Looking for Help With Streamer and DAC Upgrades

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WGH

Re: Looking for Help With Streamer and DAC Upgrades
« Reply #60 on: 16 Apr 2025, 08:36 pm »
Do streamers impact sound quality?  I thought not since I assumed a streamer gets the audio file, fully intact, to the DAC.

Yes streamers impact sound quality. The streaming file may have data-related timing issues (jitter) or digital signal integrity problems, I have read there is no error correction between a streamer and a DAC.

The Mac Mini was well regarded as a streamer. Search for "Mac Mini" in the GR Research Circle. Eric Hider was offering mods to make it even better.

I built a streamer/music server because I needed more computing horsepower than most commercially available streamers and I like building things (and I have building computers since 1997). My streamer has 3 separate linear power supplies to keep noise at a minimum and a JCAT Audio Grade USB card to keep jitter at a minimum. I upsample all my files to DSD256 which is why I need the Intel i7 processor but I can also upsample PCM (or not) and use different filters to compare PCM to DSD processing and generally play around with sound.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=177495.msg1867916#msg1867916

I think your PS Audio DAC upsamples everything to DSD128 whereas the newest DirectStream upsamples to DSD256.

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Looking for Help With Streamer and DAC Upgrades
« Reply #61 on: 16 Apr 2025, 08:55 pm »
Yeah, I think I'd like to do that.

As to hearing the DAC, I attempted to give it a go yesterday and realized I lack the cables for my MiniMac to the DAC and so I just figured I would patiently wait for the streamer upgrade, which will be awhile due to financial restraints.

Quick question.  Do streamers impact sound quality?  I thought not since I assumed a streamer gets the audio file, fully intact, to the DAC.

Some of my spelling mistakes are ridiculous!  I had audiophile and not audio file - sheesh!


I will contact my friend and see if he wants the business.  It might take 2-3 days but I will get back with you.  He is currently working on 2 phono preamps of mine and he cleaned, lubricated and adjusted my old Thorens TD-145 TT that I actually bought from him. 

By all means, buy a usb cable and test out the dac to make sure its working.  Even home depot and Walgreens pharmacies sell cheap usb cables.  Depending upon the age of your mac mini it either takes a USB A or if it is newer it will take a Thunderbolt USB C.

And yes, streamers do impact the sound.  The sound is not perfect.  PS audio has a new streamer that is supposed to give excellent sound quality but they are not cheap.  Lumin makes good sounding streamers that sound way better than the Blue Sound Nodes IMHO.  I took a friend to a couple of audio shops and we compared the $2500 Lumin D3 to the cheaper blue sound node and it was no contest.  The BSN sound truly muddy in comparison to the Lumin. He ended up buying the Lumin and a Rogue Audio Cronus tube integrated. You get what you pay for usually in audio.

genjamon

Re: Looking for Help With Streamer and DAC Upgrades
« Reply #62 on: 16 Apr 2025, 08:56 pm »
Yes streamers impact sound quality. The streaming file may have data-related timing issues (jitter) or digital signal integrity problems, I have read there is no error correction between a streamer and a DAC.

The Mac Mini was well regarded as a streamer. Search for "Mac Mini" in the GR Research Circle. Eric Hider was offering mods to make it even better.

I built a streamer/music server because I needed more computing horsepower than most commercially available streamers and I like building things (and I have building computers since 1997). My streamer has 3 separate linear power supplies to keep noise at a minimum and a JCAT Audio Grade USB card to keep jitter at a minimum. I upsample all my files to DSD256 which is why I need the Intel i7 processor but I can also upsample PCM (or not) and use different filters to compare PCM to DSD processing and generally play around with sound.
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=177495.msg1867916#msg1867916

I think your PS Audio DAC upsamples everything to DSD128 whereas the newest DirectStream upsamples to DSD256.

In contrast, o2b's Mac Mini uses an incredibly noisy SMPS for power and has really shitty clocking on its USB outputs.  Eric Hider's mods were software-based if I recall - creating a really stripped down operating system that eliminated extra processing noise internally.  But I don't think he address the noisy power supply, nor the basic hardware limitations of the USB output of the Mac Mini.  Other companies like Uptone Audio offer replacement power supplies that are way way quieter, but these mods cost some significant outlays, and still don't address the USB output compromises. 

