6Moons M-H2O Signature Review

muralman1 · « **on:** 22 Apr 2005, 03:05 am »

By Strajan Ebaen

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/h2o/m250.html

wshuff · « **Reply #1 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 03:08 am »

Quote

Did I mention that Henry's reference speakers are Apogee Scintillas? We're talking power supply erections of Herculean proportions.

Did he mean that?

muralman1 · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 03:18 am »

Well..... Yes.......

Henry's reference spears are Scintillas, and the H2O can drive them, with elegance, from easy listening, to Rolling Stones at full cry.

wshuff · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 03:22 am »

It was the Herculean erection that got my attention. If these amps can do that, then we may start seeing the commercials. "When the moment is right ..."

muralman1 · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 03:29 am »

Yeah, the double entendre was laid on a bit thick....... He wanted to drive his point home...

Jeesh.... enough already.

Occam · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 03:29 am »

Any designer who's ps incorporates a goodly sized #26 toroid (for conditioning, that yellow and white donut) has my respect.....

wshuff · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 03:34 am »

muralman1 · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 01:58 pm »

Funny, yes, but please don't loose sight of the fact, this is a serious read. Some people thought I was blowing hot air over the H2O. If you read, you will see it pitted against the PSA Evo, and the JJaz.

wshuff · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 02:00 pm »

Oh, I read it and I was very impressed. Wish I had the moolah to give one a try. Or two. I saw on the website that there is also a stereo model, so I guess I could get by with one.

zybar · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 02:30 pm »

Quote from: muralman1

Funny, yes, but please don't loose sight of the fact, this is a serious read. Some people thought I was blowing hot air over the H2O. If you read, you will see it pitted against the PSA Evo, and the JJaz.

I am still waiting to see in a review the improvements of the Signature over the stock version.

I have listened to the stereo amp multiple times and have not been that impressed.

I certainly didn't hear what Srajan describes...

George

muralman1 · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 02:53 pm »

George, I know of two occasions the H2O appeared at NY raves. Once was with a passive preamp. That is a synergy no no with the H2O. The other with a TacT preamp that was calibrated to a McCormack DNA. A serious TacT geek told me that is a recipe for sonic disarray.

There are people who have replaced very fine solid state and tube amps with the S-H2O.

The S-H2O is not going to be everybody's cup of tea. It just boils down to a matter of opinion. I prefer the M-250 Signature, the one reviewed.

JoshK · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 03:10 pm »

Quote from: muralman1

The other with a TacT preamp that was calibrated to a McCormack DNA. A serious TacT geek told me that is a recipe for sonic disarray..

I am not a TACT owner but I seriously don't get this statement. The amp in the signal change should have very little, if any, impact on the TACT's 'calibration'. The H20's may indeed be a synergy mismatch with a TACT 2.2x but I see having the TACT 'calibrated to a McCormack DNA' to have very little to moot George's experience.

zybar · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 03:13 pm »

Quote from: muralman1

George, I know of two occasions the H2O appeared at NY raves. Once was with a passive preamp. That is a synergy no no with the H2O. The other with a TacT preamp that was calibrated to a McCormack DNA. A serious TacT geek told me that is a recipe for sonic disarray.

There are people who have replaced very fine solid state and tube amps with the S-H2O.

The S-H2O is not going to be everybody's cup of tea. It just boils down to a matter of opinion. I prefer the M-250 Signature, the one reviewed.

Since both times were at my house, with my gear, I think I am qualified to respond...

I was told that the amp would work quite well with the Bent NOH transformer based passive preamp. Other amps with an impedance as low as 7k worked - why not the H20? Why was I told it would work?

The TacT was not configured for the McCormack. Measurements were taken for the speaker and used for both amps. Not sure I would call myself a TacT geek, but having owned one for quite some time now, I can tell you that it isn't a receipe for sonic disarray.

Look not every amp is for every person...I honestly just want to know what improvements to expect going to the Signature version. I think I have already clearly established my thoughts on the regular stereo version.

George

muralman1 · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 03:35 pm »

George, I have been present at the insertion of one amp over another in a TacT system without redoing the curves. It was not good. The H2O is way different than a McCormack. So is the Butler.

There are a growing number of S-H2O buyers that auditioned it at home in direct comparison to great solid state, and tube amps. I can think of only one send back.

The H2O Signature has been out for as long as the S-H2O, and the M-H2O. The Sig monos are $1500 more expensive than the regular monos. A lot goes into making the Sig. The sound is different.

I believe there is a duo mono stereo version in the works. I know of two prototypes that have been shipped. Maybe that will better suit your liking.

Are you going to the HE show in NY? The H2O Sig will be there powering Greek ribbon speakers. H2O designer Henry will be there.

