[zlib]

Hi, guys!

I was using NX-Studio as front speakers in home theater. They are certainly great in this configuration with a sub, but now I'm considering NX-Studio as main speakers for music. I've tried them already with SVS SB-1000 subwoofer and this combo couldn't compete with proper full-range speakers in overall musical quality. I believe, the main reason is less than ideal integration with the sub which couldn't provide enveloping sound in bass region.

Are there good alternatives for GR Research open baffle subs (they are just too massive for my room) for pairing with NX-Studio? Is it even possible to compete with good full-range speakers?

Maybe I should consider NX-Otica if bass-midbass integration is so important for me? But my listening position is about 7 feet from speakers — is it enough to get whole integral sound from so many drivers?

[Danny Richie]

They will not only easily complete with full range speakers, they can exceed them in some ways and for several reasons.

Having the lower end separated and handed off to a separate sub or set of subs adds a lot of flexibility in balancing out the over all in room response.

The problem that you have is that you are using a mid-level home theater sub, and not something that will match well with the speakers.

We do have sealed servo subs that offer a lot of placement flexibility, speed, and control that will blend really well with the speakers. You can also place them just about anywhere in the room, and they don't take up much floor space.

You might also consider a set of double, open baffle, servo subs, and just lay them on their sides between the two speakers. With that combination you'll have a response that is flat down to 20Hz, and you'll never know that there are separate subs. It will sound like a three dimension reproduction.

[BrandonB]

They will not only easily complete with full range speakers, they can exceed them in some ways and for several reasons.

Having the lower end separated and handed off to a separate sub or set of subs adds a lot of flexibility in balancing out the over all in room response.

The problem that you have is that you are using a mid-level home theater sub, and not something that will match well with the speakers.

We do have sealed servo subs that offer a lot of placement flexibility, speed, and control that will blend really well with the speakers. You can also place them just about anywhere in the room, and they don't take up much floor space.

You might also consider a set of double, open baffle, servo subs, and just lay them on their sides between the two speakers. With that combination you'll have a response that is flat down to 20Hz, and you'll never know that there are separate subs. It will sound like a three dimension reproduction.

If you are laying  the OB subs on their sides in between the two main speakers how far from the wall do they need to be?  Also is it possible to stack them on each other while on their side?  I guess stacking the same as standing up and pushing them together.

[Danny Richie]

If you are laying  the OB subs on their sides in between the two main speakers how far from the wall do they need to be?  Also is it possible to stack them on each other while on their side?  I guess stacking the same as standing up and pushing them together.

Open baffle subs need to be three feet or more out into the room just like all open baffle speakers.

If placing them in the middle of the sound stage it is best to keep the height down to a single woofer, but you can line up as many as you want.

[NoahH]

I have and love the GR ob subs and heavily endorse. I will also actively malign the SVS subs; folks talk them up, but I had dual SB-4000s and they were awful. REL makes great subs and would be my first and last stop if not doing a DIY kit with GR.

[Early B.]

I will also actively malign the SVS subs; folks talk them up, but I had dual SB-4000s and they were awful.

This statement reminds me of the time (over 20 years ago) when I initially joined an audio forum and SVS subs had entered the market. Everyone praised them. I went to hear a friend's home theater system with an SVS sub and it sounded awful. I was dumb (or naive?) enough to say that as my initial post and they damn near ran me out of there. Turns out that the original SVS subs had zero bracing!!! And boy, they sounded like the drivers were bouncing around inside the cabinet. Just awful. I learned three lessons from that experience -- the masses don't have good ears, don't believe the hype, and speak the truth even though you'll probably get flamed for it.   

[nlitworld]

In reading through all the different threads talking about NX-Studios having a bass section, there is certainly interest in making these more of a full range option of sorts. What I'd really be hoping for is something like a Rythmik FM8 sealed box dual 8in sub "base" but as a diy kit, with better bracing, lots of no-rez, and with the A370 amps rather than just the hx amps.

...in a perfect world that is.