Eric Hider was offering these mods back in 2010 roughly.  The streamer world has moved light years forward since then.  At this point, I would highly recommend an Eversolo A6 Master Level with an aftermarket linear power supply, which you should be able to get for around $1k or a little more.  Or the Eversolo A8, which you can probably get used for $1500-1600 and does not require an aftermarket linear power supply (it has one built in).  These will have low noise power supplies, upgraded clocking on their outputs, and an incredibly versatile software package that makes streaming rather easy and flexible.  It's way, way more user-friendly than setting up an Mac Mini and will open you up to the world of controlling your streamer with a great app on your phone instead of having to try and bootstrap a solution with your Mac Mini for remote control. 

I have the Eversolo A6 Master with a Teddy Pardo power supply, and I've found the coax output to be better than the USB for my purposes - feeding a tube DAC to get some warm and seductive feels.  I used to have a stock Mac Mini with some software package, then moved to a first gen Auralic Aries, then to a Sonore Ultrarendu with an excellent power supply, and then about a year ago to the Eversolo.  The Eversolo is not quite in the league of the Ultrarendu in the sound quality department, but it's leagues better in the software department.  Eversolo is probably better than the Auralic Aries was too.  The Aries was a pretty sizeable jump up in sound quality from my old Mac Mini, so the Eversolo is an even bigger jump, and the Ultrarendu (with a good enough power supply and investments in network power and filtration) is better yet.  For the money, Eversolo takes the prize for me, hands down.   

Someone else in this thread mentioned that you might go with a Holo Audio Red instead of an Eversolo if all you want is a streamer (you don't want or need to try out the Eversolo's built in DAC).  I don't disagree in principle, but I haven't heard the Holo Red to compare on sound quality (thought I read somewhere that it isn't quite up to the Eversolo level when using a linear power supply for the Eversolo, but not sure that's reliable).  However, the Eversolo gives you maximal versatility for not that much more money.  If you ever have problems with your PS Audio DAC and need to do without it for a while, you can use the Eversolo instead.  Or you might find that the Eversolo DAC is good enough for you (a lot of people think it's rather good), and offload your PS Audio.  With the Eversolo, you have the ability to try it out in various configurations and have flexibility for the future.

I also owned the Spatial Audio M1's, which were the immediate predecessor to the M3's, so I have a good sense of what they are capable of.  IMO there is a reasonable chance that the Eversolo's DAC could have better synergy with your M3's than the PS Audio DAC, which is known as being a bit warmer and smoother in character, whereas the Eversolo DAC is crystal clear and airy, if a bit incisive.  Different flavors.  I'm sure the PS Audio is more refined on the whole, but maybe not by THAT much, and overall system synergy can be really important. 

Ok, I've rambled enough.


JackD

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Re: Looking for Help With Streamer and DAC Upgrades
« Reply #63 on: 17 Apr 2025, 02:13 am »
To get the best sound from the Directstream Mk I you need to use the I2S input whether you get that from a compatible streamer or from a DDC.  In that regard the Holo Red is a better option than the Eversolo's especially the DMP-A6 whose HDMI output is multi-channel audio.  I own both a Holo Red and a DMP-A6 with an upgraded power supply and to my ears the Red is a better sounding unit anyway.  The catch with the Red is that until the tariff situation is sorted out Tim at Kitsune is not importing anymore Holo units into the US.  With that in mind the next best sounding input on the Mk I is the AES/EBU input. 

Tyson

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Re: Looking for Help With Streamer and DAC Upgrades
« Reply #64 on: 17 Apr 2025, 02:17 am »
The Red is a good option, sounds great.  I ran one for a while in my system.  But the Rivo Plus is a much better sounding unit especially with the external linear power supply:

https://shop.volumio.com/product/rivo-plus/

Daryl Zero

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Re: Looking for Help With Streamer and DAC Upgrades
« Reply #65 on: 17 Apr 2025, 02:02 pm »
With the PS Audio Directstream, you need to make sure that the DDC is compatible (alluded to by JackD below) with the PS Audio on the I2S. Some DDCs have the ability to adjust its pin pattern or you can also look to I2S cables that don't use the videos pins. I had to sell a Denafrips Iris and get the Denafrips Hermes because the Iris could not adjust to the PS Audio pin pattern.

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Looking for Help With Streamer and DAC Upgrades
« Reply #66 on: 17 Apr 2025, 02:18 pm »
FYI, Paul the CEO of PS audio feels that the PS DSD dac sounds best through usb.  He said it on the forum.  I haven't heard the I2s connection so I cannot comment on it.  Of course, it is all subjective.