Vince

JoshK · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 04:05 pm »

Vince if that is true about the 'curves' for the different amps then the owner doesn't know how to use the TACT, simple as that.

zybar · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 06:06 pm »

Quote from: JoshK

Vince if that is true about the 'curves' for the different amps then the owner doesn't know how to use the TACT, simple as that.

Agreed.

I have spent more time than I would like to admit in the TacT forums and this has never been even hinted at.

Vince, your source is just plain wrong and doesn't match my own experience.

George

muralman1 · « **Reply #16 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 06:39 pm »

my source has been notified, and is preparing a war brief.

The reason I am perplexed about your listening experience, is because my system has moved through tubes, and then better solid state. My last solid state was the lofty Pass X600.

The first ICE amp I heard, the eAR MKII, floored me, it was so revolutionarily better in my system, than anything else I had before. The H2O prototype that moved through my place was even better than the eAR. Not just different, but better. I haven't heard the S-H2O. I can't vouch for it, but it must be the prototype's superior.

No matter, the review is about the M-H2O Signature monos, my amps, they fit Strajan's review.

Here is the last paragraph of his review:

"To close the circle and return to my opening statement about stripes, spots and tubes, my personal exploration into high-power solid-state amps which a tube fool like yours truly could love has netted its first rock-solid candidate: the H2O M250 Signatures. To these ears, they are an unqualified slam dunk. Taking their designer's word that they drive his infamous Apogee Scintillas to perfection, monster brawn here doesn't translate into audible monster behavior. Herculean strength only asserts itself when the occasion warrants and then not in the experience but below it as facilitator. This experience isn't better than tubes. Neither is it not as good. It is a parallel experience with significant overlap in -- get this -- the vocal range. Liquidity without texture. In toto, it's a presentation that stands fully on its own, makes absolutely no excuses and liberates even a tube fanatic from constantly looking over his shoulder. Small chip weds Goliath power supply and they live happily ever after? You may not believe it as yet but I do. This fairy tale is as true as they come. Bravo, Henry Ho! "

Mad DOg · « **Reply #17 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 06:48 pm »

Quote from: zybar

I certainly didn't hear what Srajan describes...

George

i generally find that my experiences w/ the same products are VERY different from Srajan's. hence i have concluded that we definitely have different preferences and ears. that's why you just have to get it in your own room and your own system to really know if you'll like it.

muralman1 · « **Reply #18 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 07:21 pm »

George, as I had promised:

"Vince, I have had my 2.2X since June 2002. I was a very early adopter. I and the die-hards on the T users forum would never dream of auditioning a new amp without doing a new measurement. True the room and speakers will predominantly determine what the measurement looks like but the amp also has an influence. I have noticed it on every amp I have measured including the demo stereo H2O and my TacT S2150 amp.

The H20 is an especially powerful amp and will give a different measurement level than some other amps. The measurement level will not be a consistent +/- dBs for all frequencies. Bass measurements tend to vary the most. Some amps have more power and some just have less control so it seems like more power. The T software takes the measurement curve and calculates correction filters to approach* the target curve that is selected.

Two amps will have different measurement curves and therefore the correction filters needed to approach the target curve will also be different. Swapping amps without doing a new measurement will give you music but it will not be optimized by any degree and not a valid test method for comparison. It is just sloppy and lazy. The fact that the H2O allegedly got its' butt kicked speaks for the faulty methods used. There is room for personal taste and perhaps the preamp or power cord was not correct but I have never heard an H2O ever have to apologize for anything.

When I was in my friend's wedding we each had our tuxedos fitted to us. I can't wear his and he can't wear mine. Well, actually we could but it would not look pretty comical. The same with correction filters. They must be tailored to the amp that will wear them. Correction filters are not all created equal. They are unique to the room and equipment. That is all equipment downstream of the RCS. Sources and their ICs/PCs are not part of the measurement process. Some T users measure every time they change a downstream wire. I have not noticed much change in the measurement with wire. Mostly the nuances do not show up on a measurement. So that is where I get sloppy and lazy. I do not measure for wire but I would never dream of swapping amps without doing a full measurement.

Hope that explains it for you."

muralman1 · « **Reply #19 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 07:29 pm »

Mad Dog, generally good advice. The H2O is a special case. It is ultra sensitive to power cords, front ends, and preamps. I would prefer someone come over to my well honed system to listen to my H2O Signatures, rather than take the amps with me elsewhere, where the amps will magnify unfriendly components.

Have you read any owner reviews? Check out audiofankj's H2O review on Audiogon. What professional reviewer do you feel comfortable with? There are a lot of reviewers itchy to get their hands on these amps.

Vince