The new Revelation Raven Preamp

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. Read 32084 times.

dls123

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 138
    • Citation Restoration
Re: The new Revelation Raven Preamp
« Reply #100 on: 13 Mar 2025, 03:38 pm »
Thanks so much for posting your impressions of the Raven.  In my experience, those Ray tubes will improve for close to 100 hours, and the big cathode bypass caps in the Raven also subtly improve for probably 100 hours.  So it just might get a wee bit better in the next week or two, but you have most of it at 50 hours...

Presb4

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 159
Re: The new Revelation Raven Preamp
« Reply #101 on: 14 Mar 2025, 08:54 pm »
Phono2024

I too recently received my Raven Preamp and am in the middle of giving it a good listen before posting my impressions. But I wanted to write you a note on the Schiit Loki Max you have. I have almost the same set up in my rack to include the same EQ. You should really evaluate the Raven with a straight balanced through set up, Yaggy -> Raven -> Tyrs and skip the EQ.

I find the EQ really adds a vail to the clarity. Looking at your room it looks to be very low damped and I imagine you are using the EQ to reduce the highs a bit. I get that but to see what the Raven can deliver try it without the EQ, I know my imagining and clarity is better with out my Loki in the mix. If you are using the EQ to reduce the room brightness you might try some wall treatments and a nice thick floor rug. But I fully understand the WAF too if that's part of the issue.

My Rack - impressions coming soon.




phono2024

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 7
Re: The new Revelation Raven Preamp
« Reply #102 on: 14 Mar 2025, 09:11 pm »
Hello Presb4,

Thanks for your suggestion re room treatment and rug.

Both the EQs are set with very little cut or boost to avoid saturation. Yes, to help with the sound as I do not have room treatment.
I will look into room treatment.

Yes, please share your joy with your Raven.

Thank you.

phono2024

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 7
Re: The new Revelation Raven Preamp
« Reply #103 on: 14 Mar 2025, 09:13 pm »
By the way, what is WAF?

Early B.

Re: The new Revelation Raven Preamp
« Reply #104 on: 14 Mar 2025, 09:23 pm »
By the way, what is WAF?

WAF = "wife acceptance factor"

phono2024

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 7
Re: The new Revelation Raven Preamp
« Reply #105 on: 14 Mar 2025, 09:40 pm »
Ha ha ha.

Yes, I will need her approval. I managed to convince her this time to allow me to buy the Raven.

Presb4

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 159
Re: The new Revelation Raven Preamp
« Reply #106 on: 15 Mar 2025, 12:52 am »
OK a few of my initial impressions as a new Raven owner.

Shipping:
The Pre was double boxed with soft foam surrounding it. I initially laughed when unpacking it cuz the foam felt like remnants of memory foam. I was like holy smokes and it reminded me of designing for the old egg drop competition in my Physics class. It was packaged and shipped in 3 days to my door.

Remote:
The remote has a very solid build and weight and is made of solid aluminum. It is also screwed together.





Tubes:
I got the least expensive set of the tube options. I have a bunch of NOS tubes and didn't think I would need any of the Shug brand tubes. I have spent some time tube rolling and comparing the Shug 6SN7 tubes to my selection of NOS 6SN7s and 6CG7s and can confidently say this, I am impressed by the Shaguang 6SN7 tube that shipped with this unit, they are very good.

Build:
There is nothing about this Pre that looks or feels cheap. The cherry base looks awesome. The fit and finish is clean, gap free and tight. All XLR and RCA connections on the back are top notch. I will be taking a look inside this weekend to check out the wiring job.

Operation:
So with the tubes in place, you press and hold the power button for around 3 secs to turn it on. The damper diodes light up first followed by the 6SN7 heaters followed by the 0D3 VR tubes. From power on to playing is around 20 - 25 Secs, I would guess.

Each time you turn on the Pre, the volume pot is automatically set to 00 (off). Turning the volume knob makes slight but audible clicks as it steps through the resistors. There are 64 steps. I wish it had 128 steps, but more on that later. Pressing the up down volume buttons on the remote, of course turns the volume up and down but the volume knob does not turn when using the remote. I have a minor gripe with this as it is nice to look up and see a volume knob position and have it match the volume you have it set at on the digital read out.
But like I said its minor gripe.

One thing I really like and was a surprise to me was how useful the dual mono volume control is. The remote has different volume buttons for the left and right channels in addition to the over all volume up and down adjustments. Once you set the unique volume settings for the left or right channel the gang volume control will increase the volume while still maintaining your desired delta between the two channels. Ok, so why is this a nice to have? Well say your tubes are section matched but from tube to tube one has a bit more or less gain than the other, well turn the left or right up or down to regain your stereo image into the center. Ok, maybe im the only one with miss matched tubes, well I also have a less than ideal room where one of my speakers is very near a corner where the other is not. The one in the corner gets more room gain than the other and this distorts my stereo image, but with the separate volume controls I am able to turn down the speaker closest to the corner of the room and all is good again. This is very handy and the first Pre I have had with this feature.

