[Dunedain]

Just curious, do you expect those speakers to actually deliver more realistic sound than the RMX's?

[zybar]

Just curious, do you expect those speakers to actually deliver more realistic sound than the RMX's?

No he expects them to suck and be a terrible waste of money.

What kind of stupid ass question is that?  

George

[ekovalsky]

Just curious, do you expect those speakers to actually deliver more realistic sound than the RMX's?

No he expects them to suck and be a terrible waste of money.

What kind of stupid ass question is that?  

George

George you took the words right out of my mouth

Love the new avatar too.

 

[Bingenito]

No he expects them to suck and be a terrible waste of money.

What kind of stupid ass question is that?

That is awesome

The new avatar has got you fired up. I love it

[James Romeyn]

Just curious, do you expect those speakers to actually deliver more realistic sound than the RMX's?

It seems reasonable to expect a speaker costing 10x more, by a long-respected high-end designer, has a decent chance or more of outperforming the lower-priced RMX.  The Nola's architecture has no obvious defects.  Not much left to wonder about except maybe the room/speaker interface.

My 2c.

[Tweaker]

Everyone knows that the more you spend on speakers,amps,cable, etc., the better the sound. The  law of diminishing returns does not apply to high end stereo. They will most certainly sound at least 10x better.

[James Romeyn]

Everyone knows that the more you spend on speakers,amps,cable, etc., the better the sound. The  law of diminishing returns does not apply to high end stereo. They will most certainly sound at least 10x better.

Have you heard both speakers set up properly?  Doubtful considering how few exist of each model.  I don't know if readers are supposed to take your post literally.  My hunch is (not saying "most certainly") Eric will state the new speakers sound less than 10x better.  

To make a comparison in the autombile world, huge increases in power are required for marginal increases in top speeds over 200mph.

[Rick Craig]

Just curious, do you expect those speakers to actually deliver more realistic sound than the RMX's?

It seems reasonable to expect a speaker costing 10x more, by a long-respected high-end designer, has a decent chance or more of outperforming the lower-priced RMX.  The Nola's architecture has no obvious defects.  Not much left to wonder about except maybe the room/speaker interface.

My 2c.

Actually it does have some obvious defects - can anyone guess what they are? Not to knock Eric's decision, but I think the design has some real flaws.

[zybar]

Have you heard both speakers set up properly?  Doubtful considering how few exist of each model.  I don't know if readers are supposed to take your post literally.  My hunch is (not saying "most certainly") Eric will state the new speakers sound less than 10x better.  

To make a comparison in the autombile world, huge increases in power are required for marginal increases in top speeds over 200mph.

Jim,

I assumed he was kidding and not trying to lead the topic down that rathole.

We all know if you spend "x" amount more that it doesn't necessarily improve the sound by "x".  

Hopefully Eric and his family will truly enjoy the speakers and the purchase  will be worth it to him.  Outside of that, nothing else really matters.

George

[James Romeyn]

Just curious, do you expect those speakers to actually deliver more realistic sound than the RMX's?

It seems reasonable to expect a speaker costing 10x more, by a long-respected high-end designer, has a decent chance or more of outperforming the lower-priced RMX.  The Nola's architecture has no obvious defects.  Not much left to wonder about except maybe the room/speaker interface.

My 2c.

Actually it does have some obvious defects - can ...

I knew I shouldn't have posted that!  "Defects" beyond cost & size: crossover related?  Or lobing or some disparity caused by conflicting driver layouts?  My best guesses.

[Dunedain]

Actually, that isn't a stupid question.  Some people prefer a certain type of "sound" that specific kinds of speakers
produce, even if it's not technically as precise in producing as accurate a sound reproduction as the speakers
it's replacing.  This may or may not be the case with these new speakers he wants to get, which is why I asked.

As far as the cost, we know all too well that vastly higher cost doesn't mean the speakers produce more accurate
and realistic sound.  VMPS owners above all others should know that.  What were the costs of some of the "high-end"
speakers that the RM40's and RMX's beat in sound quality at CES?  haha  

[Tweaker]

Yes, people, I was kidding. Well, sort of.

[Rick Craig]

I knew I shouldn't have posted that!  "Defects" beyond cost & size: crossover related?  Or lobing or some disparity caused by conflicting driver layouts?  My best guesses.

