difference

[Spatial Audio]

Originally you said I had a different M3 woofer but it looks the same. How can we tell the difference

We were able to get a set of the Eminence woofers like yours. Those are what we used to develop the upgrade.

[Charles Xavier]

We were able to get a set of the Eminence woofers like yours. Those are what we used to develop the upgrade.

Great news

[Audiosaurusrex]

Thanks for starting the new thread.
This is the current status of crossovers we are working on...
X4 - immediate availability (P2 Crossover available for $2,100/pr w/ shipping included to lower 48)
M6 - immediate availability - $1,850/pr w/ shipping included to lower 48
M4 - <15 days to finalizing the design
M3 - 30-45 days to finalize the design (longer if we need to order parts not on hand); 2 different version depending on the baffle shape and woofers used.
X3 and X5 modifications may be possible if someone wants to donate their baffles to the cause. We would have to get creative with those since the components are mounted inside or extend the wires to an external crossover box like the X4.

When we first spoke with Dave about his M6, we thought this would have very limited interest.
As we look at this in terms of wider interest across the different legacy speaker models, we are trying to figure out if it makes sense to offer more cost-effective options that do not provide what we think is the best possible sound. The difference would be using less expensive components that generally improve tonality, balance and imaging vs higher end components that also improve soundstage, even better imaging and detail. We want to provide our customers with the same 45-day in-home trial. With the high end components we have confidence to do that. Not as much when we feel like we are compromising in order to be more affordable. (For example, we could make an M6 crossover for about $500 less using lower cost components.)

Would really like to know what people on this forum think about that.

So I have an early model M3 cir 2019 with no outboard X-over. Would this model be possible to upgrade and at what cost? I'm assuming this would be a DIY as shipping would not be reasonable. I am interested as well. TIA 

[AllanS]

Changing the M4 from 2 to 2.5 way requires returning the baffles.  I'm guessing this is to pull new wires.  Is there a reason why a customer can't complete this part of the rework?  Is it correct to assume that should a M4 customer choose to return the crossover that the wiring would have to revert to 2 way - ie another rework?

Thanks

[Spatial Audio]

Changing the M4 from 2 to 2.5 way requires returning the baffles.  I'm guessing this is to pull new wires.  Is there a reason why a customer can't complete this part of the rework?  Is it correct to assume that should a M4 customer choose to return the crossover that the wiring would have to revert to 2 way - ie another rework?

Thanks

It's possible to do the wiring yourself if you are handy with a soldering iron. And, the wire doesn't HAVE to be replaced. We like the Duelund wire as a replacement and we could send pre-cut lengths of wire as part of a kit. However, the existing wire can be re-terminate at the connector in a way that uses a common ground instead of discreet grounding wires for each driver. We could provide photos and instructions.

[Mr. Big]

I have the M3 Sapphire speakers, where the crossover detaches from the speaker, so a replacement would be easy to do. Can you send me 2 updated crossovers, then I will ship them back to you to use for another customer who might want an update.

 Thanks Phil

[Spatial Audio]

I have the M3 Sapphire speakers, where the crossover detaches from the speaker, so a replacement would be easy to do. Can you send me 2 updated crossovers, then I will ship them back to you to use for another customer who might want an update.

 Thanks Phil

Please call me tomorrow to discuss the details- 801-367-1664