[Presb4]

I am looking for some new Schiit.

I have 1 Vidar 2 for stereo HT use but I am looking for more power and better dynamics. Should I pick up another Vidar 2 a try them as monos with my GR Brutes or should I just upgrade to the Tyr's and sell my one Vidar 2?

Im sure some of you out there have had this question or have already demoed these combos and would love to know what your opinions are.

[corndog71]

I haven’t heard the Vidar but the Tyrs are fantastic amps.  Effortless control, air, and dynamics.  Best amps I’ve ever owned.

[Presb4]

I haven’t heard the Vidar but the Tyrs are fantastic amps.  Effortless control, air, and dynamics.  Best amps I’ve ever owned.

Thanks for the comment Corndog.
What other amps have you had with your system that you directly compared to the Tyr's and what was the most significant changes. What pre-Amp are you using with them. I have a Schiit Freya+ that I would be using with the Tyr's, any comment on that combo? Also as the Tyr's run in a semi Class A bias, can you comment on how hot they get, how much they heat your room compared to other class AB amps or tube amps you may have.
Thanks.

[SRP SRP]

The Tyrs are tempting. They will likely be my next amp purchase. I have a couple of Vidars running nx studios.

You can always return them if you aren’t blown away…

[Presb4]

Can you speak to the difference between running one Vidar vs running 2 as mono blocks and your NX Studios?

[Hobbsmeerkat]

We had the Tyrs over in the listening room for a bit while Danny's big chip amps were out of commission and he was quite impressed with them.
I didn't really get a chance to sit down and listen to them tho.

[Presb4]

We had the Tyrs over in the listening room for a bit while Danny's big chip amps were out of commission and he was quite impressed with them.
I didn't really get a chance to sit down and listen to them tho.

Hobbs were you all using a Dodd Pre with that set up or something else?

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Yup the same Dodd DAC & Pre as always.

[corndog71]

Thanks for the comment Corndog.
What other amps have you had with your system that you directly compared to the Tyr's and what was the most significant changes. What pre-Amp are you using with them. I have a Schiit Freya+ that I would be using with the Tyr's, any comment on that combo? Also as the Tyr's run in a semi Class A bias, can you comment on how hot they get, how much they heat your room compared to other class AB amps or tube amps you may have.
Thanks.

Ok, to be fair I haven’t had a ton of amps to compare but I’ve been in this hobby long enough to know a good thing.
Previously I was using a pair of highly modified 140 watt tube amps which I thought sounded pretty great.  Tyr just walked all over them.  I’ve also used Marantz, Denon, and Outlaw receivers.  Marantz is my favorite of the bunch but they’re still receivers with lots of compromises. 

My main preamp is a Gain Cell Dac from PS Audio.  One of the most transparent preamps I’ve heard under $2k.  The built in dac is not as good as my Schiit Yggdrasil.  It’s a great preamp though and has balanced outputs.

The Tyrs run pretty cool actually.  I rarely get to crank them up but I’ve never felt them get hot.  I’ve had them on for most of a day while gaming, playing music at a moderate level and watching tv and they still never got hot.  I think my Yggdrasil dac runs warmer than Tyr.

[AllanS]

Ok, to be fair I haven’t had a ton of amps to compare but I’ve been in this hobby long enough to know a good thing.
Previously I was using a pair of highly modified 140 watt tube amps which I thought sounded pretty great.  Tyr just walked all over them.  I’ve also used Marantz, Denon, and Outlaw receivers.  Marantz is my favorite of the bunch but they’re still receivers with lots of compromises. 

My main preamp is a Gain Cell Dac from PS Audio.  One of the most transparent preamps I’ve heard under $2k.  The built in dac is not as good as my Schiit Yggdrasil.  It’s a great preamp though and has balanced outputs.

The Tyrs run pretty cool actually.  I rarely get to crank them up but I’ve never felt them get hot.  I’ve had them on for most of a day while gaming, playing music at a moderate level and watching tv and they still never got hot.  I think my Yggdrasil dac runs warmer than Tyr.

Interesting comparison.  I have a GCD paired with PS Audio M1200 and am contemplating a change.  I've not considered the Tyr because they're beasts and the thought of $200 shipping per amp scares me a bit.
I'd hesitate to audition the Tyr because the Ragnarok 2 I had tended to be a bit on the bright side which I do not like.
Considering your Marantz preference and tube experience how would you characterize the Tyr sound?

[jmimac351]

I have owned tubes for over 20 years... both in terms of Joule VZN-80 OTL tube amp, and all tube Joule LAP150 preamp / phone stage - point to point wired stuff.  I also have a Joule Electra VAMP integrated with tube input / Mosfet output.

