[kendrid]

I am one of the lucky few that has been able to try the XL in my home for a few days.  Attached are a few photos that I took.

First a little background about me.  I have owned the Sapphire III, Sapphire 25th anniversary and I now own piano black Onix Reference ones.  I've been somewhat of an online speaker connoisseur for about 6 years now.





Here is the 'complex' corner.  The photo is blurry but you can see the quality of the finish.



I'm sure you are thinking 'great - they look good.  How do they sound?!?"  

To be continued (tomorrow)...        I can say that if you are on the preorder list the day these arrive at your home will be a good day.

[thugh]

Kendrid,

Nice pics!

Look forward to your comments!

[Groch]

Kendrid- great photos, I take a lot of eBay shots and know how difficult it is to photo somthing as reflective as these are.

Can you comment on the finish quality of the two. In the center photo it looks like the Sapphire is perfectly smooth while the Ref 1 has a bit of lemon peeling - but it could just be the photos.

We are all anxious for your performance comparison comments as well.

[kendrid]

Kendrid- great photos, I take a lot of eBay shots and know how difficult it is to photo somthing as reflective as these are.

Can you comment on the finish quality of the two. In the center photo it looks like the Sapphire is perfectly smooth while the Ref 1 has a bit of lemon peeling - but it could just be the photos.

We are all anxious for your performance comparison comments as well.

The XL's finish is smoother than the Ref 1.  I'm not familiar with 'lemon peeling' but the Ref 1s finish is like looking into water with ripples in it.  The XLs are mirror like.

[kendrid]

Part I:  The XLs by themselves.
My first thought after listening to a few tracks on the XL was how smooth throughout the frequency range they sound.  The midrange is very smooth with both male and female vocals, and the upper-midrange and treble is detailed without being bright/harsh.  From the top to the bottom the sound was very detailed, accurate and pleasing.  I have yet to hear a track where I thought the speaker did something terribly wrong.  One thing I have noticed on a few tracks is that *some* male vocals are *slightly* recessed.  I have to some experimenting with those tracks to see if it was 'me', my room or the speakers.  It isn't so obvious that it makes the speaker sound bad, but it was different than I am used to.  

The imaging these speakers produce is very accurate.  Each instrument is easy to place and is well defined, which is impressive with their wide soundstage.  There is no smearing together of the different musicians playing unless it is a bad recording.

What I was very happy with was that they were able to play rock/metal music well along with playing acoustic/jazz tunes.  Since they sound so smooth throughout the audio spectrum they do well with all types of music.  In the past I have encountered speakers that do well with CD A but not CD B.  So far the XLs are doing great with anything I throw at them, except for very poorly recorded material which should sound bad on an 'audiophile' speaker.  I save those CDs for my car.  

The finish on the XLs is amazing.  The piano black is so dark, deep and smooth that when looking directly into them it is like looking into a mirror.  The rounded corners look great and add a little something 'extra' to the standard black-box speaker.

Part II:  XL vs Onix Reference One
First, for the price both speakers are amazing, period.  You can't go wrong with either, as they both sound much better than anything else I have heard for $1500 in a B&M shop (and I've heard a lot).  
The first and most obvious difference is that the Ref 1 has quite a bit more detail.  Is this a good thing or a bad thing?  That is up to you to decide.  Since the first day I heard the Refs 1s I thought that they could sound slightly bright at high volumes (this was with Jackman's incredible front-end).  In my own system I have experienced the same thing with certain recordings at higher volume levels.  I have yet to experience that with the XLs.
On the flip side, at night when listening to music when my wife/son is sleeping I have to keep the volume low (65dB-70dB).  In this situation the extra detail of the Ref 1s is nice to have.  The XLs still bring out the detail at the lower volume levels, but not to the extent of the Refs.  It is the one place where the two speakers stand apart from each other in an obvious way.

I really want to compare the two side-by-side again before commenting on the soundstage/imaging of both speakers.  I will be doing another comparison either tonight or sometime this weekend.

Regarding the XL vs the Sapphire III  vs 25th anniversary edition (25s), the XL is quite a bit better than both.  The 25s surpassed the III and the XL surpasses the 25.  I don't have a pair of 25s to compare them against, but I think it is safe to say the upgrade would be worth it to most people that own the 25s.  I don't think the differences between the speakers are subtle.

