New Record Day Loudspeakers

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JWSoGen

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New Record Day Loudspeakers
« on: 22 Jan 2025, 08:16 pm »
Hi, everyone,

Ron's speakers are here! Check it out - The New Record Day Loudspeakers! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5-IaZs-D8Y

Can't wait to see the finished products!

Early B.

Re: New Record Day Loudspeakers
« Reply #1 on: 22 Jan 2025, 09:59 pm »
I'm interested in version #3.

corndog71

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Re: New Record Day Loudspeakers
« Reply #2 on: 22 Jan 2025, 10:17 pm »
I’ll be more interested when they’re actually available.

mkrawcz

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Re: New Record Day Loudspeakers
« Reply #3 on: 22 Jan 2025, 10:40 pm »
Model 3 please. Git-R-Done

jmimac351

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Re: New Record Day Loudspeakers
« Reply #4 on: 22 Jan 2025, 11:13 pm »
Danny has box speaker envy.  He's checkin' out that "Sonus faber" look...  :popcorn:

I - like  - box  - speakers and I cannot lie!  :green:  Everybody wants open baffle until a box speaker punches 'em in the mouth.  :green:

I wonder why the LGK center is not spaced closer to the M130 woofer?  Maybe because the wall for its own airspace?  Or I wondered if it has to do with the length of the wavelengths the LGK is playing compared to the M130... if that made the measurements different.

I am "waiting" for "the model with the 8" NQ woofer"... oh wait. Danny!!!  I found a use for the 8" NQ woofer besides paying rent on a shelf!!! (No High Pass filters...)

Danny Richie

Re: New Record Day Loudspeakers
« Reply #5 on: 22 Jan 2025, 11:27 pm »
Quote
I wonder why the LGK center is not spaced closer to the M130 woofer?  Maybe because the wall for its own airspace?  Or I wondered if it has to do with the length of the wavelengths the LGK is playing compared to the M130... if that made the measurements different.

There is a divider between them to separate the air spaces. They also cross at 250Hz where the wavelengths are about four and a half feet long. So the space between them is a non-issue.

BrandonB

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Re: New Record Day Loudspeakers
« Reply #6 on: 23 Jan 2025, 03:37 am »
Danny you talked about three speaker models  coming out in this new series.  Where will they land.  How will they compare to the NX-series?  How does this tweeter compare to the Neo 3 tweeter?

Danny Richie

Re: New Record Day Loudspeakers
« Reply #7 on: 23 Jan 2025, 10:52 pm »
Danny you talked about three speaker models  coming out in this new series.  Where will they land.  How will they compare to the NX-series?  How does this tweeter compare to the Neo 3 tweeter?

That is a lot to compare. Ron and I may pull off another live feed tomorrow night and answer those questions.

The first model is looking like it will land in the $3,400 to $3,500 range.

There is no tweeter. The LGK (wide band driver) plays up to 20kHz. It doesn't have the fine detail levels of the Neo tweeter, but it also has no real phase shifts from a 1,800Hz crossover either. So pros and cons. I'd compare the detail levels to that of a good dome tweeter.

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: New Record Day Loudspeakers
« Reply #8 on: 24 Jan 2025, 03:19 am »
Danny when you have the floorstanders available, I would like to fly down to Texas audition them and buy a pair if I like them.  My wife is tired of having doors as speakers.  I have had the Magnepan 1.6's for many years.

jmimac351

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Re: New Record Day Loudspeakers
« Reply #9 on: 24 Jan 2025, 04:48 pm »
I'd compare the detail levels to that of a good dome tweeter.

That comment is a pleasant surprise.  When people read "less detail", if it's not put into context then they will define how much less... maybe a lot less than reality.  When there is a lack of info or if something is left for interpretation, sometimes negative info fills the void. 

If the detail can be compared to the Encore / T26 tweeter, perhaps that would help some. 

What I suspect is... this is one of those things where you're just gonna have to hear it to "get it".

seikosha

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Re: New Record Day Loudspeakers
« Reply #10 on: 24 Jan 2025, 05:29 pm »
I’m a big fan of using a widebander over most of the frequency range vs. a more traditional model with a dedicated tweeter.  Absolutely, you will lose that extra shimmer or sparkle that a good tweeter will provide, but for me, the midrange coherency you get with a speaker like this far outweighs the strengths that a more conventional arrangement provides.  Looking forward to hearing more about this model.

Early B.

Re: New Record Day Loudspeakers
« Reply #11 on: 27 Jan 2025, 06:10 pm »
The first model is looking like it will land in the $3,400 to $3,500 range.

OK, I'll be the one to say it...

