[AllanS]

I’m working on updating/upgrading the digital front end starting with the streamer if what I’m considering would be an improvement. Otherwise I’ll start with the DAC.

I currently have a BlueSound Vault 2i.  Any thoughts on if the Innuous PULSEmini would be an improvement over the Vault or any BlueSound streamer or more of a lateral move?

Others that might be considered are the Eversolo DMP A8 and perhaps the new BS Icon but my focus is on streamer quality first with native Radio Paradise player being the only additional requirement.

The DMP A8 obviously checks a lot of other boxes and the Icon quietly add DSD support to the BS lineup.  Either would add a lot of flexibility but I’d go with a dedicated streamer like the PULSEmini to get quality over quantity.

[rollo]

Innuos has its own operating system called my Innuos. Updates,streaming, my Innuos. Check it out. A DAC though would be IMHO a choice over a streamer.


charles

[AllanS]

A DAC though would be IMHO a choice over a streamer.
charles

Thank you Sir.  It is your HO that I value.

[Rusty Jefferson]

Are you using an outboard dac with the Bluesound, and if so which one? That might be a deciding factor. I think the Bluesound is a very reasonable streamer using the digital output to an outboard dac, but the onboard dac is quite limiting.

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I helped a friend pick out a DAC/Streamer.  We looked at last years Blue Sound Node and it sounded muddy in comparison to the Lumin D3 that he ended up buying.  However the cost difference was about 1900 dollars.  We were not impressed with the DAC in the BSN.  The Lumin had much more detail, was neutral sounding and more musical.

Just some food for thought.

[AllanS]

I helped a friend pick out a DAC/Streamer.  We looked at last years Blue Sound Node and it sounded muddy in comparison to the Lumin D3 that he ended up buying.  However the cost difference was about 1900 dollars.  We were not impressed with the DAC in the BSN.  The Lumin had much more detail, was neutral sounding and more musical.

Just some food for thought.

Are you using an outboard dac with the Bluesound, and if so which one? That might be a deciding factor. I think the Bluesound is a very reasonable streamer using the digital output to an outboard dac, but the onboard dac is quite limiting.

Thanks to both for bringing up an important detail.  The Vault is currently feeding a Schiit Bifrost but I intend to replace it and the downstream Schiit Lyr hp amp/pre.  The combined budget will be pretty modest but I could see myself with something like the DVA digital pre in the system.  And if so would a BS streamer be holding it back.

[Rusty Jefferson]

....The combined budget will be pretty modest but I could see myself with something like the DVA digital pre in the system.  And if so would a BS streamer be holding it back.

In my opinion, no it wouldn't. I think that would be a fine combination. I have a digital pre and really like it. The caveat with the digital preamp is it really sounds best when used with the differential (XLR)  outputs. I switched from single ended to balanced amplifiers after trying it both ways on a friend's very expensive amplifiers that could take either input. Frank confirmed to me there is an architecture reason for this. Something to think about if your amplifier(s) don't have XLR inputs and you're not in a position to replace. The digital pre is a delightful sounding piece though and crazy affordable.

[AllanS]

...The caveat with the digital preamp is it really sounds best when used with the differential (XLR)  outputs... Something to think about if your amplifier(s) don't have XLR inputs and you're not in a position to replace...

Thank you.  DAC is the consensus advice from a couple of different directions.  I'm fortunate enough to have a couple of amps I like, one has balanced inputs (NuPrime AMG STA), the other is SE only (Schiit Aegir).

[I.Greyhound Fan]

I reviewed the Digital preamp for AVA.  The difference in sound between the XLR and RCA's is not that significant.  It still sounds fabulous with RCA's.  If I was buying a DAC right now, it would probably be my number one option.

I do not think that your BSN will hold the AVA DAC back.  Your model is expensive and I suspect its digital out sounds very good.

[crad]

If I can chime in, I've had wonderful results playing around with a Bluesound Node 2i customized with a DC power supply and a 5v linear power, which is easy to do. I also used an outboard SMSL D400EX DAC connected to BS Node via dig. coax, both were a significant improvement and I preferred the sound of that over a HiFi Rose 150b using its internal DAC. I for sure would not bother with the built in DAC of the bluesound, many outboard DAC's will sound better. It's a great bang for the buck and very versatile. I but two of these for friends to use.

The Bluesound Node 2i can also be used with Tidal Connect and it's Roon ready features so the old gal still has legs; The Innuos Pulse Mini can not do either.