JackD

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Re: Looking for Help With Streamer and DAC Upgrades
« Reply #67 on: 17 Apr 2025, 02:21 pm »
Though I never used one with my Mk I, ones that should work based on info from the PS Audio forum are the adjustable Denafrips models, Singxer, the Laiv uDDC and the most popular one there the Matrix Audio DDC.

JackD

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Re: Looking for Help With Streamer and DAC Upgrades
« Reply #68 on: 17 Apr 2025, 02:23 pm »
USB is the best on the Mk II, but even Ted promoted the use of a DDC on the Mk I.  He used the Matrix as it was one of the few on the market originally.

o2b

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Re: Looking for Help With Streamer and DAC Upgrades
« Reply #69 on: 17 Apr 2025, 08:23 pm »
Just to let you guys know, presently I have no sound with the Mac Mini usb 3 connected to the PS Audio usb.  I have no idea why but I am guessing the signal is not making it from Mini to Dac.  The computer did output "No Apogee found," the Apogee Ensemble being the DAC I replaced.

I am guessing I have to "tell" the Mini about the PS Audio?  Or tell Channel D (the software that uses Itunes) and through which I played music.

At this point, I am lost.

Just an update.

Doublej

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Re: Looking for Help With Streamer and DAC Upgrades
« Reply #70 on: 17 Apr 2025, 08:51 pm »
When connected,  (I think) in the System Settings of your Mac, the PS Audio DAC should show up as an output device under System Settings, Sound, Output and Input, Output Tab.

Do you see it there?

newzooreview

Re: Looking for Help With Streamer and DAC Upgrades
« Reply #71 on: 17 Apr 2025, 09:02 pm »
Perhaps restart the Mac with the PS Audio DAC connected. And then just check the drop-down menu in the Finder that shows the audio output options. The PS Audio DAC should be listed there. The Mac doesn't need any drivers to connect to a USB DAC (for the 99% of DACs that use the USB audio standard).

The software you are using, Channel D?, is a second level issue. The DAC should be listed as an audio output option in the Finder after restarting the computer, before opening Channel D or other apps.

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Looking for Help With Streamer and DAC Upgrades
« Reply #72 on: 17 Apr 2025, 11:15 pm »
Just to let you guys know, presently I have no sound with the Mac Mini usb 3 connected to the PS Audio usb.  I have no idea why but I am guessing the signal is not making it from Mini to Dac.  The computer did output "No Apogee found," the Apogee Ensemble being the DAC I replaced.

I am guessing I have to "tell" the Mini about the PS Audio?  Or tell Channel D (the software that uses Itunes) and through which I played music.

At this point, I am lost.

Just an update.


I am assuming that the DAC turns on.  Power it down, connect to the mac, turn on the DAC, you have to  go into the DAC menu and pick usb as the input.  Also, make sure that the Mac recognises the DAC.  They guy who owned it previously may have been using I2s connection and you have to change it.  Ask the guy what he used for the input.  If you still have issues, contact PS Audio and ask for help.  They are very helpful.

What usb cable are you using? Some cheap ones seem to not work.  But I would talk to PS Audio first.

Hopefully, the guy who sold it was honest.  And hopefully can get your money back through Pay Pal or your credit  card company.  PP is usually fair.  I recently bought a Gold Note PH-10 Phono preamp from Canada via PP.  It arrived broken and I got my money back.  I tried to send it back to him but he was never home and UPS sent it back to me.  That was 3 months ago and I have not heard back from him, LOL.  I am going to have it fixed and give it to my son.  The damn thing was DOA but then came on an played about 2 hours later and then the next time I turned it on it was dead.  Everything lights up and works but no sound.  I am hoping that a solder joint came loose.
I ended up buying another that works.

Sorry for getting off topic.

By the way, I emailed my EE friend about the transformers and I am waiting to hear back. 

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: Looking for Help With Streamer and DAC Upgrades
« Reply #73 on: 18 Apr 2025, 01:28 pm »
o2b, I contacted my EE friend and he said I  can give you his email and cell phone.  Do not call him, text him only.

Hopefully, you got the DAC working.

I will send you a PM so check your messages

Larry

JackD

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Re: Looking for Help With Streamer and DAC Upgrades
« Reply #74 on: 18 Apr 2025, 01:34 pm »
You may have to re-boot the whole chain back to and including the router so that a new IP address is assigned, otherwise your Mac may think the old DAC is still there but turned off. 

o2b

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Re: Looking for Help With Streamer and DAC Upgrades
« Reply #75 on: 18 Apr 2025, 05:20 pm »
Perhaps restart the Mac with the PS Audio DAC connected. And then just check the drop-down menu in the Finder that shows the audio output options. The PS Audio DAC should be listed there. The Mac doesn't need any drivers to connect to a USB DAC (for the 99% of DACs that use the USB audio standard).