[wgraft5]

In reading through all the different threads talking about NX-Studios having a bass section, there is certainly interest in making these more of a full range option of sorts. What I'd really be hoping for is something like a Rythmik FM8 sealed box dual 8in sub "base" but as a diy kit, with better bracing, lots of no-rez, and with the A370 amps rather than just the hx amps.

...in a perfect world that is.

I asked about this several months ago. There is a market for something like this, even if it was passive.

[Tyson]

Why in the world would someone speak poorly of Danny?  He's a genuinely nice guy.  He's also an objectivist (measurements matter), a subjectivist (parts quality matter) and he's fully transparent - he puts his work out for the world to see. 

[Early B.]

I sent a speaker to Danny recently.  The speaker was a mess and I knew it was a mess (I could smell the chicken shyte).  When I shared what I was doing with two different "audiophile" friends, they spoke poorly of Danny and told me it was a mistake.  Well, I'd come to my own conclusion and sent the speaker anyway... and boy am I glad I did.  I got a taste of the knowledge and what I'd be buying into when I finally decide on what speaker to order.  I also found out first hand what a kind and decent guy Danny is.  Now, based on my own experience with something, guess what I think of the judgement of my "audiophile" friends who've never dealt with GR Research and cast aspersions instead?

There are many different types of audiophiles and most of us don't have a damn clue what we're talking about!! This is particularly true for the DIY crowd. Every armchair audiophile thinks he can design a better speaker than the professionals. It takes many years of experimentation (and plenty of wasted money) to learn what works and who to listen to. For instance, there are only three people on this forum who I think know what they're talking about 95% of the time. For everyone else, I read these threads for entertainment purposes only.     

[VinceT]

I am firmly in the don't know poop camp, that is why I am here

All I know is when I do what is said around here, my stuff always sounds better and I get results!

People need to form their own opinions on things and people. For example, all the crap talk about the XLS Encores - they are an excellent speaker if executed correctly and punch way above their price point. I had the speakers before all the drama on the other interweb forums came out claiming they are bad speakers. They are excellent when constructed correctly with the right parts and processes and allowed to break in properly. If I hadn't had them before they other stuff came out, I probably would have second thoughts about getting them. It's a shame people have to be that way.

[Early B.]

People need to form their own opinions on things and people. For example, all the crap talk about the XLS Encores - they are an excellent speaker if executed correctly and punch way above their price point. I had the speakers before all the drama on the other interweb forums came out claiming they are bad speakers. They are excellent when constructed correctly with the right parts and processes and allowed to break in properly. If I hadn't had them before they other stuff came out, I probably would have second thoughts about getting them. It's a shame people have to be that way.

Yeah, and the other thing to keep in mind is you're often getting opinions from audiophiles all over the spectrum whose opinions change daily. For instance, last year I had a Class D amp and I thought it was the greatest sounding amp in the world. Ask me today and I'll say it sounded like crap. You have the deep pocket audiophiles and anything under $20 grand is garbage. Then there's the newbies who think they know what sounds good but you can't tell them they're clueless. Then there's the budget audiophiles who think expensive gear is for the easily duped. Then there's the old guys who are stuck in their ways. Finally, there's the tech guys who swear by measurements, but don't know the definition of "objective" if you chiseled it on their forehead.     

Back to the subject -- the OP asked, "Are there good alternatives for GR Research open baffle subs for pairing with NX-Studio?" The answer is, "No." Don't even consider pairing "high-end monitors" like NX-Studios with anything less than the best sounding subs you can buy.

[zlib]

Back to the subject -- the OP asked, "Are there good alternatives for GR Research open baffle subs for pairing with NX-Studio?" The answer is, "No." Don't even consider pairing "high-end monitors" like NX-Studios with anything less than the best sounding subs you can buy.

Rythmik F12G is not good enough too?

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Rythmik F12G is not good enough too?

The F12G is essentially the same as our "sealed servo plus" kits, (same woofer & amp) the only difference is the cabinet construction, and will work very well with the NX-Studios.

