[Paolo Foggiato]

If you are so lucky to find a good condition couple of Cabasse Dinghy 221 you’ll have the chance to take off from the original poor cabinet and reuse one of the best large bande drivers you’d meet in your life.
The 221 was a very cheap French speakers in the 70’s.
I bought 2 pairs of its drivers on EBay at a very cheap price. You won’t believe me if I tell you that the drivers frame is in plastic (you read well: plastic) the cone is in paper and the suspension is in paper at the same.
The materials cannot be cheaper.
The sound is astonishing!!!
Fast, detailed with a mid and high cristal and extremely transparent.
The bass is light but you cannot imagine what happened when I put two drivers (one in the front and one in the rear of the speakers in a TQWT cabinet.
The bass came out clear and deep, fast and detailed as much as the rest of the range.
You just have to close the speakers in order to cross the drivers direction 50 cm  in front of  your nose.
Of course you cannot have the same classy sound of a Fostex or a Lowther but with just some coins you are able to enjoy an incredible performance.
the efficiency is very high (95 dB declared) so even a very low powered ampli is enough to drive them at the best (I use a 8 watts single ended Audio Note Oto)

[FullRangeMan]

I will move this topic to the Single Driver Circle.

[FullRangeMan]

Well, this FR driver looks a great speaker with the right materials.
These materials you mentioned are the best to the purpose of sound quality.

The best sound material for cones are paper, not plastics or aluminum, I have the Beyma 5MP60/N and his polypropylene cone delivery a plastic sound in many tracks and an alu cone will delivery a neutral sound at best.

Many great FR drivers use paper VC former that are light and delivery a very musical sound, but not heat resistant as the usual Kapton VC used in pro-audio woofers.

The best material for basket are brass, second Alu, after some plastics frames as used by MarkAudio.

Old-fashioned FR drivers use suspension in paper, accordion, fabric etc.
The Visaton B200 is a good example:
https://en.toutlehautparleur.com/fullrange-speaker-visaton-b-200-6-ohm-8-74-inch.html

[Paolo Foggiato]

Hallo boys !
This evening I’ve fitted my lab cabinet to the Tang Band W8-1772 to get a correct idea about its sound.

I have to say that I’m really satisfied. I’ve left the speaker (one only) for some ours with a cd under repeat.

Right after I took a brief audition with some of my references both in cd and, mainly,  in vinyl.

The voice is very nice both in women and men. I’ve felt a “comfortable” sound but it was important to hold the eyes a little bit lower the driver center in order to avoid the inevitable “papersound effect” of the large band drivers.

I have to say that , due to the not dedicated box” the mid to bass frequencies weren’t too much equilibrate.

I’m sure that the not tuned back horn loading caused this inconvenience.

By the way I have to say that the first audition made me very happy about the potential of these drivers.

In the next weeks I’ll have to take the decision about the cabinet I’ll build up.

There are mainly two types that I’m very curious to test. One is a TQWT and another one is a TLML.
The first one is a well known solution that I’ve already used with the Cabasse. The second have a great sponsor (Bob Brines) but, to be honest, till now I do not understand the working principles so I’d cannot tune it if I’d meet some problems.

I’ll keep you updated.

Paolo

[FullRangeMan]

If the Tangbang have a low Qts you could use the new frugalhorn from Planet10 for big drivers,   it have a new name.

[Paolo Foggiato]

They are very nice to look at.
Unluckily I have no much space as you can see and, moreover, there is “mein Fuhrer” at home that I don’t think will accept something like these…
All we male play the same game, my friend !

[JLM]

Bob Brines built my FTA-2000 floor standing single driver transmission lines (TL) 18 years ago, that I'm still using but my understanding is that Bob has retired from building speakers.  TL's are complex to design, Martin King developed a MathCad application (that Bob used) that finally took TL out of the trial and error stage.  But TL's are relatively big but superior to most other speaker design types.  My TL's use Fostex F200a drivers, very nice but no longer available, beefier and smoother compared to your Tang Bands. 

[planet10]

Given the continued searching for Bob’s ML-2000, Scott designed a similar box as replacement — Bonnyville.

Well done plastic baskets are very good and better than many cast Al baskets.

Do you have pictures of the driver itself?

dave

[FullRangeMan]

Hi Dave,
I waiting the new frugalhorn for large drivers, I forget the new name.
Do you know how is this project ?
It will fit 10 " drivers?

[planet10]

Joan,

Fits 8” drivers + the 6.5” MA.

Available now.

dave

[FullRangeMan]

Oh sorry it dont fit the 10'' drivers.

