Tyson's LineForce Build

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jmimac351

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #20 on: 18 Oct 2024, 02:12 am »
When I looked into "Line Force" a while back, called Danny and "got the news", etc... I came across a picture of Danny standing next to a Line Force with a few other guys who were, I think, from the OEM / Designer of the drivers.  They said it was the best pair of speakers they'd ever heard.

So, Tyson now has the best speakers.  Good for you and Have Fun!  :thumb:

Huskerbryce

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #21 on: 18 Oct 2024, 05:23 am »
Tyson, have you done a frequency sweep test in your room?  If so, what useable frequency do they roll off at without the subs? 

jmimac351

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #22 on: 18 Oct 2024, 07:28 pm »
Update: Tyson still has the best speakers.

https://youtu.be/-GVdYAQkD8I?si=kFwQx5u6G04pn3Ck


mkrawcz

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #23 on: 18 Oct 2024, 07:37 pm »
The Lineforce can easily be built using the Radian LM10 and it may be even better than the Neo10. I still have to work on my super minis and get one out to Danny to test. I will try and get to that soon once I have a couple other projects out of the way. Hal has already been testing the LM10 with good results. So there’s already hope for a future Lineforce. It will probably be at least $15k just in parts, but it’s the best speaker in the word and that makes it the bargain of the century.

HAL

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #24 on: 19 Oct 2024, 01:41 pm »
With the BG NEO10's the low frequency cut off is 150Hz for the line array without the servo subs.  The LM10n cutoff is 200Hz in comparison.   

The Rythmik Audio HX300-12OB works correctly with the new LM10n's.  That is why I use 4 of them as they have a 200Hz setting compared to the 120Hz setting in the A370 and newer HX310 servo amps.  I measured the A370 and it's Fc-6dB is 150Hz.  Rythmik Audio lowered the upper cutoff frequency in the newer generation servo amps for open baffle use.

If you want to see pictures of the Line Array with the LM10n's they are in this thread:

https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=189217.0

Will be happy to discuss them if wanted.

jmimac351

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #25 on: 19 Oct 2024, 02:03 pm »
Hal, you share a lot on this stuff and it's very helpful!  It's too bad this forum doesn't provide the ability to express appreciation without creating a new post.  You da man!

mkrawcz: Please forward tracking number when available.  :icon_lol:

Look at these "DIY guys" playing with some of the best stuffs on the planet... ain't it cool.  8)

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #26 on: 19 Oct 2024, 11:45 pm »
Congratulations.  With you Super7's you had a speaker that bested my LS9's in lots of ways, but the Lineforce best them in every way!  You're done.  You can rest from your audio journey... speaker wise, anyway. 
You know, a friend of mine here in CO had a pair of custom OB LS9's.  They were actually pretty close to the LineForce.  Not sure if that's something possible with yours, but might be worth looking into. 




Wow - just wow!  :o

If I find myself in your neck of the woods again, I would love to hear these -- at reasonable listening levels.
Of course, I'd love to meet you in person.




They look great, and bet sound amazing. Wonder why they stopped making those NEO drivers?
I think the company making the Neo10s got bought out.




Boy do I know it. I'm helping a friend with triple threat kit right now and ibuprofen abuse is a real thing.  :lol:

Just keep sanding... Just keep sanding...

It takes a good friend to subject themselves to such antics but we all do it for the sake of new audio toys.  :thumb:
I had no idea that moving up to a bigger speaker would involve so much extra work.  They might have been 3x bigger than prior DIY speakers I've done, but they were 10x the work!




When I built my NX Oticas, I sanded for weeks it seemed. I didn’t actually keep calendar track of how many days and how many hours I sanded, but it was a freaking lot.

Tyson, have you done a frequency sweep test in your room?  If so, what useable frequency do they roll off at without the subs?
And you can't do it mindlessly either.  You have to stay focused at all times because it's so easy to screw up!  Next project I'm switching over to veneer instead.  It's gotta be easier than paint!

Rolloff on the Neo10's will vary based on room acoustics.  I my music setup in my upstairs system, they roll off at 100hz.  In my downstairs system (HT), they rolled off at 125hz. 




When I looked into "Line Force" a while back, called Danny and "got the news", etc... I came across a picture of Danny standing next to a Line Force with a few other guys who were, I think, from the OEM / Designer of the drivers.  They said it was the best pair of speakers they'd ever heard.

So, Tyson now has the best speakers.  Good for you and Have Fun!  :thumb:
Danny told me this is only the 4th pair in existence.  I feel very lucky to be one of the 4.




The Lineforce can easily be built using the Radian LM10 and it may be even better than the Neo10. I still have to work on my super minis and get one out to Danny to test. I will try and get to that soon once I have a couple other projects out of the way. Hal has already been testing the LM10 with good results. So there’s already hope for a future Lineforce. It will probably be at least $15k just in parts, but it’s the best speaker in the word and that makes it the bargain of the century.
Agreed, the LM10 is a good replacement.  I went with the Neo10's because I'd heard the LineForce using them and they fixed one of the glaring issues I had with the Super 7's - low male vocals.  The 7's don't produce that range with power.  The LineForce with Neo10s do.  The LM10 has an even higher cutoff point, so I wasn't confident they'd address this to my satisfaction. 