The power transformer and choke both run cooler than other tube equipment I own. This confirms the designers comments that they over designed components used in this pre for a long service life. After hours of operation the power transformer is 101F and the choke is at 86F in a room that is around 68F.

Well that's all I have for now. So far I am really enjoying the SQ of the Raven too, but more one that in a future post.





Downtheline

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 43
Re: The new Revelation Raven Preamp
« Reply #107 on: 15 Mar 2025, 03:30 am »
Mine resets the input to input 1 each time I turn it on. Is there a way to keep it on input 3?

Presb4

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 159
Re: The new Revelation Raven Preamp
« Reply #108 on: 15 Mar 2025, 04:08 am »
That's odd, my Raven retains the input selected from the previous listening session when I turn it back on. Maybe there is a firmware update to the KHOZMO input selector that can be applied to change that behavior?

marvda1

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 1870
  • freelance reviewer: The Sound Advocate
Re: The new Revelation Raven Preamp
« Reply #109 on: 15 Mar 2025, 05:39 am »
Will the Raven be at the 2025 Southwest Audio Fest in Texas?
Has anyone compared the Raven to the Dehavilland Ultraverve 3 preamp?

Presb4

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 159
Re: The new Revelation Raven Preamp
« Reply #110 on: 15 Mar 2025, 05:43 am »

dls123

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 138
    • Citation Restoration
Re: The new Revelation Raven Preamp
« Reply #111 on: 15 Mar 2025, 02:53 pm »
Mine resets the input to input 1 each time I turn it on. Is there a way to keep it on input 3?

It can be changed.  Send me a PM and I will describe how to do it.  You have to remove the bottom and get inside.....

Spatial Audio

Re: The new Revelation Raven Preamp
« Reply #112 on: 16 Mar 2025, 09:31 pm »
Mine resets the input to input 1 each time I turn it on. Is there a way to keep it on input 3?

The first iteration of the Raven did not have input selector memory. That was added to later Ravens based on customer feedback.

Presb4

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 159
Re: The new Revelation Raven Preamp
« Reply #113 on: 23 Mar 2025, 08:40 pm »


So, a number of AC users noted my comment on how I planned on opening the Raven and taking a peek inside and asked me to post photos of the inside. The designers of the Raven have in previous posts commented on the design and components inside the Raven and opening the bottom panel finds it exactly as they have described it.

But a picture is with a 1000 words, so I reached out to Spatial and asked if they minded if I posted a picture of the inside. They stated they had no issue with me posting a general overview photo, so here we are.
In this photo you can see the general lay out of the Raven. I have drawn a few colored arrows on the image to point to notable areas and my comments are below:

The RED arrow points to the AC side of the Raven. This is also called the dirty side in Amp design. This refers to the noise that the AC can cause inside the enclosure and it is generally accepted best practice to isolate it away from the low voltage signal side of the amp, the designers have done a very good job here in the chosen layout. All wires that carry AC and even ones that don’t, as standard, are twisted to help cancel out AC noise. In the center of this section you can see the central star grounding point, also a best practice.

All non-PCB locations of the Raven are Point to Point wired and soldered. Looking over all of the soldered connection points and using a DVOM, I was not able to see any cold solder joints nor did I measure any. To the builder and QC of my build, good job, and thank you.

The BLUE arrow points to the aluminum divider that transverses the entire length and depth of the Raven, yes, its grounded as it should be. This helps shield the AC side from the DC signal side of the Raven. This is also a best practice.
 
The GREEN arrow points the location of the Input signal transformers build by Cinemag. As the designers have stated, the Raven is a transformer coupled preamp. The input transformer build by Cinemag USA is also encased in a shielded and grounded housing. This is the point where the signal enters the Raven, any noise picked up here would get amplified, they have taken great care to reduce / eliminate that risk here with the extra shielding.

The LAVENDAR arrow points to the location of the output transformers built by Cinemag. The output coupling transformers replace the need for a coupling capacitor and the (coloration) they can cause. Both the input and output transformers are located as close as possible to the input and output jacks to limit the wire length. This is also a best practice.

The PINK arrow points to one of the many film capacitors used throughout the Raven as power filters. All are over rated for the voltages they see. This choice shows the designer wanted reliable, long life and high DCR filter caps for the best possible filtering. No electrolytics used here, these film caps are the best choice for power filtering and not inexpensive.

The large green looking PCB board on the signal side of the Raven is the Khozmo volume control ladder resistor and input selection relay circuit. As this Preamp is designed as a dual mono circuit, there are two of them, one on top of the other. 

As you can see, the bottom panel is well ventilated, this, in combination with the vent holes drilled in the top plate ensures that the Raven operates cooler than most. Once again ensuring long trouble-free life. I have built or repaired a number tube amps and guitar amps in my life and can say the Raven meets or beats the care I would have put into one of my own designs. I am proud to own such a quality product. Thank you, Lynn and Don, excellent job.




