Help with really poor? setup please.

DaveWin88 · « **Reply #20 on:** 25 Oct 2022, 11:29 pm »

Quote from: toocool4 on 25 Oct 2022, 09:26 pm

Nice one, experimenting is the key. Enjoy

I do agree 100% TY

DaveWin88 · « **Reply #21 on:** 25 Oct 2022, 11:33 pm »

Quote from: VinceT on 25 Oct 2022, 09:28 pm

Looks great Dave

I have a couch in my room too, I have the couch legs on sliders and move it back when I do any critical listening. You could pull that couch back toward your hallway when things get serious. I would try maybe putting those subs each side of the amp between the speakers as well. You could also raise them up and decouple off the floor on some milk crates and keep playing around with placement. I am sure they will continue to sound better as you make your tweaks.

I just moved the subs parallel to the speakers, and the bass went south

You got me thinking that I do have the subs playing up around 50hz ish, so having them arrive at my ears the same time is probably a must. Just going to have to tweak the subs for the best sound. Thank you guys

jtcf · « **Reply #22 on:** 26 Oct 2022, 03:07 am »

Believe it or not, but often subs sound better if they fire in different directions. It helps get rid of standing waves and room modes. Try pointing one sideways and see what happens. Good luck with your tweaking!

DaveWin88 · « **Reply #23 on:** 26 Oct 2022, 01:08 pm »

jtcf they're both down firing.

VinceT · « **Reply #24 on:** 26 Oct 2022, 02:11 pm »

I also have down firing subs. I got mine off the floor witj some homemade risers. Then started moving them about room, half way into the room or actually more near field with good results, away from the walls. In Dave's case maybe just playing with the settings more, where they were against the wall must have had some peaks and valleys in the response.

DaveWin88 · « **Reply #25 on:** 26 Oct 2022, 05:53 pm »

OK guys. I'm going to try a session with the subs like this. You guys made a good point about the placement near the walls. I'm more concerned about preserving the bass quality out of the Spatials, and time arrival. I'll let you guys know what it sounds like

jtcf · « **Reply #26 on:** 27 Oct 2022, 02:43 am »

Sorry, I missed that they were down firing! If your cables are long enough don't hesitate to try them in other places. You'll hear it immediately when you find the right spots. Bass waves actually pass you by and bounce back again before you hear them. Crazy but true. Good luck and btw your set up looks great:-)

whydontumarryit · « **Reply #27 on:** 29 Oct 2022, 11:02 pm »

This
https://www.thesoundapprentice.com/2019/11/sumiko-speaker-placement-guide.html
could be helpful in setup if you are serious since the method takes considerable effort, personally I wouldn't do it.
The Harman/Toole multiple sub location recommendations point to a middle of the room against the wall opposing configuration.
I read that the rule of thirds for room dimensions is agreeable to OB type speakers so that may be worth a try. It's easy to know when you get there, it's all about a disconnect with critical listening. Every instrument is always in the correct place and has the right presence, the sound is effortless and makes no demands on your attention. This happens no matter the associated components or recording resolution.

DaveWin88 · « **Reply #28 on:** 30 Oct 2022, 02:06 pm »

Quote from: whydontumarryit on 29 Oct 2022, 11:02 pm

This
https://www.thesoundapprentice.com/2019/11/sumiko-speaker-placement-guide.html
could be helpful in setup if you are serious since the method takes considerable effort, personally I wouldn't do it.
The Harman/Toole multiple sub location recommendations point to a middle of the room against the wall opposing configuration.
I read that the rule of thirds for room dimensions is agreeable to OB type speakers so that may be worth a try. It's easy to know when you get there, it's all about a disconnect with critical listening. Every instrument is always in the correct place and has the right presence, the sound is effortless and makes no demands on your attention. This happens no matter the associated components or recording resolution.

I'm going to give this a good read over.

DaveWin88 · « **Reply #29 on:** 30 Oct 2022, 04:53 pm »

Well I have a host of other room related problems now that I'm in this configuration. The front wall is giving me fits. Just covering up the window with a towel made a massive difference. Ordered a couple GIK 244's 24x48 bass traps. I'm glad they have a pretty big range of absorption. I don't believe bass is the only problem. I've since moved the subs back to the outside of the speakers.

dpatters · « **Reply #30 on:** 30 Oct 2022, 05:04 pm »

Personally I would have gone with GIK corner bass traps and ATS diffusers on the wall behind the speakers. I have found a combination of bass traps and diffusers work best in my room after years of experimentation. Once you get some acoustical treatments in place, then you can experiment with the subs placement. Best of luck.