Late last year, I built an all Ayre front end with Ayre QB-9 Twenty DAC, Ayre KX-5 Twenty Preamp, and Ayre VX-5 Twenty amp.  The reason I did that as "a tube guy" was because I did quite a bit of digging / reading / probing of the late Charles Hansen of Ayre.  Charlie was also a "tube guy", but he didn't like some of the work that comes along with tubes.  His goal was the best of solid state and the best of tubes. Prior to his passing, he was pretty well of the opinion he'd gotten there.  I'll say this, the Ayre gear is the most musical solid state I've ever heard, and I suspect it will take something very unique to displace it.  There is no way I will sell any of my Ayre gear prior to having something in-house that clearly betters it in terms of musicality (good luck).  A premise for all of the Ayre gear is Zero Negative Feedback / Balanced throughout.  The Zero Negative Feedback is the big deal... for a "Tube Guy". 

Prior to the Ayre setup coming to town, I was playing with Magnepan 3.7i speakers and a Marantz PM-11S2 integrated that I'd owned prior to the Ayre setup. I wanted more horsepower, and had a chance to trade the Marantz for a Krell FPB-300 amp - 110lbs monster.  It was more power / control than the Marantz, but they both sounded way too "thick", compared to the Ayre gear.  The Ayre gear combined detail AND musicality.  With the "Twenty" upgrades to the Ayre line, there are increased dynamics. 

The point I'm rambling to get to is this... based on my experience, I will be very skeptical of an amp that has too much feedback / high damping factor / too low output impedance.  I want feedback OUT of the system, as much as possible. 

The Joule gear I mentioned previously... the OTL amp has a dial to continuously vary the amount of feedback, all the way down to zero.  The Joule VAMP integrated has a Damping Factor of 15, if my memory serves me (I've calculated it based on Output Impedance).  That experience has taught me to want feedback out of the system... led me down the path to Ayre...

As for the Vidar / Tyr... I went over to the Head-Fi forum as asked the question for the exact Output Impedance #... because I'm curious.  I've seen and seriously considered ordering the Tyr units when I still had my Maggies.  The Vidar 2 damping factor is shown as ">100".  Tyr is listed as ">200".  Compare that to some Class D amp, Parasound amp, etc... which are over 1,000.  If Jason Stoddard replies with the #'s, I'll share.  This is one big difference between a company like Schiit selling "value" stuff, and GR-Research.  I can call Iowa Park and "ask The Man". Can't do that with Schiit.

I would love to hear the Tyr amps.  It doesn't have a ton of damping factor AND it is a unique design with the huge input choke.  It also would not surprise me if a second Vidar 2 was a great ticket.  That is a clean sheet design, and it's too bad a conversation with Jason Stoddard can't be had about it.

Why bring this up at all?  Speakers with a "High Q" design have "built-in" damping.  If you have an amp that wants to damp the speaker with higher damping factor (control) it may sound "thin"... not as "musical".  I seem to recall that the Eminence woofer is High'Q??? What's the best amp needs to be put into context of not just "what sounds best", but how that amp is going to interact with the electrical properties of the speaker. 

If it were me, I would be picking an amp with as high output impedance as possible for use with the Brutes.  Of course, I could be complete wrong.  Danny / Hobbs may have some feedback about the "High Q" thing.   

My Joule Electra VAMP in "The Big Rig" right now...

[jmimac351]

We had the Tyrs over in the listening room for a bit while Danny's big chip amps were out of commission and he was quite impressed with them.
I didn't really get a chance to sit down and listen to them tho.

I'm glad you shared this.  Jason Stoddard has mentioned several times that they wanted to build the Tyr amps for a long, long time.  He says they are his "End Game" amps.  Glad to hear that the experience was positive and that they seem to have panned out.

Did Danny listen to the Tyr amps on the NX-Treme speakers?

[corndog71]

Interesting comparison.  I have a GCD paired with PS Audio M1200 and am contemplating a change.  I've not considered the Tyr because they're beasts and the thought of $200 shipping per amp scares me a bit.
I'd hesitate to audition the Tyr because the Ragnarok 2 I had tended to be a bit on the bright side which I do not like.
Considering your Marantz preference and tube experience how would you characterize the Tyr sound?

Tyr throws a wide and deep soundstage.  I do not think of them as bright at all.  They seem very well balanced.  I’ve tried them with all of my speakers and they drove them all well.  They definitely work better with better gear.  They’re both fast with dynamics and sublime with mellower music.  Can you tell I really like them?