[versus rider]

If you are so lucky to find a good condition couple of Cabasse Dinghy 221 you’ll have the chance to take off from the original poor cabinet and reuse one of the best large bande drivers you’d meet in your life.
The 221 was a very cheap French speakers in the 70’s.
I bought 2 pairs of its drivers on EBay at a very cheap price. You won’t believe me if I tell you that the drivers frame is in plastic (you read well: plastic) the cone is in paper and the suspension is in paper at the same.
The materials cannot be cheaper.
The sound is astonishing!!!
Fast, detailed with a mid and high cristal and extremely transparent.
The bass is light but you cannot imagine what happened when I put two drivers (one in the front and one in the rear of the speakers in a TQWT cabinet.
The bass came out clear and deep, fast and detailed as much as the rest of the range.
You just have to close the speakers in order to cross the drivers direction 50 cm  in front of  your nose.
Of course you cannot have the same classy sound of a Fostex or a Lowther but with just some coins you are able to enjoy an incredible performance.
the efficiency is very high (95 dB declared) so even a very low powered ampli is enough to drive them at the best (I use a 8 watts single ended Audio Note Oto)

some audax driver frames are plastic.

[Paolo Foggiato]

In these last weeks I’ve tried to develop a good case for my TB 1772.
Starting from my lab cabinet I’ve checked what happened changing the solutions: reflex, TQWT, horn, and so on.
With my total disappointment I felt that the differences were just minimal. Too much for thinking to proceed on…
I cannot understand why the bass frequencies are so light and, whey they are just in line with expectations it’s clear to feel a large hole between the med/bass and the bass frequencies.
I’m going to loose my enthusiasm on this project.
I have much more satisfaction from the Cabasse old speakers. When I chandelier something, something else happens.
Good or bad isn’t important but a feedback can drive you to the correct way.
Blank or flat or inexisting feedbacks take off the neddle from your compass.
Any suggestions

[richidoo]

You must use a filter to compensate for "baffle step diffraction," which causes bass frequencies to roll off faster than higher frequencies.  Many DIY noobs neglect this necessary part of speaker design.

The Bob Brines plans for 1772 box include schematic for passive baffle step correction filter.

Read more about baffle step correction.
https://trueaudio.com/st_diff1.htm
http://diyaudioprojects.com/Technical/Baffle-Step-Correction-Circuit-Calculator/
https://www.t-linespeakers.org/tech/bafflestep/intro-bds.html
https://sound-au.com/bafflestep.htm
http://www.quarter-wave.com/General/BSC_Sizing.pdf

Another way to eliminate baffle step is to use a driver of similar size and sensitivity (usually same driver as front) on the rear of the box, aka bipolar speaker. This cancels baffle step diffraction.

Another way to eliminate baffle diffraction is to eliminate the baffle edge (infinite baffle) aka in-wall speaker. In-wall speakers have no baffle step correction filters so they sound weak bass away from the wall, just as a box speaker with baffle step correction sounds like too much bass when placed too close to a wall.

EDIT: When I built Brines 1772 speaker (with his baffle step filter) I found the bass to be well balanced and musical considering it's a single driver speaker. The only problem I had with the speaker was the beaming of the high frequencies.

[planet10]

The W8-1772 has a rising response, you are taming that, not really adding baffle step.

dave

[Paolo Foggiato]

Thank you guys !
I don't have enough experience to do too many useful experiments, so I'll try to decide following your suggestions.
The Brines project that I own today thanks to an enthusiast whom I thank very much.
It's not easy to make but it's manageable for me.
I'll just have to decide whether to build them or choose the solution of buying a pair of speakers made by a well-known Italian professional with the Tang Band W8-1808 (Pic attached)

[Paolo Foggiato]

I definitely closed the Tang Band 1772 project… too much troubles.
I’ve sold them and my new question is :
can someone suggest a real good sounding project?
I’m not skilled and I take confidence that  someone could help me in making the correct choice
…. May be the classic Fostex design for the FE 108 ?

[Paolo Foggiato]

I hate the idea of an equalization circuit 
I’ve take the way of the large band speakers to avoid the xover…

[planet10]

can someone suggest a real good sounding project?

What kind of budget, room, kit?

Perhaps a Frugel-Horn? Or a Pensil?

…. May be the classic Fostex design for the FE 108 ?

Not a good choice. FE108e∑ is a glorious driver, with a seductive midrange. Not all that acuarate. Now discontinued.

dave

[Paolo Foggiato]

The room is about 4 meters x 4 meters
The budget is reasonably around 200 euros
No problem for difficult cabinet. I like towers (for example the one in the pic that uses Fostex 103)
But I’m wide open to any good idea!