As mentioned earlier Innuos lives in its own bubble, and you have to accept their own ecosystem and will be stuck with it; which I'm not a fan of.

Maybe also look at a used Eversolo A6 or A8 and add the Beatnik linear power supply to it. I can not describe how much that improves the SQ of the component.

One last thing, dont forget that the quality of your internet for streaming will make these things sound better when it its good hardwire ethernet connection. Wifi can denigrate the SQ and be blamed on the streamer or software.

[js1955]

If I can chime in, I've had wonderful results playing around with a Bluesound Node 2i customized with a DC power supply and a 5v linear power, which is easy to do........

Thanks for the info, can you provide further details?  Which ones do you use?  Links would be great!

Thanks...
John

[ric]

My two cents, I started with (and still use) a Zen mini, and at some point for a second system tried the BS node which didn't work out. What I like about the Innuos is they have really good customer service--a few times they've needed to fix problems, which may have to do with using an old laptop and windows 7. I also really enjoy using the Innuos Sense (app?) I guess similar to Roon and I now have about 41 categories of music with an average of 2 days worth of music on each. Very easy to navigate.
Perhaps if there's a return policy, why not try both?
Good luck!

[crad]

Thanks for the info, can you provide further details?  Which ones do you use?  Links would be great!

Thanks...
John

I bought a BS used for very cheap, you can now find them stock for under $200 used. But look for one used that has already been converted, that comes with an outboard power supply, which would be 5 DC volts going into the bluesound with the aftermarket DC power board by Beatnik that you install inside the BS.

I would advise to find one used that has already been converted to save money. I've installed two of them (one to loan out to friends) and its very easy to do but you can find them used with an LPS for around $350 if you search hard. You need a Blusesound, the aftermarket DC power circuit board installed, and a 5v (1A or larger) linear power supply, which you can find rather inexpensively now a days. I would not recommend just using just a stock Bluesound without the DC board Modification for streaming nor the internal DAC, its meh.

Link to DC board
https://www.beatechnik.com/product-page/lhy-bluesound-psu-kit

Link to install instructions.
https://www.beatechnik.com/bluesound-node2i-lps-mod

This modification is not a small improvement, it sigincantly improves the sound of the bluesound and very audible. You would need to spend over a $1K on a streamer transport to beat it. Probably brings it very close to a Holo Red. I was very surprised by how good it sounded, it was immediately audible. I was just doing it for fun and get some sound for my office and had a spare LPS. It is not the best of the best streamers, but if you can find one for the above price, then its a terrific bang for the buck until your really ready to make a much bigger step up in budget. I also tried a Wiim Pro with a LPS (it helped) but preferred the modded BS by some margin after a/b'ing.

Innuuous definitely has it fans, but you have to love their ecosystem and heavily commit to them with your playlists down the road, and lack of options, and they are far from being as flexible compared to other streamers so just first make sure you're comfortable living within their ecosystem, many people really like it. There's a lot of good streamers out there (there's all kinds). I have not used the IFI, but I hear good things and it's cheap, The Holo Red is also good and under $1k. The Eversolo's are getting good reviews, becoming very popular, the used prices are going down, and there is now DC power mods like Beatniks for the Eversolo A6 & A8, I bet that would sound very nice, especially when using an outboard DAC but we're talking significantly more money. Just make sure you have a solid Ethernet hardwired into your streamer for best SQ. I use Roon (I swear by it) but the BS app didn't bother me either, neither did the Wiim App which is also good. I did not like Lumin's App at all. I have tried quite a few Streamers, and have a couple systems built. The Bluesound mod is a good stop gap until your able to step up.

I definitely recommend using an outboard DAC for their flexibility and SQ (u get to choose), typically an OB DAC offers better sound than the built-in DAC but an all-in-one has it's merits and convenience, and some can sound good, I like the AKM chip in the A8 and the new A10 is suppose to be a good DAC. I sold my Hifi Rose 150b without regret. I use Roon, Tidal & Qobuz and a 8TB HD of music and now listening to my modded Bluesound with an Aqua Formula dac via Roon while searching to buy a replacement to my Rose. I'm looking at the Eversolo A10 but there's others coming out too. It's a bit of a minefield out there.