Like any other company, the growth of GR Research depends on offering new products and services. Often, such growth comes with increased pricing for a million different reasons, mostly beyond your control. GR Research has flourished because it is one of the few companies renowned for its exceptional kits, but these speakers will only be available in finished form. Are there plans to create a similar model as a kit? Or maybe the finished speakers have real wood panels and a "deluxe" crossover, and the kit is only available with a standard crossover and binding posts, and MDF flat pack?? Frankly, I'm very interested in these speakers, but I'd have to wait a few years for them to hit the used market before they become "affordable," and I'm probably not alone. With this post, I'm merely fishing for options that may appeal to a broader consumer base.
 

PumaCat

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Re: New Record Day Loudspeakers
« Reply #12 on: 27 Jan 2025, 06:35 pm »
A question I have is: In contrast to the X-LS Encores, where the vertical axes of the high-frequency and low frequency drivers are placed on the same vertical axis, why is the LGK upper-frequency driver positioned "off-center" relative to the vertical axis of the woofer?

In the speaker shown in the video, LGK the driver is positioned near the right side of the cabinet. Is it positioned near the left side of the cabinet for the L channel speaker?  Just curious.

Thanks, Danny, and cheers.

PumaCat

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Re: New Record Day Loudspeakers
« Reply #13 on: 27 Jan 2025, 06:43 pm »
OK, I'll be the one to say it...

Like any other company, the growth of GR Research depends on offering new products and services. Often, such growth comes with increased pricing for a million different reasons, mostly beyond your control. GR Research has flourished because it is one of the few companies renowned for its exceptional kits, but these speakers will only be available in finished form.

If I were to hypothesize, I'd say these speakers and future ones in development, are designed, branded and sold as "New Record Day" loudspeakers and as such, will only be available as "finished goods". GR-Research is the OEM designer and manufacturer for the new NRD line of finished goods loudspeakers.  This will be a branding and marketing distinction between "NRD" loudspeakers and GR-Research loudspeakers.

Each company is addressing a different customer segment with each of their respective product portfolios: NRD will address customers who want to buy superbly-designed and engineered "finished goods" loudspeakers, and GR-Research will continue to develop and extend its superb brand of loudspeakers for the DIY/home builder/hobbyist market.

Peter J

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Re: New Record Day Loudspeakers
« Reply #14 on: 27 Jan 2025, 06:48 pm »
OK, I'll be the one to say it...

Like any other company, the growth of GR Research depends on offering new products and services. Often, such growth comes with increased pricing for a million different reasons, mostly beyond your control. GR Research has flourished because it is one of the few companies renowned for its exceptional kits, but these speakers will only be available in finished form. Are there plans to create a similar model as a kit? Or maybe the finished speakers have real wood panels and a "deluxe" crossover, and the kit is only available with a standard crossover and binding posts, and MDF flat pack?? Frankly, I'm very interested in these speakers, but I'd have to wait a few years for them to hit the used market before they become "affordable," and I'm probably not alone. With this post, I'm merely fishing for options that may appeal to a broader consumer base.
 

I would argue that the market for DIY is much smaller than that for plug and play. For evidence of this just look at the number of players in either segment of the market. I think the real challenge for GRR is marketing a finished product after successfully advocating DIY for all these years. Were it me, and my intentions were to expand market share, I'd look at launching a different brand or company altogether and not market it alongside the DIY products. They dilute each other.  As an example, think Toyota and Lexus.
The sad part is that the whole audio market is changing, and the "audio systems" of the past are no longer aspired to in the way they were 10 or 20 years ago. It seems to me that the market has become niches within a shrinking whole.

I.Greyhound Fan

Re: New Record Day Loudspeakers
« Reply #15 on: 27 Jan 2025, 06:50 pm »
A question I have is: In contrast to the X-LS Encores, where the vertical axes of the high-frequency and low frequency drivers are placed on the same vertical axis, why is the LGK upper-frequency driver positioned "off-center" relative to the vertical axis of the woofer?

In the speaker shown in the video, LGK the driver is positioned near the right side of the cabinet. Is it positioned near the left side of the cabinet for the L channel speaker?  Just curious.

Thanks, Danny, and cheers.

If you watch his video's he explains why.  It has to do with reflections off the front baffle.  Other companies have done the same.

PumaCat

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Re: New Record Day Loudspeakers
« Reply #16 on: 27 Jan 2025, 06:52 pm »
If you watch his video's he explains why.  It has to do with reflections off the front baffle.  Other companies have done the same.

I watched the video again, and noted that Danny discussed this point towards the end of the video and I didn't catch it the first time. Thanks and cheers for the info.
« Last Edit: 27 Jan 2025, 08:22 pm by Stephen Scharf »

BrandonB

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Re: New Record Day Loudspeakers
« Reply #17 on: 27 Jan 2025, 09:12 pm »
I would argue that the market for DIY is much smaller than that for plug and play. For evidence of this just look at the number of players in either segment of the market. I think the real challenge for GRR is marketing a finished product after successfully advocating DIY for all these years. Were it me, and my intentions were to expand market share, I'd look at launching a different brand or company altogether and not market it alongside the DIY products. They dilute each other.  As an example, think Toyota and Lexus.
The sad part is that the whole audio market is changing, and the "audio systems" of the past are no longer aspired to in the way they were 10 or 20 years ago. It seems to me that the market has become niches within a shrinking whole.
I think that he gets asked quite a bit to build out his own kits.  That is why they started selling kits already put together.  There are also a few people on this forum that builds out kits and hot rods them for a price.  His marketing is now YouTube.   You also don't have to sell a bunch of speakers because all the parts are associated with other kits and you can build them as they come in. 

