[WannaBeHiFi]

Ah man, you have way to many hard surfaces everywhere to be getting any really good results.

Step number 1 is to start treating your room. The rest will fall into place.

Well.  I'm sittin' here trying to envision what that future might look like, unburdened from the past.     Dang! It's just turning my brain into salad.

I'm guessing the floor represents the dominant reflector.
We banished carpet years ago.  Rugs represent fall hazards for my wife who broke her hip last year and has bad knees which contribute to poor balance.  I'm concerned a rug will catch more sand and fur than reflections.  Still, it will be interesting to experiment with the floor between me and the speakers.  At this point, I can see where that might turn into roll it out for listening and roll it up for living. 
Eh.  I dunno, we'll see.

Walls.  I have no idea where to start.  But before we go there, I need to clear out my wife's cr,,, stuff    I need my table back.  I want to recap the vintage amp this winter. 
I've got to move things around so I can start a fire if I get the urge.  I will make those adjustments first, then we can talk about where I might place absorption.  That's what really turns my brain into salad.

[VinceT]

You can get some rugs and roll them up and put them away when not using the area for listening. Also could move those chairs a bit to cover the desk and fireplace and slide them back when done listening before the wife sees it. Even a couple old pillows or lawn chair cushions along the walls between the speakers would help. These are just quick little non permanent things that would help the room. Today I set up my Encores in my daughters room using a little Fosi streaming amp. Man
. It sounds nice and punchy in her small bedroom. Used some old stuffed animals for absorption behind the speakers on the shelf. A couple thick books under the speakers to decouple from the shelf I put them on. Really focused the bass and made it less boomy. Cheap and cheerful, using what I had to make the best of the situation. These are up high on a bookshelf, not away from the wall, not equal distance and pretty close to the ceiling. You know what..sounds pretty darn good.

[Early B.]

Well.  I'm sittin' here trying to envision what that future might look like, unburdened from the past.     Dang! It's just turning my brain into salad.

I'm guessing the floor represents the dominant reflector.
We banished carpet years ago.  Rugs represent fall hazards for my wife who broke her hip last year and has bad knees which contribute to poor balance.  I'm concerned a rug will catch more sand and fur than reflections.  Still, it will be interesting to experiment with the floor between me and the speakers.  At this point, I can see where that might turn into roll it out for listening and roll it up for living. 
Eh.  I dunno, we'll see.

Walls.  I have no idea where to start.  But before we go there, I need to clear out my wife's cr,,, stuff    I need my table back.  I want to recap the vintage amp this winter. 
I've got to move things around so I can start a fire if I get the urge.  I will make those adjustments first, then we can talk about where I might place absorption.  That's what really turns my brain into salad.

I have a better idea -- forget about room treatments for now. Yeah, nearly every audiophile defaults to "fix your room" but that's not feasible for everyone, especially if you don't have a man-cave or dedicated space. Sure, you have lots of hard surfaces, but you also have plenty of "stuff" in your room that mitigates this issue, and your ability to pull the speakers out into the room is a huge advantage. Getting good bass in your room will be challenging, but there's a workaround for that. Room treatments are costly, often unsightly, and require a tremendous amount of trial and error. You can consult with 10 acoustic engineers and get 11 different answers. If your system doesn't sound overly bright or echoey, then work within the limitations of what you have and focus on other system priorities. 

[Rocket_Ronny]

I don't see why you can't get a decent soundstage in that room.

If it's not happening with that orientation, I would get the speakers closer, even to an almost near field position.

The key for me is to have the direct sound be at least 10 ms before the reflected. Count each foot as a ms.

One could get a roll up throw rug for the floor to at least cover the reflection point if the sound is too bright or not imaging as you would like.

Rocket Ronny

[Tyson]

Listen to Rocket! 

Also, this is useful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyTkwkK8ON0

[Rusty Jefferson]

I imagine you're getting a good stereo image between the speakers but understand why you're not getting a wide/deep/tall soundstage behind the speakers. The soundstage is created from the room reflections but they have to be controlled. That doesn't sound like that's likely to be possible/practical in your new space.

Understand your concern with rugs being a trip hazard for your wife. I'd be concerned about those speakers/stands being out in the room too. She may try to stop a fall by latching onto one for stability but its not going to save her. Might make things worse.