[Tyson]

I’m’ve heard the box servo subs and the OB servo subs  both are great.  If you have the $$ then go for dual OB subs as stands.  Or you could do a single OB servo sub between the speakers.  If you are trying to save money or you can only put the sub in a corner then the box  servo sub is great.  I have a buddy that runs 4 of them in his system in a swarm setup and it’s pretty awesome.

[Tyson]

So, the rest of the story...

Example 1:
I asked "why do you say that, give me an example?" to one... his answer, after several seconds and clearly surprised at being challenged to support his claim: "Well, he recommended some complex crossover for XYZ speaker claiming it was better"
My Assessment: Yer full of it, buddy.

Example 2: When challenged "why?"... he had no response, and then proceeded to convince me why I needed to pay him 10X the value for a pair of speakers he didn't think I knew about.
My Assessment: Snake.

My point in sharing this is - this... we should be careful about painting any brand with a broad brush (well, unless you watch the latest video starting with a K .  And I agree... "opinions change daily"... and perhaps what isn't said "we are a looney bunch, to varying degrees".  But it's a fun ride!  I know that Danny is used to shots being taken at him, he knows what he knows, and this stuff goes with the territory when the truth hurts feelings. 

Man, you are right, some audiophiles have some kind of weird brand loyalty thing going on.  Well, I guess it's not just audio, I see the same thing with cars, too.

[Early B.]

Danny, this has probably been addressed elsewhere, but I wonder if you can clarify the "distance from front wall" thing for open baffle.  Are you saying 3' to the front FACE of the baffle, or rear back dimension of "Any" OB speaker, etc?

I can give 3' from the front wall to the front face of the baffle, and I can treat / diffuse the front wall as much as I want. The rear edge of the speaker would be much closer to the front wall than 3'.  I understand that "more is better" for that space, but is 3' to the front face of the baffle with a well treated / diffused front wall such that it would be a "bad idea" for OB speaker option?

I'm not Danny, but just wanted to provide a perspective for you --- three feet is a guideline only. My first OB dual servo sub was against the right wall next to a sofa. Nevertheless, it still sounded much better than any box sub I heard. Since you'll never have ideal conditions, buy the best gear you can and work with it.

Another thought -- for critical listening, you can always pull the subs out into the room and push them back when you're done.   

[Hobbsmeerkat]

Danny, this has probably been addressed elsewhere, but I wonder if you can clarify the "distance from front wall" thing for open baffle.  Are you saying 3' to the front FACE of the baffle, or rear back dimension of "Any" OB speaker, etc?

I can give 3' from the front wall to the front face of the baffle, and I can treat / diffuse the front wall as much as I want. The rear edge of the speaker would be much closer to the front wall than 3'.  I understand that "more is better" for that space, but is 3' to the front face of the baffle with a well treated / diffused front wall such that it would be a "bad idea" for OB speaker option?

It's 3 feet from the baffle of the speaker

For the subs, 3 feet would be from where the drivers are mounted in the middle of the tower, not the front face.
For the X-Statiks or NX-Treme it would be 3 feet from from the front of the speaker.

I've asked for 8" as well.  This would be like a Revel Studio2 speaker.

The 8" exist and this is doable. The problem is I think it would be project #86 for the crew in TX.

We may to look at having Rythmik make some custom 8" woofers for sealed use, but yeah, we've currently got several irons in the fire we need to get out the door first.

[BrandonB]

We may to look at having Rythmik make some custom 8" woofers for sealed use, but yeah, we've currently got several irons in the fire we need to get out the door first.

It does seem like you have allot going on.  I can count four speakers you are  working on and they are all very interesting.  The Bully, Beast, NX-center channel and NX-Otica with the 8in Servo's.  Did I miss anything?

[Hobbsmeerkat]

It does seem like you have allot going on.  I can count four speakers you are  working on and they are all very interesting.  The Bully, Beast, NX-center channel and NX-Otica with the 8in Servo's.  Did I miss anything?

We've got a couple new project ideas that we're tinkering with.
I've also got a personal project that will be using some high-end drivers that I'm excited to play around with.
I should have a test cabinet for that pretty soon.