Peter J

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Re: New Record Day Loudspeakers
« Reply #18 on: 27 Jan 2025, 10:01 pm »
I think that he gets asked quite a bit to build out his own kits.  That is why they started selling kits already put together.  There are also a few people on this forum that builds out kits and hot rods them for a price.  His marketing is now YouTube.   You also don't have to sell a bunch of speakers because all the parts are associated with other kits and you can build them as they come in.

The economies of DIY evaporate when you hire the various processes out. Building speakers one at a time is never going to be competitive when compared to mass production. I could be one of those build-out guys, but when looked at through the lens of a sustainable, scalable business model it doesn't make sense to me. Cottage manufacturing is a tough go right now when you consider that it's a jump to light speed just to hire a single employee and provide a reasonable benefit package. One has to double or triple sales to come out ahead fiscally when doing such. There is a segment of small industry that's earned the moniker "no-man's land". It refers to small businesses that are attempting to scale but find their profitability actually shrinks as their revenue grows. It's why we see fewer and fewer Mom & Pop businesses able to survive in the lands of giants.

Don't get me wrong, Danny has created a unique cottage industry and survives where many have not, but he has business challenges that are ever increasing while the industry as a whole shrinks.

Hobbsmeerkat

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Re: New Record Day Loudspeakers
« Reply #19 on: 27 Jan 2025, 11:32 pm »
OK, I'll be the one to say it...

Like any other company, the growth of GR Research depends on offering new products and services. Often, such growth comes with increased pricing for a million different reasons, mostly beyond your control. GR Research has flourished because it is one of the few companies renowned for its exceptional kits, but these speakers will only be available in finished form. Are there plans to create a similar model as a kit? Or maybe the finished speakers have real wood panels and a "deluxe" crossover, and the kit is only available with a standard crossover and binding posts, and MDF flat pack?? Frankly, I'm very interested in these speakers, but I'd have to wait a few years for them to hit the used market before they become "affordable," and I'm probably not alone. With this post, I'm merely fishing for options that may appeal to a broader consumer base.
 

Once the NRD models have run their course, we may offer them, or similar models, as DIY kits. (Likely with a simplified cabinet and at least one special tech feature left out) But we'll cross that road when we get there.

A question I have is: In contrast to the X-LS Encores, where the vertical axes of the high-frequency and low frequency drivers are placed on the same vertical axis, why is the LGK upper-frequency driver positioned "off-center" relative to the vertical axis of the woofer?

In the speaker shown in the video, LGK the driver is positioned near the right side of the cabinet. Is it positioned near the left side of the cabinet for the L channel speaker?  Just curious.

Thanks, Danny, and cheers.

As was stated it was to improve the response of the driver. we had the very first test cabinet made with a removable front baffle and 5-6 different baffles, starting with the LGK in the middle, then shifted over 1/4" each time. The farthest offset measured best.
We then took that far offset baffle and started shaving off the top of that baffle in ~1/8" increments, pushing the driver up towards the top of the cabinet, and we kept getting a smoother response as it moved up. So the best response came from having the LGK shoved into the farthest possible corner.
The speakers are mirrored pairs.
The rear driver remained centered, as it's mainly playing within it's beaming frequencies, using the rear wall to delay & scatter the sound, without affecting the on-axis response.

I would argue that the market for DIY is much smaller than that for plug and play. For evidence of this just look at the number of players in either segment of the market. I think the real challenge for GRR is marketing a finished product after successfully advocating DIY for all these years. Were it me, and my intentions were to expand market share, I'd look at launching a different brand or company altogether and not market it alongside the DIY products. They dilute each other.  As an example, think Toyota and Lexus.
The sad part is that the whole audio market is changing, and the "audio systems" of the past are no longer aspired to in the way they were 10 or 20 years ago. It seems to me that the market has become niches within a shrinking whole.

Very much so, but it's not just audio, many recreational and luxury industries have been shrinking in a similar fashion. Reality is that many in the younger generations simply don't have as much disposable income as it seems previous generations did, so a lot of hobbies and many recreational activities are shrinking in one form or another.
Thankfully, YouTube has allowed us to reach the younger generations to some extent, certainly in ways that audio shows and legacy media formats simply never will.
Of course, the big caveat is, it's hard to really get a sense of the performance beyond measurements, but it's tough to make quality sound clips when we're not doing the installation, and even when we have. There's still a lot of the perfomance that gets lost compared to listening in person.