Until my next comparison of the Ref vs XL, here is the equipment I used, along with some of the albums I used.

Equipment:
Onix SP3 integrated tube amp with a SCD-C222ES CD/SACD player
Sony STR-DA3000ES digital receiver (it doesn't suck compared to other AVRs in the same price range - really ).  When using the digital receiver I use the toslink input.
Onix SP-200 speaker cable
Canare interconnects

Some of the artists and albums used:
10,000 Maniacs - Our Time in Eden, Unplugged; Aimee Mann - Bachelor No. 2; Alison Krauss - Forget About It; Anthrax - We've Come for you All; Beck - Sea Change; Cowboy Junkies - Trinity Session; DMB - Crash; Depeche Mode - Violator; Disturbed - Believe; Eagles - Greatest hits; Everything but the Girl - Acoustic; Fiona Apple - When the pawn...; Fleetwood Mac - Greatest Hits; Godsmack - Godsmack, Other Side; Gov't Mule - Dose, Live with a little help from our friends; Indigo Girls - Nomads, Indians, Saints; Jane Monheit - Come Dream with Me; Led Zepplin - Remasters; Live - Birds of Prey, Mental Jewelry;
Meat Loaf - Bat out of Hell; Norah Jones - Feels Like Home; Patricia Barber - Modern Cool, Nightclub; Pearl Jam - Ten, Vs.; Porcupine Tree - DeadWing, In Absentia, Lightbulb Sun, Stupid Dream (going to see these guys next week); R.E.M. - Out of Time, Automatic, Murmer; Stevie Nicks, Enchanted- The Works of Stevie Nicks; STP - Core; Tool - Undertow, Aenima;

[jackman]

Hey!  Good to hear from you again.  Very nice looking speakers.  It would be difficult to choose between the two.  They are both excellent values with some very impressive strengths.  I heard both at a gathering a couple months ago thought they sounded as good as they looked.  

Hope to see you one of these days.  I'm going to host a get-together in June to show off my new system and have people bring speakers to compare.  It's really an excuse to get together with my fellow audiogeek friends (spoken as an admitted but proud audiogeek!), drink beer, eat pizza and listen to music.  I'll make sure you get an invite and hope you can bring your beautiful speakers.  I'm going to Switzerland in late June and my wife is due with our first baby on July 10th.  My loud music days are coming to an end and I'm trying to go out (at least temporarily) with a bang!

Take care!

Jack

[kendrid]

Hey Jack!

They aren't mine, they are the pair you heard at the gathering you were at.  

Aren't you running a system with digital xovers now?  Care to fill me in on it? (kevitra@gmail.com)  It would be cool to catch up.

I met a guy a month ago that knows you from an audio GTG.  I was selling one of my two pair of Ref 1s and he was interested so I stopped by his house in Elgin.  He has Splendor and Monitor Audio speakers, an Adcom preamp (passive/active), and a Bryston amp.  

Congrats on the baby!  My son turns 2 this weekend.  You will soon learn to appreciate the times you have at home when you can crank it up as loud as you want.  Hopefully your current system does well at low volume levels.  

[jackman]

Hey Jack!

They aren't mine, they are the pair you heard at the gathering you were at.  

Aren't you running a system with digital xovers now?  Care to fill me in on it? (kevitra@gmail.com)  It would be cool to catch up.

I met a guy a month ago that knows you from an audio GTG.  I was selling one of my two pair of Ref 1s and he was interested so I stopped by his house in Elgin.  He has Splendor and Monitor Audio speakers, an Adcom preamp (passive/active), and a Bryston amp.  

Congrats on the baby! ...

Elgin?  Must have been Ron McCoy.  Great guy who is a very serious and dedicated audiophile.  He's owned more stuff than anyone I have ever met.  From Naim, Linn, Proac, GR Research, Neat, Monitor Audio, you name it.  Whever I feel guilty or strange for making big changes in my setup, I am reminded of guys like Ron and I don't feel so bad.  He's one of the coolest people I have met in this hobby.

I don't want to say too much about my setup because this is the ACI circle.  Mike at ACI is a total class act and I have a ton of respect for his great products and the way he runs his company.  The only bad thing I can say about him is I suspect he's a Packer fan because he's from Cheeseland!  