The software you are using, Channel D?, is a second level issue. The DAC should be listed as an audio output option in the Finder after restarting the computer, before opening Channel D or other apps.
That should have been obvious! 

Sound Output shows:
PS Audio USB Audio 2.0 Output

Settings for the selected device:
The selected device has no output controls

On the PS Audio display:
USB Input Source
(And there is a green light on the icon, which I take to mean it "knows" it is connected.)
Input: PCM Rate: 48k 24 Bits Phase IN
And set at 87 DB.

If I go into this control panel icon on the PS Audio display:
Yale
Unit ID: 088138
Bootloader: 1.13
Firmware: 1.64
Bridge: 0.0.0
FPGA: 0.91
USB: 00.33
Rev: 0126

Dimmer: High
Level: High

No sound at all.  Actually, I turned the volume all the way up and heard static.  I figure that is via the preamp -> amps -> speakers path.


o2b

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Re: Looking for Help With Streamer and DAC Upgrades
« Reply #76 on: 18 Apr 2025, 05:24 pm »

I am assuming that the DAC turns on.  Power it down, connect to the mac, turn on the DAC, you have to  go into the DAC menu and pick usb as the input.  Also, make sure that the Mac recognises the DAC.  They guy who owned it previously may have been using I2s connection and you have to change it.  Ask the guy what he used for the input.  If you still have issues, contact PS Audio and ask for help.  They are very helpful.

What usb cable are you using? Some cheap ones seem to not work.  But I would talk to PS Audio first.

Hopefully, the guy who sold it was honest.  And hopefully can get your money back through Pay Pal or your credit  card company.  PP is usually fair.  I recently bought a Gold Note PH-10 Phono preamp from Canada via PP.  It arrived broken and I got my money back.  I tried to send it back to him but he was never home and UPS sent it back to me.  That was 3 months ago and I have not heard back from him, LOL.  I am going to have it fixed and give it to my son.  The damn thing was DOA but then came on an played about 2 hours later and then the next time I turned it on it was dead.  Everything lights up and works but no sound.  I am hoping that a solder joint came loose.
I ended up buying another that works.

Sorry for getting off topic.

By the way, I emailed my EE friend about the transformers and I am waiting to hear back.
Just to let you know, I bought it from vendor TMR (The Music Room) through ebay.  It has like a 99.9% aqpproval rating and does seem totally ethical/legit.

JackD

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Re: Looking for Help With Streamer and DAC Upgrades
« Reply #77 on: 18 Apr 2025, 06:00 pm »
Check the volume setting of the DAC in it's menu. This has to been done from the DAC's touchscreen.  Set it to variable then turn the volume up to 92.  Then change it to fixed otherwise if there is a power cycle the volume setting will change. 

newzooreview

Re: Looking for Help With Streamer and DAC Upgrades
« Reply #78 on: 18 Apr 2025, 07:04 pm »
1. Check the drop-down menu for Sound in the menu bar at the top of the screen. At the top of the menu, when opened, it will say "Sound" and show a volume control bar. Below that, it will list all of the "Output" options. The PS Audio should be one of the output options.

2. With the PS Audio selected as output, play a Youtube video or an audio file that's on the computer. All audio will be sent to whatever is selected as output, so this should eliminate the computer as part of the issue.

3. If the PS Audio is selected as output and the sound is not muted in Youtube or on the computer (the volume slider in the Sound menu will confirm this) then the computer is sending sound out to the PS Audio. It's very unlikely to be an issue with computer setup at that point.

4. This would then isolate the issue to the cable or the PS Audio DAC. As a cross-check, you could plug-in a USB dongle DAC to the same port and check that the computer is working normally to send USB audio out to that physical USB port.

The little USB dongle DACs are cheap and useful: https://www.amazon.com/Apple-USB-C-Headphone-Jack-Adapter/dp/B07K25P3N1


o2b

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Re: Looking for Help With Streamer and DAC Upgrades
« Reply #79 on: 18 Apr 2025, 07:29 pm »
Check the volume setting of the DAC in it's menu. This has to been done from the DAC's touchscreen.  Set it to variable then turn the volume up to 92.  Then change it to fixed otherwise if there is a power cycle the volume setting will change.
Thanks.

I do not know how to do this.  The only screen available to me are the input selections.  I see no way to leave input and go elsewhere.