[o2b]

Hi,

I have been planning a stereo upgrade for some time now.  I am an older fellow on a limited budget.  So far, I have saved $2,000 but would be willing to go a bit higher.

My present system:
Two Dynaco M3 tube amps, fully restored.
Melos GK1+1 tube preamp, fully restored
Spatial Audio M3 Hologram Turbo speakers
Apogee Ensemble DAC
Apple Minimac – holds music files and uses Channel D Pure Music and Itunes

I would like to upgrade by replacing the last two items.  I want to get a streamer and DAC and I seek advice on what to get and why.

Regarding the Apogee Ensemble, it’s on the old side.  I got it at the advice of Clayton.  I needed more than two output connections as my speakers were his Emerald Physics CS2’s and they require bi-amping.

Regarding the Apple Minimac – All I know is Channel D is old software.  It is only compatible with a fairly old Mac OS version.  It seems to me it is not used a whole lot anymore?

I realize I am ignorant.  For example, I have no idea how people generally stream, where audio files are typically held, if a computer continues to generally be used.  (If I had to use a computer, I’d opt for Linux myself, supposing I can have the same quality as other options.)

The closest location for testing audio is 6 hours away (Twin Cities).  I live in an extremely rural area of South Dakota.  Meaning: being able to test is not really feasible.

In order to leverage as much as I can, I think I prefer to buy used.

I anticipate this may be my final stereo upgrade, but one never knows!

[Nick B]

Hello,

Nice system. I have used the Holo Red streamer and Holo Cyan2 dac with excellent results and those two should be right at your budget. The only qualifier is that I use good cables, pay close attention to controlling noise by using an UberBUSS and iFi LAN iSilencer and iFi LAN iPurifier and now  JPLAY instead of Roon for streaming.

Let us know what you end up getting,

Nick

[o2b]

Hey, thanks!

[Doublej]

Do you know how many music files do you have? What year is your Mac Mini? Are you currently biamping your speakers?

I have two ideas:

The first is using a new computer or your existing Mac Mini. The computer would store your music files and control playback as it does today. The computer would be connected to a new DAC which would be connected to your Melos preamp or possibly directly to your power amp.

The computer could be Linux though if it is, you have migrate all your music files to the new machine. Migrating music files is not that difficult but migrating the organization of your music (playlist, collections, etc.) might not be easy or even possible.

The other solution uses a WiiM Ultra. You could use the internal DAC in the Ultra or add an external DAC. As desired, you could use the WiiM as the preamplifier eliminating the Melos or you could connect the WiiM (or WiiM with external DAC) to the Melos. Music files would be played using the WiiM.  Your music files can be stored on a USB Stick, or an external hard drive.

FYI, macOS is a proprietary Unix like operating system. As desired, one can use the terminal in macOS to manage things.

[Early B.]

Today's streamer/DAC combos are very good. For $2K, you can get an Eversolo DMP-A8. The Eversolo will probably be a vast sonic improvement over your Apogee DAC, plus you get a lot of other useful features.

[artur9]

The Mercury streamer/DAC is a bargain for < $500, I think.  If the DAC on it doesn't suit then you can purchase a better one and use the Mercury's digital output to it.

I have a HiFi Rose that is very good and a little pricey.  Has a ton of features, most noteworthy is RoseTube,  a curated YouTube channel for music and music videos without commercials.

[newzooreview]

I've very much enjoyed my Eversolo DMP-A8 with my Spatial Audio M3 Sapphires. Although I use Roon and have had my music on a NAS for a long while, the A8 can accommodate a wide range of options, including copying the files to a solid-state hard drive that can be installed on the bottom of it.

The sound is excellent, and adding a filter on the ethernet input improves it further.

[Cloud.sessions]

My advice spend absolutely as much as you can on the Dac. My recommendations are a used Schiit Yggdrasil, ps audio direct stream (the first 2 are American made),  Denafrips Pontus, Holo Audio Cyan or Spring.(these are Chinese made) Then get yourself an under $500 streamer. You’ll maximize your performance that way. A combo unit won’t be on the level as those above DACs. I second Artur9 the Mercury is a great streamer that you can have your music files uploaded on. The bluesound streamers are also simple and easy with good performance. Even the cheaper WIIM products would be good if you wanted to test with internet streaming (Qobuz, tidal) before you fully financially committed.