My system is a Series 2MTM with subwoofer stands from BESL (bamberglab.com).  It sounds better than I could have imagined.  I have a 4 channel amp from Coda and an Aragon 4004 running my subwoofers and Aragon 24K preamp(with external IPS power supply and Penny and Giles pot).  The Aragon amp runs hotter than a toaster but sounds good.  The inexpensive Behringer DCX2496 handles xover duties and the CDP is the same old Modwright/Response Audio RAM tubed player that I've had for over a year.  The Behringer also sounds pretty darn good as a DAC.  Even better than I expected, and very close to the extensively modded CDP (which is totall tricked out with an LC03 clock, no op-amps, etc.).  I'll do a comparison between the DCX and the tubed section of my CDP when everyone comes over if anyone's interested.  

Take care and thanks for the kind words.  I'll be asking the people on this board for diaper changing tips soon!

J

[Mikeyb]

Hey Kendrid,

Nice write up on the XLs.  I own 25th Anniversary Sapphires, and I have heard the XLs at CES (briefly), and I have also spent considerable time with the Onix Ref 1s.  Unlike you and many others, I have great difficulty in identifying differences in the speakers.  I like all three and have found them FAR more alike than different - so much so, I can't decide which I like better.

This question applies to anyone:  Do you have an example of a specific piece of music where you find it very easy, if not completely obvious, to hear and describe differences between two similar speakers (size and price)?  People use Norah Jones' CDs quite a lot in evaluating speakers, so because I am familiar with some of her stuff as well, can anyone offer a specific example using one of her songs?

My pursuit to become critical may be a curse!

[rosconey]

quote jackman- I'll be asking the people on this board for diaper changing tips soon!


sorry to hear about your loss of bladder control        
is it so bad i should invest in Depends stock

[kendrid]

I own 25th Anniversary Sapphires, and I have heard the XLs at CES (briefly), and I have also spent considerable time with the Onix Ref 1s.  Unlike you and many others, I have great difficulty in identifying differences in the speakers.  I like all three and have found them FAR more alike than different - so much so, I can't decide which I like better.

They are all similar, but if you can A/B compare them with a switch box the difference start to stand out more.

At this level of speaker the differences are usually minimal.  For myself this price range is my limit on speakers.  I can't see spending an additional $1000 for a 5% performance increase.

The treble energy is definitely different between the XL and Ref 1.  On some Stevie Nicks tracks I want to plug my ears with the ref 1s because she is too harsh.  On the XLs the harshness is gone.  Is that worth upgrading over?  That is a tough one.

[hectic1]

Hey Kendrid,

Nice write up on the XLs.  I own 25th Anniversary Sapphires, and I have heard the XLs at CES (briefly), and I have also spent considerable time with the Onix Ref 1s.  Unlike you and many others, I have great difficulty in identifying differences in the speakers.  I like all three and have found them FAR more alike than different - so much so, I can't decide which I like better.

This question applies to anyone:  Do you have an example of a specific piece of music where you find it very eas ...

Hey Mike...I have spent a good amount of time with both speakers and while they have some similarities...they are more different then alike. The Ref 1's are more forward with their presentation with a "harder" edge to them. They have pin point imaging but don't throw as wide of a sound stage as the XL's. The XL's had a tad more padding on the top end but made up for it with their articulate mid bass and liquid smooth upper mids. I owe a review on the XL's so I don't want to say too much here now. I will say that Mike D has put together a very nice speaker...one that anyone would be proud to own...myself included!

[Carlman]

They are all similar, but if you can A/B compare them with a switch box the difference start to stand out more.

At this level of speaker the differences are usually minimal.  For myself this price range is my limit on speakers.  I can't see spending an additional $1000 for a 5% performance increase.

The treble energy is definitely different between the XL and Ref 1.  On some Stevie Nicks tracks I want to plug my ears with the ref 1s because she is too harsh.  On the XLs the harshness is gone.  Is that worth upgrading over?  That is a tough one.

I have not heard the Sapphire but I have heard the Onix Ref 1.  The highs were so over accentuated I couldn't live with this speaker.  There were some things it did well and is a respectable speaker but definitely not for me.  The speakers I'm using now (modified Usher 718's) have a similar over-accentuated high and bass thing happening... However, in its implementation, it's entertaining instead of annoying to me.