But yeah, if the LM10's are a good replacement, that would awesome because more people should have the option to build/hear speakers like this.

hawkeyejw

Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #27 on: 22 Oct 2024, 11:00 am »
Congrats Tyson, they look spectacular! What was your playlist for the first listen?

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #28 on: 22 Oct 2024, 04:25 pm »
Congrats Tyson, they look spectacular! What was your playlist for the first listen?

Oh, large scale Bruckner and Johnny Cash!  The 2 things the Super 7's were weak at - very large scale and lower male vocals.  The LineForces were glorious.

poseidonsvoice

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #29 on: 22 Oct 2024, 08:36 pm »
Congrats Tyson, you’ve finally got end game speakers….again!  :thumb:

Best,
Anand.

Endo2112

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #30 on: 22 Oct 2024, 10:46 pm »
First, Tyson your first attempt at painting looks fantastic, great job!! personally I don’t have the patience to attempt such an undertaking, so I applaud those that do.

Second, we actually cut two sets of lineforces as we were fully expecting to put 1 set in Jay’s room but he has decided that they will ultimately be just too big for his space, I’m sure the folks that have been at Jay’s (Captainhemo’s) will concur. Hence, if anyone has some BG10’s lying around, there is another set available.

Cheers,

Don

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #31 on: 22 Oct 2024, 10:50 pm »
Congrats Tyson, you’ve finally got end game speakers….again!  :thumb:

Best,
Anand.
Of course you are welcome to come by and listen when you are in town again  :thumb:


First, Tyson your first attempt at painting looks fantastic, great job!! personally I don’t have the patience to attempt such an undertaking, so I applaud those that do.

Second, we actually cut two sets of lineforces as we were fully expecting to put 1 set in Jay’s room but he has decided that they will ultimately be just too big for his space, I’m sure the folks that have been at Jay’s (Captainhemo’s) will concur. Hence, if anyone has some BG10’s lying around, there is another set available.

Cheers,

Don
Oh right, I forgot about the 2nd pair of cabinets.  I'd say anyone wanting a pair of LineForces should jump on them.  I didn't emphasize enough in my first post how well made the main cabinets are.  These things are STOUT and incredibly inert.   The CNC work was also spectacular. 

hawkeyejw

Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #32 on: 23 Oct 2024, 12:22 am »
Oh, large scale Bruckner and Johnny Cash!  The 2 things the Super 7's were weak at - very large scale and lower male vocals.  The LineForces were glorious.

Great choices. I was just listening to Cash’s American IV album this week for the first time in a while
So good.

corndog71

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #33 on: 23 Oct 2024, 01:17 am »
How tall are the Line Force sections not counting the subs?

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #34 on: 23 Oct 2024, 03:22 am »
How tall are the Line Force sections not counting the subs?

64 inches without the subs.

But, if you didn't have the subs, they have feet that add about 6 inches to their height.  So 70 inches with the standard feet.

Jaytor

Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #35 on: 23 Oct 2024, 05:27 pm »
If you have the room, keeping the Line Forces separate from the subs is the best option. This gives you the flexibility to place the subs in the best position for smooth bass response and place the Line Forces for best imaging and sound stage. It also eliminates any vibration transfer from the subs to the line arrays which can have minor detrimental effect.

I was able to find a couple of Neo10 drivers on US Audiomart, so they do show up on occasion. They were pretty popular for DIY speakers, so you might find someone else's DIY project for sale that you can pull drivers from. It might take a while to collect 12 drivers, but not impossible. For example, here's a pair currently on ebay.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/305844779204

Unfortunately, the Radian drivers aren't exactly the same size. I'm not sure if the cabinets that captainhemo has could be modified for the Radian drivers, but as Tyson mentioned, the NEO10s play a bit lower and can probably be more easily integrated with the GR open baffle subs.

Jaytor

Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #36 on: 23 Oct 2024, 05:35 pm »
And here's a pair of BG speakers that have all the NEO10 and NEO3 drivers you need to build a pair of Line Forces. This isn't that much more than I paid for my drivers, and you may be able to get the seller to come down in price a bit. You could use these speakers as is, but I think the Line Forces with GR OB subs will sound a lot better since they are open baffle, having better crossovers, and have the drivers placed closer together.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/155199578255

corndog71

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #37 on: 23 Oct 2024, 07:10 pm »
I don’t need this.  I don’t need this.  I don’t need this.   :wink: :lol:

Tyson

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #38 on: 23 Oct 2024, 07:48 pm »
I don’t need this.  I don’t need this.  I don’t need this.   :wink: :lol:

Heck, you wouldn't even have to wait for cabinets to be built as there's an extra pair from when mine were made  :icon_twisted:

mkrawcz

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Re: Tyson's LineForce Build
« Reply #39 on: 23 Oct 2024, 08:21 pm »
Heck, you wouldn't even have to wait for cabinets to be built as there's an extra pair from when mine were made  :icon_twisted:
You’re killing me here. Lack of replacement drivers is a little terrifying.