I just remembered something.  Earlier this year I heard a couple of Hegel integrated amps driving Mofi Sourcepoint 10 and Amphion speakers.  They both were killer combos.  Very transparent with big lifelike soundstaging.  In comparison to Tyr the Hegel amps initially seemed to be better overall but they were different in a particular way.  They were more forward sounding.  While imaging was impressive, the soundstage was like a big wall at the same distance as the speakers.  Maybe it was the speakers.  But it was a very different experience vs the Tyrs.

The Tyrs make drum kits sit 6’ behind the speakers.  I hear lots of air and space in recordings.  They make piano sound more real.  They never seem to run out of steam.  Granted all of my speakers are fairly easy to drive.

I shot a video of them playing some Star Wars music: 
https://youtu.be/9Ao_taobq44?si=kHunQWYHOHTxPrIV

[AllanS]

Tyr throws a wide and deep soundstage.  I do not think of them as bright at all.  They seem very well balanced.

Earlier this year I heard a couple of Hegel integrated amps driving Mofi Sourcepoint 10 and Amphion speakers.  They both were killer combos.  Very transparent with big lifelike soundstaging.  In comparison to Tyr the Hegel amps initially seemed to be better overall but they were different in a particular way.  They were more forward sounding.  While imaging was impressive, the soundstage was like a big wall at the same distance as the speakers.

Thanks much for your thoughts. 
I’ve never heard any Hegel gear but have heard comments that what they offer is superb but lacking depth. 

[Presb4]

Thank you all for your input.

Jmimac351, I especially appreciated the comments around the dampening factor needing to work with the speaker Q factor. I have read other information in the past provided by John Devor speaking to the Dampening/Q effects but had forgotten it until it was mentioned here again. I see your point that using an amp with high dampening in the 1000+ with a speaker that is also high Q would be to much for musicality and create a more thin overall sound, maybe even clinical. 

My Dynaco ST-70 has a dampening factor of around 40 I think, and when connected to the Brutes, the bass sounds very good. My Schiit Vidar 2 controls the Brutes bass better then the ST-70 for sure. But if the Vidar2 was a perfect 10 at controlling the Brutes, then my ST-70 would be an 8, which I am surprised to say being thats its a tube amp.

I agree that the 15 day free trial is not anywhere close to free once you pay to ship the Tyrs to you and if you dont like them, pay again to ship them back. That would suck. But I have read such good reviews from owners who have first hand experience here on AC and over on HeadFi that it sounds like low risk.

I went ahead and placed an order for the Tyr's tonight and will report back on how they compare with the Vidar 2 and my GR Brute combo once I have some time with them.
 

[jmimac351]

Cool!  I bet you'll like them.

[AllanS]

Good to know you learned enough to pull the trigger.  Looking forward to your impressions.  Now sit and wait…

[AllanS]

Why bring this up at all?  Speakers with a "High Q" design have "built-in" damping.  If you have an amp that wants to damp the speaker with higher damping factor (control) it may sound "thin"... not as "musical".  I seem to recall that the Eminence woofer is High'Q??? What's the best amp needs to be put into context of not just "what sounds best", but how that amp is going to interact with the electrical properties of the speaker. 

This is the kind of stuff that makes this hobby both fascinating and frustrating.  In the context of amps I’m familiar with the term damping but not the details.  It never crossed my mind but it makes complete sense that speakers would have their own damping characteristics and that too much of a good thing is bad.

[jmimac351]

This is the kind of stuff that makes this hobby both fascinating and frustrating.  In the context of amps I’m familiar with the term damping but not the details.  It never crossed my mind but it makes complete sense that speakers would have their own damping characteristics and that too much of a good thing is bad.

Danny mentions it here and there in videos regarding different drivers. I believe the N"Q" drivers have that quality, which makes them ideal for OB applications.  If you look at the drivers on the GR site, you'll see that the NQ drivers have a higher Q.  I don't know that any of this is applicable to the Brute speaker. I'm sharing more from my personal preference for Zero / Minimal Negative Feedback in amplification, as I find it to be more musical... and it is why NOT ALL AMPS SOUND THE SAME, regardless of what some have convinced themselves to believe.  It's also why I think having a separate subwoofer is essential... let the main speakers be musical with a musical amp... let the subs do the grunt work with a grunt amp.  The application is right there... Servo sub amp is stopping / starting the speaker... there is a "Damping" switch on the amp.  I don't want any of that stuff on my midrange drivers... let them sing (not ring). 

I could be completely wrong, but you get what you pay for, but based on my I hear at my house, it doesn't sound like I am wrong.   

[Danny Richie]

The Tyr mono blocks aren't going to dethrone my reference amps or any Dodd tube amps, but they did sound really good. I was surprised by just how good they sounded, especially for the price. I'd recommend them.