[ric]

I was in your shoes a number of years ago, kind of daunting to make the right decision!
What type of music do you listen to? Do you prefer a more warmish analog sound or prefer tons of detail? Part of system synergy has to do with luck, getting a sound complimentary to what you already have, but you don't have the luxury to try out multiple units.
On my end, I ended up with a used Border Patrol dac, because I prefer a more analog sound, using that with a used Innuos Zen mini streamer, both around $1000 each used.
    I would suggest buying a used or new Wiim Pro ($149 Amazon) to get your feet wet. It is a streamer and dac. I have one for a second system (or spare) and it works great. It also allows you to add a different dac, bypassing its internal one.  Once you are used to it, figure out what type of sound you want from your dac (detailed, analog?) and move up according to your budget.
Good luck!

[o2b]

Do you know how many music files do you have? What year is your Mac Mini? Are you currently biamping your speakers?

I have two ideas:

The first is using a new computer or your existing Mac Mini. The computer would store your music files and control playback as it does today. The computer would be connected to a new DAC which would be connected to your Melos preamp or possibly directly to your power amp.

The computer could be Linux though if it is, you have migrate all your music files to the new machine. Migrating music files is not that difficult but migrating the organization of your music (playlist, collections, etc.) might not be easy or even possible.

The other solution uses a WiiM Ultra. You could use the internal DAC in the Ultra or add an external DAC. As desired, you could use the WiiM as the preamplifier eliminating the Melos or you could connect the WiiM (or WiiM with external DAC) to the Melos. Music files would be played using the WiiM.  Your music files can be stored on a USB Stick, or an external hard drive.

FYI, macOS is a proprietary Unix like operating system. As desired, one can use the terminal in macOS to manage things.

Thanks, DoubleJ,

I am unsure of the age of my Mac.  No, my speakers cannot be biamped.

I read elsewhere that one definitely wants to include a preamp.

I'll have a look at the Wiim. 

I am very curious.  With the files on a hard drive, what does song selection look like with a Wiim?

[o2b]

Today's streamer/DAC combos are very good. For $2K, you can get an Eversolo DMP-A8. The Eversolo will probably be a vast sonic improvement over your Apogee DAC, plus you get a lot of other useful features.

Thanks, EarlyB and I'll definitely check into the Eversolo!  I take it, it is a streamer/DAC combo?  With this unit, what are the options for where the song files reside and what does song selection look like?

Is it like they would sit on a hard drive and selection is according to a directory tree?  Like, can one have the songs of a particular album or of a playlist in a folder and the Wiim can be told to play the songs in any specified folder?

[o2b]

I have a commitment in just a few, but I will get back to all replies.

I am so glad I opened this thread.  This kind of information is exactly what I was hoping to see!

[I.Greyhound Fan]

For a DAC only, I would go used and buy a PS Audio Direct Stream DAC.  It was a $6000 dac that you can find used for $1600.  It has multiple software packages available and they are easy to install.  The DAC has such great detail and micro detail.  It has great air and transparency with excellent spacing between instruments when the music becomes congested.  With the last 2 software packages it is so smooth yet detailed.  There is no fatigue or grain. 

A friend of mine is downsizing and selling his.  My son is auditioning it now and is considering buying it.  He has a Chord Qutest but the DSD DAC is much better.  I love it an if he does not buy it I might.  I own a Luxman DA-06 DAC that cost over $5000 new and I love the dac but the DSD DAC is better.  I had a chance to buy one when they came out but I could not hear one so I went with the Luxman that I was able to audition in my system.

You won't find another DAC at your price point that is this good.  This DAC is so good that it is a DAC that you could keep for a lifetime.  Of course there are better sound DAC's that cost way more.  My current favorite DAC is the Aqua La Scala MKII.  It is the most analog sounding DAC that I have heard.

For a streamer, I would look at a Lumin. 

Good luck in your search.

[Early B.]

Thanks, EarlyB and I'll definitely check into the Eversolo!  I take it, it is a streamer/DAC combo?  With this unit, what are the options for where the song files reside and what does song selection look like?

Is it like they would sit on a hard drive and selection is according to a directory tree?  Like, can one have the songs of a particular album or of a playlist in a folder and the Wiim can be told to play the songs in any specified folder?

Yeah, the Eversolo is a streamer/DAC/preamp combo. You can stream your music files from a computer and/or a streaming service, place your music files onto a hard drive attached to the Eversolo, or use a thumb drive/external hard drive via USB. The Eversolo comes with an app that catalogs and plays your music, you can create playlists, etc.

https://www.eversolo.com/Product/index/model/DMP-A8/target/uXoirEESmeVKKmVViAFMcQ%3D%3D.html

You won't find better performance for the price. Check out the YouTube reviews.