Don P

DaveWin88 · « **Reply #31 on:** 30 Oct 2022, 05:50 pm »

Don I'm just grabbing at straws right now

Just the towel over the window was a very shocking improvement. Probably makeshift something towelish that I can hang and remove easy. I think the 244's will be an OK start. Stupid open baffle speakers haha. I bought this the other day. Maybe I'll try and play with this, even though I'll be in the dark mostly on how to use it effectively. Oh for shits and giggles, I cut down the Rel cables from 30 feet to 10.

whydontumarryit · « **Reply #32 on:** 30 Oct 2022, 08:55 pm »

Isn't setup first without the subs less complicated? Considering the wildly diverse impressions of your dfferent setups in that room are you sure that both speakers are a reasonable match to each other to maintain coherence. I assume everything is in phase.

I hope it isn't just a matter of turning your 'cable risers' upside down to eliminate that bowl resonance.

Roxul Safe n Sound 2x4x4” draped in 2 pillow cases. Cheap and effective above 200 hz. In the meantime, til the real stuff shows up.

DaveWin88 · « **Reply #33 on:** 30 Oct 2022, 09:46 pm »

Isn't setup first without the subs less complicated? Dude that makes to much sense. Yeah I need to take a step back and take one thing at a time. I just bought a towel that will cover 95% of the window. Those Silversmith cables are a pia to keep off the floor

. Thank you for the tip on the Roxul Safe n Sound 2x4x4.

DaveWin88 · « **Reply #34 on:** 31 Oct 2022, 02:14 am »

OK guys. Taking what you've said, I took a step back, and by dumb luck I figured it out for the most part. When I reconfigured the room, in doing so I boxed it in and added a few elements that basically over damped the room. I've since removed the papasan chair. I had some stupid ceiling tiles from the basement. I removed a couple behind me, and it totally opened up the entire presentation. The sense of ambience returned. These speakers are very very forgiving on the room so doing what I thought was best just made it worse. But I was just doing some listening, and I'm back in business pretty much. So yeah less is more. I'm telling you, open baffle speakers in an over damped room, sounds like a Victrola

Plus the right speaker, the tweeter is shooting much further away (behind me) than the left one, so I turned down the gain on the left speaker at the amp, and it's pretty balanced soundstage now.

whydontumarryit · « **Reply #35 on:** 2 Nov 2022, 04:35 am »

I forgot to ask. Are telling us what is happening while listening to vinyl only?

DaveWin88 · « **Reply #36 on:** 2 Nov 2022, 07:31 pm »

Quote from: whydontumarryit on 2 Nov 2022, 04:35 am

I forgot to ask. Are telling us what is happening while listening to vinyl only?

CD also.

DaveWin88 · « **Reply #37 on:** 17 Nov 2022, 03:03 pm »

OK guys update to my setup. First I really took the time to measure and make it as even as I can. I put the speakers at the minimum distance 36" from the front wall to make better use of the space. I was watching a video of Jim Smith on (The Absolute Sound) YT channel, and have to agree with Jim's recommendation. Sitting too close you do get better? instrument separation, but in reality you would have to be very close almost on stage to get that level and it sounds unnatural. Sitting back does put everything in context. I received my Gik 244 bass traps. It took a couple weeks, so keep that in mind if you order any. They are free standing which is really nice. Been playing with ceiling tiles to no real avail

So as I was putting these in place I asked myself literally in my mind, would these be the ticket. Well guys I was pretty shocked at the improvement. Listening to some classical music on vinyl, I was surprised at how much clearer and the muddiness was gone. The upper frequency's seem to really benefit. I put Alfred Brendal Schubert piano music which I'm very familiar with and was really blown away. I have NEVER NEVER heard it sound this good. Nuance to the notes and the piano, you could hear the note getting struck. Every note was distinct and the air in between is killer I was so happy to say the least. All vinyl sounded clearer, better high's, great bass. I feel like the upper bass driver really shines. I sometime wonder if it was even contributing at all in the past. A good portion of the tweeter output that seem to bug me has diminished. I'm guessing that has to do the the mid bass driver contributing better in that area. All in all guys, the GIK traps worked wonders for me. Now I'm starting to hear what my system can really do. I'm very impressed to say the least. Thank you to all that reached out to help. btw the bass traps are even with the speakers, it just doesn't look like it from the angle of the photo's. Oh another thing. Vinyl is the shit

These albums are 45-60 years old (phillips mostly) wholly mackerel they sound amazing.

jtcf · « **Reply #38 on:** 17 Nov 2022, 04:17 pm »

That's great! Getting control of the bass waves improves the entire frequency spectrum. Enjoy!

DaveWin88 · « **Reply #39 on:** 17 Nov 2022, 04:24 pm »

Quote from: jtcf on 17 Nov 2022, 04:17 pm

That's great! Getting control of the bass waves improves the entire frequency spectrum. Enjoy!

Absolutely. The more I learn is that even a slight increase in one area of a frequency, bass, treble, mids can really change the balance of the whole presentation. You hear so much more into the recording than ever when things are evened out. Thank you man