« Last Edit: 27 Mar 2025, 01:54 am by Presb4 »

mkrawcz

  • Full Member
  • Posts: 577
Re: The new Revelation Raven Preamp
« Reply #114 on: 23 Mar 2025, 10:06 pm »
I see Neurochrome soft start and regulators. Nice.

dls123

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 138
    • Citation Restoration
Re: The new Revelation Raven Preamp
« Reply #115 on: 25 Mar 2025, 12:56 am »
Hi
I designed the layout.  Just as a point of order,  the shield bracket between power supply side and signal side is steel, which provides RF shielding that aluminum would not.  Hope you are enjoying the sound quality 😊
Cheers,
Don

dls123

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 138
    • Citation Restoration
Re: The new Revelation Raven Preamp
« Reply #116 on: 25 Mar 2025, 02:36 pm »
One last thing.  If you look, you can see a naked foil resistor pair on the Khozmo attenuator.   At any volume, the signal passes through a single naked foil resistor.  That is the only thing in the signal path.  So it is like having a volume control without having a volume control.  Also, only the RCA inputs pass through the input transformer.  Balanced XLR inputs go through the Khozmo for attenuation, and then straight to the tube grids.   The Blackbird amps are the same.  So if you have a balanced source, then you go straight through to tube grids.

Thanks to all who stopped by at the SW Audio Fest for a conversation.  I had 5 or 6 folks tell me that our room sounded the best to them of any at the show.  That makes my day:)

Presb4

  • Jr. Member
  • Posts: 159
Re: The new Revelation Raven Preamp
« Reply #117 on: 27 Mar 2025, 01:36 am »
One last thing.  If you look, you can see a naked foil resistor pair on the Khozmo attenuator.   At any volume, the signal passes through a single naked foil resistor.  That is the only thing in the signal path.  So it is like having a volume control without having a volume control.  Also, only the RCA inputs pass through the input transformer.  Balanced XLR inputs go through the Khozmo for attenuation, and then straight to the tube grids.   The Blackbird amps are the same.  So if you have a balanced source, then you go straight through to tube grids.

Thanks to all who stopped by at the SW Audio Fest for a conversation.  I had 5 or 6 folks tell me that our room sounded the best to them of any at the show.  That makes my day:)

Hey Don, can you elaborate more on the advantages of the naked foil resistors. I haven't used them in any of my own projects. Is it built like a carbon film resistor but in lieu of the carbon film, there is thin foil that is spiral cut to make the resistive path? What's the advantages? Better thermal stability? Also I see in the manual it states 6SN7 tubes, but to be clear are the voltages on the plate low enough for long term 6SN7GT's or should I only use GTA and GTB versions?

My Raven is sounding better and better each day that I use it and it was already the best sounding pre amp I have had in my system starting on day one. I have almost 70 hour on it now.

dls123

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 138
    • Citation Restoration
Re: The new Revelation Raven Preamp
« Reply #118 on: 27 Mar 2025, 04:19 am »
Hey Don, can you elaborate more on the advantages of the naked foil resistors. I haven't used them in any of my own projects. Is it built like a carbon film resistor but in lieu of the carbon film, there is thin foil that is spiral cut to make the resistive path? What's the advantages? Better thermal stability? Also I see in the manual it states 6SN7 tubes, but to be clear are the voltages on the plate low enough for long term 6SN7GT's or should I only use GTA and GTB versions?

My Raven is sounding better and better each day that I use it and it was already the best sounding pre amp I have had in my system starting on day one. I have almost 70 hour on it now.

Honestly, I have no idea how naked foil resistors are made.  I tried them due to all the hype maybe 4 or 5 years ago and they have essentially no sound.  About as close to no resistor as you can get.  So I have stuck with them.  Carbon films and comps have their softer sound.  Metal films have their sound.  Naked foils, at least only a single one, has pretty much no sound.  So I use them in the attenuator circuit.

The 6SN7 is run at about 150V plate and 1.6 W dissipation on each plate.  Very conservative, but hot enough to stay biased where we want it.  The original 6SN7 was rated at 2.5 W per plate, so you can use any variant you want as the later and modern ones are 5W per plate and 7 W or so with both plates.   They are cruising along....

Cloud.sessions

  • Industry Participant
  • Posts: 40
Re: The new Revelation Raven Preamp
« Reply #119 on: 27 Mar 2025, 06:01 am »
Naked foils are a singular foil with a trace etched out in them to give them specific properties and resistance. While a film resistor is a rolled up bundle of film with a groove spiraling the film to give the desired resistance. Naked foils have incredibly low inductance while also retaining very low rise and settling times. Giving them a very transparent nature. You can read about them here https://vpgfoilresistors.com/var they have many wonderful properties that make them particularly good at being a very transparent resistor.

150v is perfect for the raven I’ve played with it a bit and at 150v the raven sounds the most organic with the best flow. Higher up (200v) it starts to sound a bit harder and less organic. Don definitely nailed it.