"Scientific" testing of power cords

ctviggen · « **on:** 14 Apr 2005, 05:39 pm »

Since I'm a non-believer in power cords, what I'd like to do is perform the following "scientific" test:

I'll be blindfolded. A helper will randomly and unbeknownst to me select one power cord as being a "head" and another power cord as being a "tail." The helper will then flip a coin. Whatever comes up, the helper will attach that power cord to a selected device. I'll listen to a song. The helper will then flip the coin again and attach the "head" or "tail" power cord. I'll then listen to the same song. Note that if two heads or tails appear in a row, then the helper will have to pretend to switch cords. We'll continue this at least 5 times. During this process, I'll try to figure out which power cord makes the most benefit to the music. I'll dictate my thoughts to my helper. Everything else, including sound levels, will remain the same -- only the power cords for one device will be modified.

I'll continue this process for two different components -- preamp and amp. I'll use power cords from Signal Cable and Chris VH.

If I can tell whether the music is better from one power cord or another, then I should be able to choose the same power cord each time. In other words, if PCa is better than PCb, and PCa is randomly chosen 3 of 5 times, I should think that PCa is better 3 of 5 times. If I don't do this, then I can't really hear any differences.

Does this sound "scientific" enough? If not, what needs to be changed?

eric the red · « **Reply #1 on:** 14 Apr 2005, 05:54 pm »

Have your dog do the test instead. They have much better hearing.

Carlman · « **Reply #2 on:** 14 Apr 2005, 06:14 pm »

Sure... do blind testing on power cords... sounds like a really fun time.

Maybe after you're done you can watch grass grow.

I'm a non-believer also but I do like to have my system on a dedicated outlet... (which I'm installing tomorrow) If for no other reason, than to keep voltage regulated regardless of what else is being used in the house. Also using 12ga cable should be a slight improvement as well. I figured the $200 in labor and materials is well worth it compared to spending 200 (or more) on a single power cord.

If you'd like, I can send you a DIY cable or 2 to throw into the mix.. I have 2 varieties of Belden recipes and a Volex $8 pc. Just let me know.

-C

warnerwh · « **Reply #3 on:** 14 Apr 2005, 06:30 pm »

If you have 5 trials then I'm betting one of the cords will be 3 out of 5.

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #4 on:** 14 Apr 2005, 06:32 pm »

It should be an illuminating experience. I fully expect that at times you'll swear you hear differences even when the same cord is plugged in each time. IMOHO most of the cable "sounds" people think they hear is placebo effect. Your attempt as a scientific test should be great for your own purposes, but most people have their mind made up and can't be bothered with the facts.

nathanm · « **Reply #5 on:** 14 Apr 2005, 07:22 pm »

Your pre-test bias of "no difference" is likely to remain unchanged after the test and not necessarily because of what you hear but rather the fact that doing these tests is a lotta freakin' WORK!

Even informal tests with small numbers of people require lots of dilligent effort. My own trials with blind tests was helpful in that I learned that I could be fooled and that doing scientific tests is really boring! Heh! But if you can sit through your test and still want to do it again and again I will gladly salute you as a True Audiophile!

I don't remember where it was, but some fellas did that cable test with a whole panel of folks, something with a green curtain or something...anyway it looked like a HUGE undertaking and after all that rigamarole the result was NO BETTER THAN CHANCE. Hmmmm... I think you really have to enjoy the process more than the destination with that type of test IMO. You have to be a real Grass Watcher Enthusiast...have a subscription to Sod Seers Monthly, carry a grass caliper in your pocket and such...

WEEZ · « **Reply #6 on:** 14 Apr 2005, 07:24 pm »

Oh boy, here we go again

Seriously- yeah try it and report back. The results will likely result in frustration over listening really, really hard. The one you listen to last will probably sound the best 'cause the IEC connector will have been wiped good and clean after (5) changes.

WEEZ

eric the red · « **Reply #7 on:** 14 Apr 2005, 07:32 pm »

The higher the cord price, the better the sound. End of discussion

WEEZ · « **Reply #8 on:** 14 Apr 2005, 07:40 pm »

..yeah, that too..

John Casler · « **Reply #9 on:** 14 Apr 2005, 08:02 pm »

Be sure to select a CUT, that you are very familiar with. It should also be one that has "specific" identifiable properties that would demonstrate any "subtle" differences.

For example: DUENDE by Black Light Syndrome has some very fine sonics related to the guitar portions that, with a highly resolving system will present the delicacy of these sounds.

