[allensound]

Hi all,

I've been posting a bit more lately because I'm about ready to start on this project 

Alright, first, here's an image of the layout of the room with some dimension information.


I'm guessing most would classify it as a small to medium sized room.  First let me start with what this room is going to be / what I want it to be.
It will be a mixture of stereo listening + tv / movie watching.  Whether or not I end up going with additional surround speakers and whatnot are all dependent upon how happy I am with things in the 2-channel setup.

Desired speakers:
* NX-Treme (would probably be pretty giant in the room with the ceiling height being 8'6" where these would live) OR
* NX-Otica (wife would probably approve of these better due to the size)
Subs:
* 2x Rythmik Audio FVX15 (already have one, will be buying another) - debated a pair of the triple OB subs...just unsure if that's what I want
Acoustic treatment:
* Plan to do as many bass traps as possible + diffusion to tame the room sound - really wanting this room to sing when done

My understanding is the ideal layout for two channel listening is to have the speakers pointed into the room where the sound is traveling in parallel with the longest walls...that may be a problem because of what is at either end of the longest walls.

The wall that has the windows (on the left wall in the photo) are a view out onto a pool area and it's really a pretty view.  So, I don't think I can put a TV / projector screen on that side unless I do something that is able to disappear when not in use.  I'm not against this at all, I just don't know how feasible it is.  I have been looking at some UST laser projectors with "pop up" ALR screens - that may be an option.  I would also like the screen to be in the 100" ballpark give or take a few inches if necessary.   

The wall on the right with the single door in the photo is actually french doors leading into another room that I can't really get rid of.  So putting anything on that side of the room is kinda out.

Then there's the option of going the other direction and setting the room up wide for listening which would likely work out best due to the layout with doors and windows, but from what I understand it makes the listening position / speaker position a bit more of a challenge.  With this setup it'd be really easy to put a TV / Projector screen on the back wall (only wall that is a clean slate), put sound absorption curtains on the windows and doors on the left and right sides of the room, as well as any additional treatments necessary.  Again, I think this is the "easiest" setup, just don't know how well it'd work with the listening positions, speaker positions and the 3-dimensionality I seek, which is the whole reaosn I'm looking at the NX series of GR Research speakers....

Any thoughts?  Would love to get some outside ideas, and suggestions on whether the NX-Treme's are overkill in a room that sized and I should just get it in my head that the Oticas will deliver the goods and I can rest easy...

Looking forward to the feedback on this

[Early B.]

Overkill is encouraged here. If you can get NX-Tremes, then do it.

[js1955]

If all those doors are glass, good luck!

I had much less glass -- room is 16 x 30, with tall sloping ceilings, and solid glass on one 16 ft wall -- and the echo / reverb was a nightmare.  System was unlistenable.

[Letitroll98]

It's perfectly fine to use long wall placement.  I've done both as well as corner placement.  You haven't mentioned speaker placement, but best placement for audio, which is well out into the room, is usually the opposite of home theater placement which is usually next to the screen.  Assuming a modest compromise between those two placements you're still giving up soundstage depth to some degree, which is one of the best features of short wall placement.  So go ahead with the long wall placement that makes the most sense in your room.

[allensound]

Overkill is encouraged here. If you can get NX-Tremes, then do it.

Seems you and I think alike.  Thanks!

[allensound]

If all those doors are glass, good luck!

I had much less glass -- room is 16 x 30, with tall sloping ceilings, and solid glass on one 16 ft wall -- and the echo / reverb was a nightmare.  System was unlistenable.

Yeah, every door has glass panels on them.  I can potentially change those to solid doors which I’m not opposed to.  The windows are the only ones I really can’t / don’t want to touch.  I figure I’ll do my best with treatments and coverings and go from there.  If the room still isn’t behaving, I’ll move onto replacing doors

[allensound]

It's perfectly fine to use long wall placement.  I've done both as well as corner placement.  You haven't mentioned speaker placement, but best placement for audio, which is well out into the room, is usually the opposite of home theater placement which is usually next to the screen.  Assuming a modest compromise between those two placements you're still giving up soundstage depth to some degree, which is one of the best features of short wall placement.  So go ahead with the long wall placement that makes the most sense in your room.

Excellent - thank you for the feedback.  Yes, my plan is to bring them out into the room at least 3’, maybe 4.  I think the biggest problem with using the long wall for the setup is that means there’s only another 11-12’ from the back wall at that point and from what I understand you want the listening position off that wall so it really squeezes the space.  I’m ok with compromising but I don’t want to steal what makes the NX’s so special.  I’m sure I’ll have to tinker a bit, but hearing others say it’s ok to use the wide wall is encouraging.

[VinceT]

I suggest lots of thick curtains over the glass, even for those French doors.

That room is not very big for huge speakers and a lot of glass. Pulling speakers 3-4 foot out in the room and seating position 3-4 foot from back wall is going to put you about 8-10 foot from the speakers in more of a nearfield listening position. The benefit of that room is you could use wider speaker spacing to get deeper soundstage. I never heard Danny's NX line but perhaps the Oticas would be more suitable? Not sure and maybe others more in the know will chime in.

[js1955]

Yeah, every door has glass panels on them.  I can potentially change those to solid doors which I’m not opposed to.  The windows are the only ones I really can’t / don’t want to touch.  I figure I’ll do my best with treatments and coverings and go from there.  If the room still isn’t behaving, I’ll move onto replacing doors

I wouldn't change from glass to wood.   It is still a reflective surface, and needs to be treated the same way.   IMO, your plan to use thick coverings and treatment panels is the correct one.