[newzooreview]

You can also set the A8 to fixed, line-level output to your existing preamp, making it a streamer/DAC.

[o2b]

The Mercury streamer/DAC is a bargain for < $500, I think.  If the DAC on it doesn't suit then you can purchase a better one and use the Mercury's digital output to it.

I have a HiFi Rose that is very good and a little pricey.  Has a ton of features, most noteworthy is RoseTube,  a curated YouTube channel for music and music videos without commercials.

Thanks, artur9, and I'll add those recommendations to my list.

[o2b]

I've very much enjoyed my Eversolo DMP-A8 with my Spatial Audio M3 Sapphires. Although I use Roon and have had my music on a NAS for a long while, the A8 can accommodate a wide range of options, including copying the files to a solid-state hard drive that can be installed on the bottom of it.

The sound is excellent, and adding a filter on the ethernet input improves it further.

Thanks, newzooreview,

I take it the Eversolo is totally sufficient for the streaming portion as well?

[o2b]

My advice spend absolutely as much as you can on the Dac. My recommendations are a used Schiit Yggdrasil, ps audio direct stream (the first 2 are American made),  Denafrips Pontus, Holo Audio Cyan or Spring.(these are Chinese made) Then get yourself an under $500 streamer. You’ll maximize your performance that way. A combo unit won’t be on the level as those above DACs. I second Artur9 the Mercury is a great streamer that you can have your music files uploaded on. The bluesound streamers are also simple and easy with good performance. Even the cheaper WIIM products would be good if you wanted to test with internet streaming (Qobuz, tidal) before you fully financially committed.

Thanks Cloud.sessions and I hear ya on maximizing my budget toward the DAC.  Totally agree.

I just saw a PS Audio for ~1600 on ebay.  I see the unit came out in 2015 and I take it little concern about age?

[o2b]

I was in your shoes a number of years ago, kind of daunting to make the right decision!
What type of music do you listen to? Do you prefer a more warmish analog sound or prefer tons of detail? Part of system synergy has to do with luck, getting a sound complimentary to what you already have, but you don't have the luxury to try out multiple units.
On my end, I ended up with a used Border Patrol dac, because I prefer a more analog sound, using that with a used Innuos Zen mini streamer, both around $1000 each used.
    I would suggest buying a used or new Wiim Pro ($149 Amazon) to get your feet wet. It is a streamer and dac. I have one for a second system (or spare) and it works great. It also allows you to add a different dac, bypassing its internal one.  Once you are used to it, figure out what type of sound you want from your dac (detailed, analog?) and move up according to your budget.
Good luck!

Man, Ric, that Border Patrol looks sweet!  I am definitely considering that, tho seeing the PS Audio that went for 6k, at 1600.  Man.

I lean toward the warm sound and I think that complements my tube gear.  As to music, I guess I'll list a few songs I really like, for some sense.

Grisman/Garcia Pizza Tapes - Knocking On Heaven's Door
Grover Washington Jr. - Aubrey
Cat Stevens - most anything off Tea for the Tillerman, Teaser and the Firecat
Julee Cruise - Falling (incredible vocals)
Grateful Dead - too many to mention!  Scarlet -> Fire, Eyes of the World, just a lot, realizing not the best quality.  My favorite band, all in all.
Kenny Burrell - Midnight Blue
Fleetwood Mac - Landslide (strings are incredible, with a good sonic envelope)
Bob Marley - Legend, such as Exodus
Vince Guaraldi Trio - My Little Drum (very possibly my favorite song)
Nick Drake - Northern Sky

I suppose at a high level, a former rocker whose preferences have softened and widened.

Of course, I am always up for suggestions!

By the way, I loved Supertramp Crime of the Century but somehow it sounds like crap on my stereo

[newzooreview]

Thanks, newzooreview,

I take it the Eversolo is totally sufficient for the streaming portion as well?

If I were only interested in a streamer I think the Holo Audio Red would be more cost effective. https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/holoaudio-red-ddc-network-streamer/

You could connect the Holo Cyan 2 DAC to the Red via I2S over HDMI. This would be about the same price as the A8. If you are using Roon and already have a preamp that you like, then it's probably a better choice. I used to own the Holo May KTE DAC, and I expect the Cyan 2 would be comparable to the A8 or even a bit better, although I haven't compared them directly. The Red/Cyan 2 combination would not have a preamp or the broadly flexible Eversolo software, but you can easily update the DAC later on.