There is also significant "soundstaging"

Plus there is some very difficult "fuzzy" bass that in a good system will still sound fuzzy but with detail!!

If you become "VERY" familiar with these sonic properties, then you will (should) be able to hear if a cord or component provides "more" of them. less of them, or they are the same.

I would also suggest that you "bag" the blindfold, unless you listen that way regularly. Beleive it or not placing cloth, or even a pair of glasses in fron to the eyes and sinuses can change what you hear.

Just make sure and keep your eyes closed and you will hear as you always do.

You might also find that 5 trials is too small a sample. Generally after the second or third time, you will hear "greater detail" simply because the brain "fills in" information that you know is there.

It is kind like watching a movie the 2nd and 3rd (and so on) times, where you get more out of it after the first couple times.

You might need at least 8-10 switches to find differences (assuming there may be some)

Also it might be wise not to listen to the whole cut, but just the sections (30 sec - 1 minute) that provide you with the specific sonic details you are looking (listening) for. Also that way it won't take all day

Sounds like fun to me

Rob Babcock · « **Reply #10 on:** 14 Apr 2005, 08:04 pm »

I guess you and I have different ideas of fun, JC.

ctviggen · « **Reply #11 on:** 14 Apr 2005, 08:51 pm »

Well, I'm making this test because I've changed power cords on a bunch of my equipment and I honestly can't tell any difference, but I never sat down and tried to discern a difference. Yet, there are people here (and many other places) who swear that power cords make a huge difference. Many people even compare power cords and are seemingly able to determine sonic differences between the power cord. I'll limit my test to two power cords. I'd like to try to get rid of my biases and hear a difference, and I don't think this test should take that long -- how long will it take to play 5 songs? I'll choose a song I've heard a lot, that has good voices (probably female) and some nice instrumentation. The hardest part about the test is finding a helper.

Here's a guy who says he can tell the difference between old and new Bybees:

http://www.enjoythemusic.com/magazine/equipment/0702/bybee.htm

I really do want to believe that power cords make a difference, and I'd like to test this in a way where I don't just put in an $800 power cord and make my mind believe that there's differences because I want to believe thusly.

_scotty_ · « **Reply #12 on:** 14 Apr 2005, 10:37 pm »

ctviggen, I would suggest that you try to listen for differences in frequency
extension at both ends of the spectrum and look for improvement in total dynamics that the system exhibits. The other factor that must be considered
here is that people reporting improvements as a result of powercord changes have differing levels of system resolution and nonlinearities. All systems are not the same. To expect any reporting consistency regarding improvements
from powercords is unrealistic. If you do not detect any differences between the powercords when you do your testing I would say sell the expensive powercords and use the money to purchase music.
Scotty

eric the red · « **Reply #13 on:** 14 Apr 2005, 10:40 pm »

Then after doing your tests ala JohnC's suggestion, top your day off with a fun trip to the dentist for a root canal.

WEEZ · « **Reply #14 on:** 14 Apr 2005, 10:46 pm »

ctviggen,

I hope that if you hear a 'difference' ; that difference will be an improvement- not just a difference. Again, I await your findings. I try to keep an open mind- but......

You know- if someone spends $800 on even (3) power cords- that $800 could have bought an upgraded pre-amp; amp; source; or speakers. Seems like that would be a bigger improvement to me.

I'm done ranting.

Anxiously await the verdict!

WEEZ

eric the red · « **Reply #15 on:** 14 Apr 2005, 10:58 pm »

"I really do want to believe that power cords make a difference, and I'd like to test this in a way where I don't just put in an $800 power cord and make my mind believe that there's differences because I want to believe thusly."

Bob-Isn't your test already biased if you go into it wanting to believe you will hear a difference or am I reading your above statement incorrectly? Or is the test something you will do in order to trick your brain into hearing something it already believes to be totally opposite i.e. that there really are no sonic differences in different PCs? Plus if you've already made your own conclusions about hearing no differences, why would you take the test when the only people who are going to believe your results are those who take the same exact test themselves? I can't imagine someone who does not know you being able to set up your test exactly in their own room. It seems to me you've already decided that after market PCs make no discernable sonic differences in your room with your gear and are satisfied with that decision.

Ulas · « **Reply #16 on:** 14 Apr 2005, 11:17 pm »

Bob,
Have you given any thought to what your life will be like after your test? If you let it be known that you can’t hear a difference, you may be shunned by those audiophiles who claim to hear huge differences between power cords. On the other hand, if you do hear a significant difference and can easily identify which cord is which, you may turn into a power cord junkie who squanders all his money seeking the perfect power cord.