Apologies if I'm throwing a wet blanket on your desire to improve your stereo. Just trying to make an evaluation from the information you've supplied. If you're committed to using the speakers then perhaps placing them on the long wall on the right side of your picture facing toward the exit. That will reduce early reflections from the side walls. You can also make a wider image with the speakers positioned on that wall than you're getting now.  Thought about headphone use?

[Early B.]

One could get a roll up throw rug for the floor to at least cover the reflection point if the sound is too bright or not imaging as you would like.

Rooms are weird places for an audio system. Years ago, I replaced the carpet with hardwood flooring in my den and it made zero difference in sound. I was expecting a brighter sound, but nuthin'. A throw rug may do a lot or might not do a damn thing. Try this -- get a blanket and place it on the floor. If the sound improves, then you may not choose to buy a throw rug for the reasons you provided, but at least you'll know. 

A quick story -- many years ago I visited an audiophile who only had a listening chair, speakers, and nothing else in his dedicated room. His components were in the adjacent room. Most audiophiles would cringe at such a setup, but I was impressed at how clean and pure his system sounded.

There's no formula for getting a room right. Some audiophiles say you'll need to treat every wall and the ceiling and place bass traps in the corners, while a small number will suggest the exact opposite. My point is -- rooms are unpredictable where both nothing and everything matters. Switch out a cable and now you gotta re-tune the room. It's crazy, man.
 

[WannaBeHiFi]

I don't see why you can't get a decent soundstage in that room.

Rocket Ronny

Well, I've changed room configuration several times, this sounds best so far.  Then as of the last equip upgrade I have a decent soundstage for the first time.  Now I'm looking for the tweaks to maximize what I have.  Y'all have given me some ideas.  I definitely need better source material.  Danny talks a lot about soundstage and how things like cables and tube connectors can make a difference.  But I had to get the soundstage first. 

I built my X-LS with binding cups but bought the tube connectors.
So I ordered 50ft of 12ga ofc cable.  I'm going to make some new cables, install the tube connectors and see if that makes an audible improvement over bare end 16ga lamp wire.

[WannaBeHiFi]

Listen to Rocket! 

Also, this is useful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CyTkwkK8ON0

Yep, that's partly responsible for getting me this far.

[WannaBeHiFi]

Rooms are weird places.... It's crazy, man.
 

Yea but it keeps me from going insane.  Thanks for the insightful thought provoking response.

[WannaBeHiFi]

... Also could move those chairs a bit to cover the desk and fireplace and slide them back when done listening before the wife sees it.

One of the chairs is on it's way out.  In fact I moved the old rocker against the wall right in front of L speaker to see if it makes a difference.  If so it's minor, I will have to listen a lot more music before I make that call.
I've always seen the front wall as half dispersive and half reflective. 

[nlitworld]

There really is no limit to how you can improve the sound. Obviously the first discussion here was room treatments. But let's talk about other options. How handy are you with a soldering iron? Feel like experimenting with some gear mods? One that I know made a hig difference for me was KLE chassis RCA plugs. Quickie little swap that'd take about an hour to work through, but immediate extra detail available and for cheap.
Here from SonicCraft

Pop some of those on the output of your DAC and see what you think. That will start a whole other rabbit hole of possibilities, but it's addicting and fun. 

[WannaBeHiFi]

I imagine you're getting a good stereo image between the speakers but understand why you're not getting a wide/deep/tall soundstage behind the speakers. The soundstage is created from the room reflections but they have to be controlled. That doesn't sound like that's likely to be possible/practical in your new space.

Understand your concern with rugs being a trip hazard for your wife. I'd be concerned about those speakers/stands being out in the room too. She may try to stop a fall by latching onto one for stability but its not going to save her. Might make things worse.

Apologies if I'm throwing a wet blanket on your desire to improve your stereo. Just trying to make an evaluation from the information you've supplied. If you're committed to using the speakers then perhaps placing them on the long wall on the right side of your picture facing toward the exit. That will reduce early reflections from the side walls. You can also make a wider image with the speakers positioned on that wall than you're getting now.  Thought about headphone use?

