[newzooreview]

I stupidly plugged 12v into my Allo USB Signature that takes 5v in. Burning electronics smell and fried streamer. 

I need a streamer for Roon that outputs USB and is not full of bells and whistles. <$500.

A plain Raspberry Pi has terrible USB out; really noisy.

I Switched to my iFi Zen Stream and it does not output USB to my DAC when using Roon. Tried everything. It seems to just do SPDIF with Roon, and that does not sound good with my DAC.

I'm not interested in a Bluesound Node, Allo has been out of stock all year on the USB Signature, and HoloAudio Red is out of stock (and a bit too expensive for a secondary system).

I prefer something that's just dedicated to Roon with USB out and has better USB out than a stock Raspberry Pi. Maybe it doesn't exist now that the Allo USB Signature is gone.

But maybe I'm unaware of new good things?

[Pez]

In all honesty, I’d up your price point a smidge and buy the Holo Red streamer: https://www.kitsunehifi.com/product/holoaudio-red-ddc-network-streamer/

It’ll take some time to get due to the insanely high demand, but friggin worth it. Holo gear is pure gold.

[JackD]

You might want to visit the almost 300 page Zen Stream thread over at Head-Fi as there are two employees who frequent the thread and might be able to help you troubleshoot what's going on with your ZS.  I personally know of multiple people streaming via USB using Roon with no problem.  Have you tried a complete factory reset on the Zen Stream?  There is also a step by step guideline on Head-Fi for that. 

[Pez]

I doubt there’s any coming back from what he described. I did the same damn thing to a Zen Blue Bluetooth thingy and iFi said it was toast. Doesn’t hurt to ask though.

[JackD]

He didn't fry the Zen he fried the Allo.  So fixing his Zen Stream problem is possible even if it takes a complete factory reset and starting over with it.  Much cheaper than buying a new device. 

[Pez]

Thanks for clarifying I misread.

[nlitworld]

You could also look at HAL MS-6
Quick peek here
Full post here

For a cost effective, small form factor option it really does the trick.

[newzooreview]

Thank you for all the good suggestions.

This SoTM basic USB streaming box might do the trick for $450.

https://sotm-usa.com/collections/sotm-ultra/products/sms-200-neo-network-player

Yes, I fried the Allo USB Signature, not the Zen Stream.

Yes, I did a factory reset on the Zen Stream. That got the Zen Stream to show up in Roon with SPDIF output. It frankly sounds bad. Before I fried it the Allo USB was sounding open and detailed. The Zen Stream on coax (with a $1000 coax cable from a former version of my main system) sounded harsh and congested.

At one point I had the Zen Stream working in it's mode 1 (AIO) with Roon via USB. Now that does not work. In it's mode 2 (Roon exclusive) it only ever worked via coax.

I am not surprised there's a 300-page thread on the thing. It's a horrific interface with no updates in more than a year and no indication in the product literature that Roon exclusive mode (a huge selling point) disables USB output. That was confirmed to me by iFi tech support, and they were exceptionally indifferent to the concern (basically just a shrug).

But the SoTM looks like a better approach overall. I might hold off and upgrade the whole secondary (headphone) system, but SoTM is one possibility.

I did open up the Allo and there is nothing obvious. Putting the correct power on it gives me lights in the front, but it won't boot up. I fried something in the power circuitry for sure.

Thanks again for all the suggestions.

It's surprising that there is so little out there for ethernet in to USB out for Roon. The microRendu is up around $1000 now, while the Allo was very nice for $250.

[AllanS]

The NuPrime Omnia Stream Mini may be some something to glance at https://nuprimeaudio.com/product/omnia-stream-mini/ It’s likely an immediate write off as it isn’t Roon cert or tested that I’m aware of.  I asked the question in a thread and was told it will play with Roon.

[mcgsxr]

While the Raspi3 does have a reputation for bad USB output the Raspi4 fixed that.

I own both.

Currently using Raspi4 running Volumio USB out to my Wadia DAC.  Happy with it. 

[newzooreview]

Thank you.

The NuPrime looks pretty good, but yes, the absence of USB digital output and the lack of information about Roon support rule it out in my case.

I setup a Rasberry Pi4 streamer with Ropieee a couple of years ago, and it was giving me regular dropouts with 192/24 files. It was connected directly to my switch via ethernet and changing USB cables didn't help. Using the same ethernet connection and very good USB cables, the Allo USB signature had no difficulties at all with any resolution.

I may fire up the Pi4 streamer again before I try the SoTM. Maybe Ropieee fixed something in the last couple of years or the gremlins will not show up again. Thank you for suggesting it.

[Tyson]

Why not just build out a NUC server?  It’s super easy and more robust than the Pi server.

[Rusty Jefferson]

...It's surprising that there is so little out there for ethernet in to USB out for Roon. The microRendu is up around $1000 now, while the Allo was very nice for $250.

That's the Ultra Rendu I believe @ $1k, the micro is nla I believe. There's a few Micro Rendu on Hifi Shark with power supplies for under $500.

[newzooreview]

Thanks. I set up a RoonROCK server on a NUC. It has a linear power supply and is connected by USB to the Holo May DAC.

As I mentioned to someone in a Message today: "Tim at Kitsune said I should connect the May directly to the NUC. I had tried an Auralic Aries G 2.1, a Denafrips Gaia, and an Allo Digi One Signature (with coax output). Connecting the May directly to the NUC sounded better than any of those. I was surprised, but Tim said the USB receiver on the May was proprietary and exceptionally good. Adding the iFi devices did not make an audible difference at the time, but I have not A/B checked them since I got the Puritan and Groundmaster."