I've heard speakers that didn't choose this route, such a Merlin monitor I heard at a fellow AC'ers house.. (Claud)  They have a true-to-life sound that I really enjoyed.  However, the sound couldn't be more different than the Usher's we compared.

So, saying that "At this level of speaker the differences are usually minimal."  just isn't true in my experience.  The differences are wide enough that I couldn't bare to listen to 1, enjoyed another with its inflated bass and treble, and enjoyed another with what sounded like a flat response.  All of these speakers were in the 1-4,k range.

For another 1,k you (ideally) get less sonic compromises within a speaker line.  Putting a percentage on it is impossible.  What 'gets it' for me may cost an additional 10,k or possibly cost less than what I'm using.  (It has happened to a few people with digital receivers around here.)

If something 'gets it' for me, it's going to be so much better that I'll find a way to afford it.

I know a lot of people like the Ref 1's but I'm really hoping the Sapphire's handle the highs differently.  Maybe I had an especially peaky set of Ref1's... who knows...  They were pretty to look at, though.  One day I will hear the XL's... but my comparison will be to my current Usher's.

-C

[jcoat007]

Hey Mike...I have spent a good amount of time with both speakers and while they have some similarities...they are more different then alike. The Ref 1's are more forward with their presentation with a "harder" edge to them. They have pin point imaging but don't throw as wide of a sound stage as the XL's. The XL's had a tad more padding on the top end but made up for it with their articulate mid bass and liquid smooth upper mids. I owe a review on the XL's so I don't want to say too much here now. I will say ...

I, for one, am looking forward to your review.  I am seriously looking at these mated to a pair of Titan subs, to replace my Vandersteen 3A Sigs and dual Vandy subs.  

Steve

[Mad DOg]

I, for one, am looking forward to your review.  I am seriously looking at these mated to a pair of Titan subs, to replace my Vandersteen 3A Sigs and dual Vandy subs.  

Steve

steve,

why are you looking to replace your vandy 3a sigs? it's a great sounding speaker. time and phase correct...

ACI makes fabulous speakers as well.

[jcoat007]

I, for one, am looking forward to your review.  I am seriously looking at these mated to a pair of Titan subs, to replace my Vandersteen 3A Sigs and dual Vandy subs.  

Steve

steve,

why are you looking to replace your vandy 3a sigs? it's a great sounding speaker. time and phase correct...

ACI makes fabulous speakers as well.

I was just telling someone that as I improve the components in my system, the Vandy's seem to keep pace.  In other words they get better as my system components get better.  In fact, my system has never sounded better than it does right now.  

The Vandy's were the first serious speaker I bought when I got into this audio craziness about four years ago.  So it is kind of like marrying someone, but never having dated anyone else.  Now I am curious about what else is out there.  

Of course there is also a certain madness in this hobby, and I just have a mad itch to try something else.  Like a seven year itch, but it happened to me at four.  

The ACI's have been written up with considerable praise and I am interested in trying them.  There is a 30 day "no hassle" return policy, so I can try them with no risk.

[WEEZ]

From the descriptions written here, it sounds like the Sapphires are a more neutral speaker than the Ref.1's. If that is the case, then they would probably be more satisfying long term.

Speakers with too much treble energy can become tiresome.

From Kendrid's remarks; and from the 6moons review; it sounds like the XL Sapphire is a winner.

Hey Carlman- If you get to hear the XL's- what's the chance of a comparison with Claud's Merlins? THAT would be telling.

WEEZ

[kendrid]

From the descriptions written here, it sounds like the Sapphires are a more neutral speaker than the Ref.1's. If that is the case, then they would probably be more satisfying long term.

Speakers with too much treble energy can become tiresome.

From Kendrid's remarks; and from the 6moons review; it sounds like the XL Sapphire is a winner.

I would say your statements are very true.  The XL seems to be much more neutral speaker than the Ref 1s.  I sometimes miss the 'extra' detail of the Ref 1s, but on the flip side that 'extra' detail can also be very annoying.

[Eric]

That is a characteristic of all the ACI speakers I have heard, neutrality

[Carlman]

Hey Carlman- If you get to hear the XL's- what's the chance of a comparison with Claud's Merlins? THAT would be telling.
WEEZ

I don't see why not.... Claud would probably enjoy it.... It'll likely be a while, I'm way down on the list of auditions...

-C