I'll answer but hopefully this will provoke some thought and not anger  
These are things I first noticed when Eric posted but I refrained from saying anything. I hate to see anyone waste their money when there are better alternatives that cost less. This is not an attempt to promote my business but to educate. I'm sure there are a few that don't believe me but I assure you that there is no alterior motive.

The primary issues are with the design format and not the drivers themselves. All of the drivers will provide good to excellent performance but I would expect a better midbass for something that costs this much.

The main issue is that the midbass and woofer lines are too short to integrate properly with the 8" drivers. The line is too short to be a line array and too long to be a point source. This creates power response issues and the vertical coverage will be compromised. The small ribbons will also have more interference problems than longer ribbons plus they won't cross low enough to integrate properly with the 5.5" midbass drivers. If the midbasses are crossed higher then the comb filtering effects will be even worse.

Dipole midrange sections are very difficult to implement with a passive crossover. The optimal solution would be to use an active crosover, especially one with parametric equalization via DSP (DEQX,etc). With the woofers above the midbasses I think the structural integrity would be very difficult to maintain but this is a design tradeoff to keep everything symetrical. The woofer towers are overkill and driving a 1 ohm impedance isn't fun for all but a very few amplifiers. Two 12" drivers per side would be fine for this system and give you plenty of output and bass extension.

The bottom line is that for $126K you should expect more. A used pair at 20-25% of MSRP IMO is still a poor value but it's Eric's money and if he's happy with this system then that's what counts.

[James Romeyn]

I've spoken with Rick many times.  I believe he is a stand up guy, & to me Rick's post above appears to be purely his attempt to share his professional speaker design opinions, & is in no way a self promotion.  Rick's approach to speaker design & marketing appears to be diametrically opposed to boutique brands like Alon/Nola, meaning his average customer is different, & hence he is not fishing from the same pond.

As per my most recent post, & in contrast to the one wherein I posited the Nola had no obvious defect: I remember now, upon my first look, that the mid-tweeter arrays appeared to lie somewhere beween the classic line array & point source architectures.  But reading about the speaker's size, finish & features soon overwhelmed me.

[ekovalsky]

Well, flawed or not, I sure liked them.  Harry Pearson, Mike Grellman, and Art Pfeffer seemed to like them too since they chose them for their personal reference system.  

Guess we should have all purchased Selah speakers instead

[ekovalsky]

Tomorrow is the day.  Pilot Air is coming with 1677 lbs of Alon speakers.  Of course this is a few days after my two NFL buddies (who were eager to help uncrate them) head off for mini-camp.  If there are any strong Phoenix-area Audiocircle lurkers who want some exercise this weekend, shoot me a PM ...

Too bad Casler doesn't live here, he could do all the work himself while I sit back enjoying a brewski  

[cbartolomei]

I've heard Grellman's- they sounded great.  Eric, I am so jealous.

[ekovalsky]

I've heard Grellman's- they sounded great.  Eric, I am so jealous.

cbartolomei, do these look familiar ?



Mike Grellman's are now mine     I'm really glad he's friends with Andy Payor and got a sweet package deal on a Sirius III and Rockport Hyperions, otherwise he'd never have sold these.

What a great workout I got today uncrating these bad boys by myself.  I'm sore all over.  They're in near perfect condition and I cannot wait to introduce them into my system.  Alas, they will be parked in the garage for another week or so while getting profesionally refinished.  Since I'm off work for the next nine days, I may move my gear into the garage to make some measurements and get a quick listen.  I'm going to wait to attach the bases until they are relocated into the media room.  

PS -- I have to give a plug here for Pilot Air.  Their "economy" service was impressive: fast, reasonably priced, and no damage.  Residential delivery at both ends was hassle free (or nearly so given the weight and size of this shipment) as their trucks thankfully came with a lift gate and pallet jack.

[CornellAlum]

Wow is all I can say.  Of course, for that price they should come with, well, a house

[meilankev]

Eric,

Wow!!!  Those things look great!!!  I have some like that, but mine are different colors.  We use them in our garage also, as they frame the areas around where the cars park.  It gives you something comfortable to walk on instead of bare concrete.

But yours are much cooler - they're actually pink!!!  It looks like they do a good job of supporting those big wooden box thingies with no problem.  You definitely made a good choice.

 
Kevin