First Look at the new Adapt Line

8thnerve · « **on:** 21 Apr 2005, 08:17 pm »

Here is a first look at the new Adapt line of products. The website overhaul should be done in around a week.

http://www.audiocircle.com/image.php?id=5090">

Check the gallery for more pictures.

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?action=gallery;area=browse;album=547

tbabb · « **Reply #1 on:** 21 Apr 2005, 09:01 pm »

I like them... much more appealing than the response line. Sign me up. Nice job on the brackets too.

Could you summerize the sound differences that would be heard in say this room between the old line and the new line?

How about a hint at the pricing or is that still being determined?

Tim

klh · « **Reply #2 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 12:00 am »

What will you have to address first reflection points?

klh · « **Reply #3 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 12:04 am »

Sorry, typed too quick to keep up... but they look absolutely gorgeous

NealH · « **Reply #4 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 12:38 am »

What are they suppose to do? They look like ornamental trim.

Tuning a room will require much more than these little things will provide.

KJ · « **Reply #5 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 02:21 am »

Quote from: rnhood

What are they suppose to do? They look like ornamental trim.

Tuning a room will require much more than these little things will provide.

Sounds like they do quite a bit. Read the latest review to get an idea of the impact. The 2nd page references the new line.

-KJ

zybar · « **Reply #6 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 03:08 am »

I have to admit I am pretty skeptical on the performance across the entire audio spectrum.

So far, my experiences have shown that there is no substitute for size.

Assuming that holds true (if doesn't, please provide a technical explaination how you are getting around this), these just don't seem big enough to have any type of meaningful impact in the lower frequencies.

George

8thnerve · « **Reply #7 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 02:38 pm »

Quote from: tbabb

I like them... much more appealing than the response line. Sign me up. Nice job on the brackets too.

Could you summerize the sound differences that would be heard in say this room between the old line and the new line?

How about a hint at the pricing or is that still being determined?

Tim

The differences amount to a lot more of everything. By reducing more of the corner distortion we increase our improvement of soundstage size, depth and specificity, tonal accuracy, dynamics, and clarity. In your room, you will actually make your frequency response more level, meaning that your peaks will be reduced and your troughs or dips will be increased. This is because we are reducing the distortion that causes these anomolies in the first place.

A few local customers who have late prototypes are surprising me with downright raves about the improvement of the new products in comparison with the Response line.

The pricing is $150 for the Rectangular panel, and $100 for the Triangular panel.

8thnerve · « **Reply #8 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 02:43 pm »

Quote from: klh

What will you have to address first reflection points?

Nothing. We design products to treat corner distortion. You can use any other products for first reflections if you wish, but I think the penalty of an unbalanced frequency response due to the effective absorption of only higher frequencies outweighs the minimal reduction in slightly delayed and lower energy second wave. You get a much more effective reduction of echo by treating the front corners which trap the return wave from the corner which is further delayed due to its increased distance and amplified by the horn shape of the corner. Most of our customers do not treat their first reflection points. YMMV.

8thnerve · « **Reply #9 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 03:04 pm »

Quote from: rnhood

What are they suppose to do? They look like ornamental trim.

Tuning a room will require much more than these little things will provide.

Thanks for your studied and open minded contribution.

Seriously though, our products are designed to treat corner distortion. Our research has shown us that corner distortion is primarily responsible for most of a room's sonic anomolies, and by treating just this distortion we are able to achieve much better results than any amount of absorption and diffusion can provide.

You are right to comment that these products should have little to no impact on any sonic attributes of any room based on the current accepted laws of architectural acoustics. Add to that the fact that there is NO absorptive material exposed to the interior room at all, and you would be even more convinced of your initial assumption. The fact is however, that these products, not only make an impact, they make a larger one than any other acoustic treatment to date.

A full installation of these products will eliminate echo, balance the frequency response, and reduce all manner of sonic anomolies that cause innacuracies in our playback chain. When sound moves into a corner, it is compressed by the shape and upon reaching the sharp angle at its apex, returns distorted in phase. Because it is then moving out from the corner which acts as an acoustic horn, this distorted sound wave is amplified back into the room. This distortion is primarily responsible for echo, and the phase anomolies result in frequency abberations as well as all the other problems that are a result of phase distortion; reduction of soundstage accuracy, harshness resulting in listener fatigue, etc.

This phenomenon is easy to observe. Stand with your mouth about 6 inches from the wall surface and say something. Now stand with your mouth 6 inches from a corner and say the same thing. The results are obvious and you can hear that your voice is undergoing radical changes on its return from the corner.

I am not suggesting that you take my word for it however. The hundreds of customers that have tried our products over the last three years have all had a 30-day money back guarantee. Only one customer returned the product, and without even installing it, due to the appearance. Our new Adapt line was designed with the appearance in mind as well, so that we can avoid that problem in the future.

8thnerve · « **Reply #10 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 03:14 pm »

Quote from: zybar

I have to admit I am pretty skeptical on the performance across the entire audio spectrum.

So far, my experiences have shown that there is no substitute for size.

Assuming that holds true (if doesn't, please provide a technical explaination how you are getting around this), these just don't seem big enough to have any type of meaningful impact in the lower frequencies.

George

There are obviously limitations at very low frequencies and no passive acoustic product can entirely address geometry based room modes. However, many anomolies in the mid to low bass region are caused by corner distortion, and by reducing the return wave you clear up the bass resulting in better bass deliniation and impact. The product uses 2 inch thick rigid high density fiberglass and has 48 inches of run surface, so it is relatively effective at frequencies below 100 Hz, but again, most of the benefit is due to the placement of the product, not by it's characteristics alone.