I don't know about tall, but with the right recording I've got wide and something resembling deep, I can hear the bass behind the other instruments.  Not all but a lot of the sound appears to come from well behind the speakers.

I appreciate your concern about the speakers on stands.  But I can't mitigate all risk.

I tried the orientation you suggested.  I could only get the speakers about a foot from the wall.  Results were not as good as the current configuration. 

Headphones?  No.  Though my wife might appreciate it.  After 20 years of headphones and in ear buds on a plane.  I'm very pleased with the X-LS Encores.

[WannaBeHiFi]

There really is no limit to how you can improve the sound. Obviously the first discussion here was room treatments. But let's talk about other options. How handy are you with a soldering iron? Feel like experimenting with some gear mods? One that I know made a hig difference for me was KLE chassis RCA plugs. Quickie little swap that'd take about an hour to work through, but immediate extra detail available and for cheap.
Here from SonicCraft

Pop some of those on the output of your DAC and see what you think. That will start a whole other rabbit hole of possibilities, but it's addicting and fun. 

Rabbit hole indeed!  Are you serious?  Swapping RCA plugs makes an audible difference.  Hmmmm.   What sort of cosmic debris is this?  I'll place that in the tube connector category.  I'll have to hear to believe.

I've got a Yamaha M-45 running on caps that are double their expected life span.  I plan to service that amp this winter, replace all the electrolytics, check the transistors ect.  I'm curious to hear how a properly resored mid 80's A/B amp will compare with the sparkos modified chifi amp.  If I can hear a difference by going to 12ga with tube connector at the speaker, I may install tube connectors at the amp while I'm at it.  Replacing the RCA's while at it?  At this point I'm not convinced.

[nlitworld]

I get it. The old Russian proverb "Trust but Verify" certainly rings true, but yeah it's a cheap and awesome upgrade. Every item I've done this to has benefitted. Much like tube connector theory, better connections make better music. Tiny smidge of solid core wire from circuit board to connector, couple curse words from burning a finger and you're good to go.

[WannaBeHiFi]

Ah man, you have way to many hard surfaces everywhere to be getting any really good results.

Step number 1 is to start treating your room. The rest will fall into place.

So, given what I have to work with.... What would you recommend for the lower frequencies? 
Please and thank you sir.

[WannaBeHiFi]

I get it. The old Russian proverb "Trust but Verify" certainly rings true, but yeah it's a cheap and awesome upgrade. Every item I've done this to has benefitted. Much like tube connector theory, better connections make better music. Tiny smidge of solid core wire from circuit board to connector, couple curse words from burning a finger and you're good to go.

Ok.  Say I roll up some of this cosmic debris you're selling and smoke it.  Say I put these super RCA connectors on DAC and Amp.  How much do I then have to spend for cables worthy of such connections?
There's that wabbit hole.  Hell, I can quickly spend more in cables than I have in equipment. 
Shuuuuuuuuuuu.  I'm hunting wabbits.....

[artur9]

I would consider investing in a UMIK and a laptop and learning Room EQ Wizard.

With that you could measure the things adversely affecting your soundstage and then determine an appropriate fix.

For example, finding reflections that destroy the acoustic cues in the recording.

[corndog71]

I would encourage, if possible, short speaker cables with long interconnects.  I just think 20’ of speaker cables is excessive.  Danny’s speaker cables are pretty good.  The braiding reduces interference.  Maybe consider a nice compact amp like a Schiit Aegir set between the speakers.  Heck, I’m driving my X-SLS with a Schiit Gjallerhorn and get great sound. 

[Early B.]

Ok.  Say I roll up some of this cosmic debris you're selling and smoke it.  Say I put these super RCA connectors on DAC and Amp.  How much do I then have to spend for cables worthy of such connections?
There's that wabbit hole.  Hell, I can quickly spend more in cables than I have in equipment. 
Shuuuuuuuuuuu.  I'm hunting wabbits.....

The rabbit hole is an essential part of the audiophile experience. Embrace it. Start with replacing your amp. Your speakers deserve better quality and you'll never achieve anything resembling a decent soundstage with an old Yamaha or cheap chifi amp. Don't waste time and money modifying that stuff. And yeah, be prepared to spend as much on cables as you do on components. That's part of the rabbit hole freefall.