[AllanS]

The Eversolo's are getting good reviews, becoming very popular,

I regret not finding a way to demo the AVA at the same time, but I actually ended up with a used A8 that I am so far pretty content with.
As a streamer alone it’s on par with the Vault 2i but my primary interest in the A8 was the AKM DAC (also used in the AVA, though I make no assumptions that they sound the same), connectivity, on board DSP (to eliminate another box) and, superficially, the color. (My entire system is black or close enough not to stand out.) 
The spec sheet touches on all the right things, which I attribute to first impressions that it brings a touch better sense of layering to the sound stage than my Schiit Bifrost.
Initially I was drawn to the HDMI input and I2S out, but the combined I/O provides over the top flexibility for system integration. You get to choose where to insert digital, analog DAC, and preamp output into an existing system.  Well considered component choices can result in distinctively different systems with minimal or no cabling swaps.
Take all this with a grain of salt.  Since I’m not the most discriminating listener I’m finding myself increasingly biased towards the stuff that make more obvious differences to me.  I am, however, interested in the LPS upgrade for the Vault that will remain in the system, at least until adding storage to the A8.

[crad]

I am, however, interested in the LPS upgrade for the Vault that will remain in the system, at least until adding storage to the A8.

You may also want to look into the DC board and LPS mod for your A8. I haven't heard much reviews but I guessing it could be an audible (SQ) improvement?

[cameraman]

The Innuos Pulse Mini has been discontinued but is still a nice product and available used at great prices. It has been replaced with the Stream series.

I installed an Innuos Stream1 with PhoenixUSB board and LPS1 this week and it has been sounding great. My Anthem STR USB DAC has the higher specifications (synchronous USB Audio Input supports 32-bit/384kHz PCM, and DSD 2.8 / 5.6 MHz sources). I connect to the STR USB DAC from the PhoenixUSB output on the Stream1. The Anthem STR is my preferred choice for 2-channel listening.

The Anthem AVM 90 sounds great too using the secondary, integrated USB out on the Stream1 that I plug a HiFace2 USB to Coax converter into and run to a Coax input on the AVM 90. I have successfully tested up to Qobuz 24 bit/192kHz files on both the STR and AVM 90. Putting up our Christmas tree and decorations in other rooms, I played the Stream1 on the AVM 90's zone 2 feeding our whole house speakers and with the Innous Sense app I was able to control Christmas albums and playlists easily on my iPad, discovering music I would never have been exposed to before.

As you can see in the attached picture, I wanted components with a short enough width to fit side by side on shelves with standard size components. I'll tuck the USB cable away once I'm done ripping my CD collection to the 4TB M.2 SSD I installed in the Stream1.

Amplifiers are in a different room.

[MttBsh]

Maybe also look at a used Eversolo A6 or A8 and add the Beatnik linear power supply to it. I can not describe how much that improves the SQ of the component.


[/quote]

I interpreted Crad's statement above "I cannot describe how much that (the Beatnik linear power supply) improves the sound quality of the Eversolo" to mean the improvement was so great that it couldn't be described. After doing a little research I think I was wrong, that he meant he cannot describe it because he hasn't heard it. Many who added the Beatnik to their Eversolos ended up taking it out because it didn't bring an improvement to the sound and in fact introduced a hum. Just wanted to mention that in case others interpreted Crad's comment the way I initially did. Sounds like adding The Beatnik linear power supply to the Betnik is not such a great idea.

[MttBsh]

I mean adding the Beatnik to the Eversolo is not such as great idea

[newzooreview]

In addition, the Eversolo A8 has a linear power supply:

"Dual Power Supplies Design

In order to eliminate interference and noise between the system circuit and the audio circuit, and to enhance sound purity, separate designs are employed for the power supply of the system and the audio circuit. The linear power supply is composed of a multi-winding toroidal transformer, specifically designed to match the characteristics of analog audio circuits. The high-quality switching power supply is tailored for the system circuit. It significantly reduces ripple and magnetic leakage interference, providing strong support for high-quality audio processing. Furthermore, it incorporates a patented smart switching technology for the linear power supply voltage input, enabling compatibility with voltages worldwide without flipping switches."

So, tinkering with the power supplies is not a straightforward issue in this case.

[crad]

"in case others interpreted Crad's comment the way I initially did. Sounds like adding The Beatnik linear power supply to the Betnik is not such a great idea."

That is correct, and thank you for clarifying, I have not heard that LPS and mod with the Eversolo. so I can't speak about it. I have set up and listened to the stock A6 but not the modded one. I dig how well the A6 user interaction is, very easy to use and intuitive, stable and also a bit of a Swiss army knife. Having said that, I like the SQ the sound of the modded out Bluesound. I find them (modded) on USAM for $350-ish w/LPS, and at that price I give them a huge thumbs up.