Users of our Response products have all enjoyed an improvement in the bass region to some extent, and those products, due to their size and material, are not nearly as effective as the Adapt products to effect meaningful change at the lower frequencies. In addition, the mounting system allows these new products to be suspended with more room from the wall surfaces. There have been many studies showing that lower frequencies can be affected more dramatically by having the absorptive surface away from the wall, and that helps in our case as well.

zybar · « **Reply #11 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 03:21 pm »

Quote from: 8thnerve

There are obviously limitations at very low frequencies and no passive acoustic product can entirely address geometry based room modes. However, many anomolies in the mid to low bass region are caused by corner distortion, and by reducing the return wave you clear up the bass resulting in better bass deliniation and impact. The product uses 2 inch thick rigid high density fiberglass and has 48 inches of run surface, so it is relatively effective at frequencies below 100 Hz, but again, most of the benefit ...

Thank you for the reply.

Are you going to publish any graphs?

What does relatively effective mean?

IS there a certain frequency I should be using other room treatments for in conjunction with this new line?

I am just trying to better understand where the product fits, so I can decide if I replace my roompack with the new line or possibly go in an alternate direction.

George

jcoat007 · « **Reply #12 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 06:08 pm »

You may have mentoned this already, but when will they be available?

Any other colors than black?

8thnerve · « **Reply #13 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 06:09 pm »

Quote from: zybar

Thank you for the reply.

Are you going to publish any graphs?

What does relatively effective mean?

IS there a certain frequency I should be using other room treatments for in conjunction with this new line?

I am just trying to better understand where the product fits, so I can decide if I replace my roompack with the new line or possibly go in an alternate direction.

George

George,

I will be publishing a few graphs, but they will not be attentuation graphs, but rather room response before and after treatment.

Relatively effective means that it will improve the room response at all frequencies above around 60 Hz, but that the level of improvement depends on the room, it's geometry, how much of the room corners are covered by the products, etc. The improvement above 80-100 Hz is excellent.

I don't think you need to use any other passive acoustic treatments, however to help with room modes; you should use an electrical solution like the Rives Audio PARC, or another similar phase coherant equalizer to reduce bass modes. As I said before, no current acoustic treatment makes an adequate difference for low level geometry based room modes, they are all a compromise. Even the big tube traps only lower the energy but do not address overhang and ringing to my satisfaction. I suggest the PARC or a similar device to address this issue. But if you decide to use something else to address room modes, it will not adversely affect the performance of the Eighth Nerve products. They provide a large improvement with any combination of other products.

I suggest of course that you upgrade to the new Adapt line. The improvements are not subtle.

8thnerve · « **Reply #14 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 08:05 pm »

Quote from: jcoat007

You may have mentoned this already, but when will they be available?

Any other colors than black?

Their full release will coincide with the release of the new website, in about a week. I have started shipping them however, so I have started taking orders.

They are also available in White. Also of note is that due to the design of the wooden frame structure, you can wrap these with any fabric you like and easily attach it with a staple gun. This allows you to customize the look however you would like, takes only a few minutes, and since you staple onto the back, looks completely professional when installed.

BradJudy · « **Reply #15 on:** 22 Apr 2005, 08:16 pm »

Quote from: 8thnerve

They are also available in White. Also of note is that due to the design of the wooden frame structure, you can wrap these with any fabric you like and easily attach it with a staple gun. This allows you to customize the look however you would like, takes only a few minutes, and since you staple onto the back, looks completely professional when installed.

Wouldn't some fabrics reflect sound more than others?

8thnerve · « **Reply #16 on:** 23 Apr 2005, 03:38 pm »

Quote from: BradJudy

Quote from: 8thnerve

They are also available in White. Also of note is that due to the design of the wooden frame structure, you can wrap these with any fabric you like and easily attach it with a staple gun. This allows you to customize the look however you would like, takes only a few minutes, and since you staple onto the back, looks completely professional when installed.

Wouldn't some fabrics reflect sound more than others?

Yes, but the impact is minimal. Remeber, the sound that we are really dealing with is the sound coming from the corner, and the more absorption there the better as we are trying to completely eliminate that wave. The reflective chracteristics of the front of the product will change slightly, but that is not nearly as relevent since we are dealing with many different surfaces in the room, and they will all reflect sound back slightly differently. The fact that they will be mostly reflective is enough. I do recommend a thinnner fabric though if you have the choice.

Bingenito · « **Reply #17 on:** 23 Apr 2005, 04:41 pm »

I like the look of the new product much better then the current line. When the new site is up will you have info on how the products mount to the wall?

If I provide a scaled drawing of my room in .jpg format can you advise the amount and placement of the products?

8thnerve · « **Reply #18 on:** 25 Apr 2005, 12:28 pm »

Quote from: Bingenito

I like the look of the new product much better then the current line. When the new site is up will you have info on how the products mount to the wall?

If I provide a scaled drawing of my room in .jpg format can you advise the amount and placement of the products?

Yes, I'll include a lot of photos of the products with details on the mounts. Also, I will have the installation instructions available in PDF format, so that you can see the procedure before you buy.

I would be happy to make a recommendation for you based on your pictures. Send them along to info@eighthnerve.com and I will respond quickly.

JCC · « **Reply #19 on:** 16 May 2005, 01:55 am »

Initial observations - Imaging, Soundstaging and Clarity were all improved. Actually, I couldn't believe the difference:

The Daedalus DA-1's were always outstanding, but I couldn't believe how much the room modes were holding them back. Nathan, thanks for the outstanding product.

I will post additional comments in a few weeks.