I would like to try the Holo Red with HDMI out to the May, but I wrote to Tim at Kitsune a couple of days ago, and they are stuck waiting for supply chain issues to clear. They had stockpiled parts expecting they could weather supply chain hiccups, but the delays have exceeded their stockpiles. He has parts for repairs on hand and very reasonably is keeping those to the side for existing customers.

I think what Roon says is likely excellent advice for the majority of DACs with off-the-shelf USB receivers. And it is something I want to explore in the future with the May, but Round 1 of that testing brought me to the current configuration.

[newzooreview]

Why not just build out a NUC server?  It’s super easy and more robust than the Pi server.

I was looking at the Roon Bridge downloads on the Roon website, and as far as I can see they only offer Roon Bridge installations that layer on top of full Windows, Mac, or Linux OS. https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/linux-install#Overview

Installing any kind of streaming on top of a general-purpose computing environment degrades the sound.

Ropieee has no system processes or CPU overhead taken up by having a full Linux package running. Same for Roon Rock. There's nothing in those OS environments competing for clock cycles and timing with the audio stream.

If Roon offered Roon Bridge as package I could flash onto the NUC using Etcher as with Roon Rock or Ropieee on a Pi-based box, I would definitely give it try. However, a NUC is still a very noisy device. This secondary system does not have a May DAC, so clean USB will have much more of an effect on it.

[jpm]

Pro-Ject offer the Stream Box S2 Ultra but it's $849 new. The SotM sounds like it meets your criteria though.

[newzooreview]

Thanks. The ProJect box looks to be in the price range of the Sonore UltraRendu. It would be interesting to compare them, but both are a bit more than I would spend on the secondary system.

As a complete aside, the ProJect website provides no mechanism to purchase the Stream Box. They just have a "Find A Dealer" page. The "dealer" in my area does not have these, has never used these, and would just place an order on my behalf. I would have to drive there and pick it up instead of just having it shipped to my house. If there is any question about its operation, I would either figure it out myself or play a game of telephone, having the "dealer" contact ProJect and convey their reply. To me, this antiquated approach just places barriers in my path. I respect the real audio shops where they still exist, but 90% of the companies pushing you to work via a "dealer" are just losing sales and frustrating customers.

If the "dealer" does not have the item on hand to lend to you to try at home or at least to demo in their store, and if they are significantly less knowledgable than someone who spends 20 minutes online, then they are a liability to your business, not an asset.

[Rusty Jefferson]

.....Installing any kind of streaming on top of a general-purpose computing environment degrades the sound....

Yeah, that's what we thought too. My friend discussed it with one of the Roon developers at an AES meeting recently. The developer had previously encouraged my friend to move from his NUC/LPS to a Nucleus which he did (subjective improvement), and then while talking at this AES meeting the developer suggested using the bridge, which also made a surprisingly good improvement even though he's just taking the USB out from the motherboard of the bridge (not a JCAT or SOTM card). He then shared that link from the Roon recommendations page. If you have a Pi or other suitable device you can load the bridge software on, it's worth a listen in your main system.

For those who aren't following this discussion I posted this link in another thread the OP started.
https://help.roonlabs.com/portal/en/kb/articles/sound-quality#Rule_1_Core_and_Output_on_separate_devices

[mitch stl]

Just a comment on the Raspberry Pi option -- I'm surprised at your "USB is noisy" comment. I have an RPI 4B in my main system which runs USB out into a Schiit multibit DAC in a Lyr 3 preamp. It is dead quiet and, to me, sounds as good as any other player I've heard.  The only USB issue with RPIs I've heard about was with the 3B models in which the USB bus was shared with the ethernet connection, and thus could cause issues.  So the 3B model works best with a DAC HAT or digital HAT for for COAX/SPDIF output. (I have a RPi 3B with a Hifiberry DAC2HD HAT in my second system that works very nicely.)  However, the 4B model works perfectly for me using the USB connection to the DAC.

[newzooreview]

Yes, that makes sense. I mean that the USB output on a Raspberry Pi is electrically noisy.

USB audio is carried as an analog signal. Ideally, it is an analog square wave, but that ideal is rarely achieved. The USB receiver in the DAC has to assign 0s and 1s based on the peaks and troughs in the square wave, but electrical noise and cable quality and length can introduce errors in that analog square wave. In addition, the USB cable has a 5v line separate from the analog signal lines. Noisy power on that 5v line can get into the DAC and cause its own set of problems.

It's not a question of "this sounds noisy" or "this sounds bad." It's just that when you hear a source where these issues are reduced, minimized, or all but absent, then you appreciate the benefits of the better USB streamer.

This is just my experience. In moving to a Roon setup, I tried a Raspberry Pi4, an Allo DigiOne Signature, an SoTM SMS200Ultra, an Auralic Aries G2.1, a Denafrips Gaia, and the Allo USB Signature that I fried a couple of days ago. Everything I tried sounded better than the plain Raspberry Pi4, which is not to say that one could not enjoy a system based on the Raspberry Pi4. It's just that it's a capable starting point rather than an optimal solution. For about $100 more the Allo USB Signature sounded better, for example.

Thanks to the suggestion above, I purchased a used Sonore MicroRendu from US AudioMart. It was $275, which is in the price range of the unavailable Allo USB Signature. I will be curious to see how it sounds. I have an Uptone Audio Ultracap power supply on hand, so I should be able to give it very clean power.

Thanks again to everyone for their insight and suggestions.