My original post -- with photos -- seeking input on my room:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=188332.msg1972227#msg1972227

If interested, you can see how I finally treated my room here:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=41546

Much better, can listen now!   
PS:   Even the "bright and aggressive" Klipsch Forte IV sound VG in here.....and I'm very sensitive to that.

A thread on acoustic drapes:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=158408.0

Good luck and keep us posted!   

~ John

[allensound]

I suggest lots of thick curtains over the glass, even for those French doors.

That room is not very big for huge speakers and a lot of glass. Pulling speakers 3-4 foot out in the room and seating position 3-4 foot from back wall is going to put you about 8-10 foot from the speakers in more of a nearfield listening position. The benefit of that room is you could use wider speaker spacing to get deeper soundstage. I never heard Danny's NX line but perhaps the Oticas would be more suitable? Not sure and maybe others more in the know will chime in.

Yeah, that really was the challenge - going with the wide layout, it reduces the amount of room between the listening position and the speakers but I may have to make that sacrifice.  And I'm with you - I plan to have as many acoustic absorbers as possible...

[allensound]

I wouldn't change from glass to wood.   It is still a reflective surface, and needs to be treated the same way.   IMO, your plan to use thick coverings and treatment panels is the correct one.

My original post -- with photos -- seeking input on my room:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=188332.msg1972227#msg1972227

If interested, you can see how I finally treated my room here:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=41546

Much better, can listen now!   
PS:   Even the "bright and aggressive" Klipsch Forte IV sound VG in here.....and I'm very sensitive to that.

A thread on acoustic drapes:
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=158408.0

Good luck and keep us posted!   

~ John

Hi John - thank you for sharing all that!  I just went down all the rabbit holes in each of the posts.  Your room actually turned out looking rather nice - I was a little shocked when I saw that you mentioned you used moving blankets to tame the room, but with the additional coverings everything really does look nice.  Thank you again for sharing all the information - I really did look through it all! 

I think the biggest challenge I'll face is the windows on the left side of the room.  If I can figure out what to do over there that will "work" I think I'll be good.  I believe I'll have the ability to put bass traps in all the corners of the room so I'm thinking those windows will just need to be mid/high frequency tamers. 

I'll either be picking up the UMIK-1 or UMIK-2 from MiniDSP so I can take measurements and see what's happening each step of the way. 
https://www.minidsp.com/products/acoustic-measurement/umik-2

Seeing the results folks have gotten doing what Jesco from Acoustics Insider suggests have been VERY promising - before and after waterfall plots really show some major differences just by adding bass traps and acoustic panels.  He's got a great YT channel:
https://www.youtube.com/@AcousticsInsider

Thank you again and I'll keep this thread posted as I move forward with the "challenges" ahead.

[js1955]

Hi John - thank you for sharing all that!  I just went down all the rabbit holes in each of the posts.  Your room actually turned out looking rather nice - I was a little shocked when I saw that you mentioned you used moving blankets to tame the room, but with the additional coverings everything really does look nice. 

Haha!  Yeah.   No woman in the house, so I don't worry about WAF.  My initial plan was to cover the window wall with heavy drapes.   Then I did the deep dive and kept finding comments that they really don't do much, even the ones on Amazon labelled "acoustic curtains".

I might be wrong, but I concluded that when it comes to the curtain / drape approach, the only ones that really have a chance of actually being effective are the ones sold by vocalboothtogo.com, or other companies selling acoustic drape treatments targetted at studios and theatres.  My plan was to just try the moving blankets temporarily.  If things improved then certainly the vocal booth stuff would be even better, and I'd move onto them. 

I guess I'm kindoff happy with the blankets as I have no strong urge to make the switch.  Besides, the vocal booth stuff doesn't look any better than moving blankets, and are much pricier.  And if I wanna deaden stuff even more, I can try adding another layer of Harbor Freight moving blankets.  Very cheap experiment.  Or to improve the look,  I can simply hang drapes over the blankets.

For now I'm OK with the look.  I actually prefer it -- both visually and functionally -- to all that stark glass.  More cozy and warm when sitting in the room -- I never liked living in a fish tank.  And in different seasons should help to keep the heat and cold out. 

One day I may try the pro vocal booth stuff, or maybe even heavy drapes.  We'll see.

[corndog71]

My only suggestion would be to use Danny’s subs.  Still Rythmik, but the paper cone GR drivers even at 12” are musical monsters.

[Tyson]

My only suggestion would be to use Danny’s subs.  Still Rythmik, but the paper cone GR drivers even at 12” are musical monsters.

I agree, the sealed servo subs are outstanding.

If you're going to do box subs, then it's best to get 3 or 4 subs and disperse them around the room in a 'swarm' setup.  It will give you the most even room loading and ameliorate a lot of a box subs inherent boomyness. 

[allensound]

My only suggestion would be to use Danny’s subs.  Still Rythmik, but the paper cone GR drivers even at 12” are musical monsters.

It's going to be hard to make that change because I LOVE my Rythmik so much :-p

I'm really thinking about scheduling a trip to head out there and visit Danny and listen to his setup to see if it sways my thinking.

[allensound]

I agree, the sealed servo subs are outstanding.

If you're going to do box subs, then it's best to get 3 or 4 subs and disperse them around the room in a 'swarm' setup.  It will give you the most even room loading and ameliorate a lot of a box subs inherent boomyness.

Very much appreciate it!

[Endo2112]

First, love the NX Tremes, built the first pair and miss them often!! My suggestion is this, do the best that you can with your room, then get Sonarworks, I’ve used it in a couple lively rooms before and can’t say enough about the results. It works particularly well in one spot.

Good luck,

Don