[gnnett]

I enjoy my music system playing music and it is better than the TV speakers for movies.

BUT I do sometimes struggle with speech without the centre channel and would enjoy surround sound effects on some movies.

I have though about a sound bar, some of which will bluetooth, or wifi to rear surround speakers. This does mean that connecting to the great stereo and sub that I already have is not possible.

Short of a DIY cludge of an existing system, would it not make sense to have a centre channel only "soundbar" that provides either toslink, or bluetooth output to an existing 2 channel system and could also include its own set of wireless rear/surround sound speakers?

Kef have no interest, so the most likely outcome is either Devialet, or B&W do something that integrates with their existing speakers and this goes up for sale.






 
 

[WGH]

Finding a good center speaker takes a bit of trial and error. In a 5.1 setup, ALL the dialog is through the center speaker. A full range speaker in not required or recommended, the processor rolls off the bass at 80Hz - 100Hz so the speaker can handle loud peaks without any problem. If the roll off or speaker goes too low then male voices get chesty and intelligibility suffers.

Why not stay in the KEF family? The HTC8001 Center Channel Speaker looks well made and tonally should be a good match. A second pair of LSX for the rear speakers completes the setup. Note: don't cheap out on the center speaker, it is the most important speaker in a home theater. I tried, it didn't work out (twice) but now I'm set, throwing money at the problem solved it.

All-in-one Bluetooth 5.1 systems look cheaply made to me. I haven't explored everything available but they look like stuff you would find in a Best Buy, where value comes before quality.

Speaking of quality, you will never get it using Toslink, which is the problem you are having now. The sound is too compressed, you are getting low-res Dolby Digital or DTS Core. A surround processor that has eARC is needed to get the hi-res sound and dialog.

A processor like the Anthem AVM70 would do miracles for your home theater. You would need to run wires to the L & R & C speakers but this is a small price to pay for audio nirvana.

A rear LSX wireless speakers can be connected using a 1Mii B03 Long Range Bluetooth 5.0 Transmitter plugged into the rear speaker outputs on the Anthem.

Turn it all on for the first time and the heavens will open up and angels will be singing.

[artur9]

What are you using to "process" the sound?  Any decent receiver should allow you to go to 3.1 (L/C/R.subwoofer) and then you could add the other speakers later.

Assuming your TV is new enough to do eARC, IMO that's the path you should pursue.

I'm using the Russound X1-TX8 and receiver amps and receiver successfully on one of my TVs, just for the surrounds and subs.

[gnnett]

Finding a good center speaker takes a bit of trial and error. In a 5.1 setup, ALL the dialog is through the center speaker. A full range speaker in not required or recommended, the processor rolls off the bass at 80Hz - 100Hz so the speaker can handle loud peaks without any problem. If the roll off or speaker goes too low then male voices get chesty and intelligibility suffers.
Thanks WGH, yes this clearly explains what I am trying to address. As I said no hurry and yes will use this advice.

Why not stay in the KEF family? The HTC8001 Center Channel Speaker looks well made and tonally should be a good match. A second pair of LSX for the rear speakers completes the setup. Note: don't cheap out on the center speaker, it is the most important speaker in a home theater. I tried, it didn't work out (twice) but now I'm set, throwing money at the problem solved it.
I will have a look at this, however it does require a processor, that will be both bulky and I am trying to avoid getting 6 channels of amplification that will only be used for the center channel.

All-in-one Bluetooth 5.1 systems look cheaply made to me. I haven't explored everything available but they look like stuff you would find in a Best Buy, where value comes before quality.
This was one thought I had as it provides 5.1 without an external processor:


But it does mean the existing speakers are unused.

Speaking of quality, you will never get it using Toslink, which is the problem you are having now. The sound is too compressed, you are getting low-res Dolby Digital or DTS Core. A surround processor that has eARC is needed to get the hi-res sound and dialog.
I may have my terminology wrong here, optical digital input is only providing 2 channels to the LSX, so would not think it is "compressed". or am I missing something?

A processor like the Anthem AVM70 would do miracles for your home theater. You would need to run wires to the L & R & C speakers but this is a small price to pay for audio nirvana.

A rear LSX wireless speakers can be connected using a 1Mii B03 Long Range Bluetooth 5.0 Transmitter plugged into the rear speaker outputs on the Anthem.
With LSX front and rear and with the LSX II having HDMI ARC, I thought it might be an option, but still would require a processor that outputs analog, most likely 6 amplifier channels that are unused and a box bigger than the combined volume of 4 LSX's.

Turn it all on for the first time and the heavens will open up and angels will be singing.

I will take your advice and not go down the track of cheap wireless 5.1, but will also be trying to avoid a bells and whistles processor/receiver, to manage equipment count and footprint. Cheers Gn
 

[gnnett]

What are you using to "process" the sound?  Any decent receiver should allow you to go to 3.1 (L/C/R.subwoofer) and then you could add the other speakers later.

Assuming your TV is new enough to do eARC, IMO that's the path you should pursue.

I'm using the Russound X1-TX8 and receiver amps and receiver successfully on one of my TVs, just for the surrounds and subs.

The LSX's are active speakers and have preamp and streamer built in. What you describe is adding a receiver, most of which are pretty bulky and have amplifiers that will not be used with these active speakers, as they appear to be in your set up where you take line level output and transmit it wirelessly. I suppose I was looking for a good quality "wireless processor", that can then transmit wirelessly to the speakers. The X1-TX8, in combination with a "processor" is a potential first step though.
Thanks Gn

[Doublej]

The B&W Formation Series is the only wireless home theater solution I know of. You get what you get (Toslink out from the TV to the decoder built into the soundbar) with it.

If you chose to go the processor route with a wired center channel, I think you have no way of getting the signals wirelessly to the fronts, rears and sub without adding more hardware.

WGH, what's the difference between Toslink "low-res Dolby Digital" output and the decoding of Dolby Digital through an AV receiver/processor?

[Tyson]

You'd be better off selling the 2.1 setup and using the $$ to get a proper multichannel system. 

[JLM]

HT is a low priority for me (not much of a movie hound) tried going cheap/small on a center channel back when movies started emphasizing the center channel, it never worked well.  Before that folks tried doing what you're doing, a 2.1 setup.  In fact I bought a Rotel receiver 20+ years ago that was promoted as a 2.1 A/V receiver.  Finally when I needed a new TV ended up getting a bigger/matching center channel, a AV receiver with HDMI connectors, and a 4K disc player (had only a really cheap DVD player).  BTW I have a separate audio system in another room. 

[WGH]

A lot of info to unpack here.

3.1 or 5.1 sound will require a processor. The TV, streamer, DVD, Blu-ray players output a digital stream, you can do whatever you want with it. Right now the OP is using the stereo part of the stream. Add a processor and the other channels like the center can be accessed.

The wireless sub is working with LSX speakers like a stereo. A home theater processor has a LFE sub output that works hand in hand with the surround speakers. Typically the main and all the surround speakers frequency response is rolled off at 80 Hz and ALL low frequency is sent to the sub. There are two main reason for this: the speakers are relieved of low bass so they can go louder without strain and receivers can be designed to put out high power to all the channels without a massive power supply, and since the sub has it's own amp it can do what it is designed for.

gnnett's setup will be a hybrid without the LFE (low frequency effects) sub output. I had an Outlaw 7.1 processor and when it died I went looking for an affordable replacement. I didn't find one. All the processors (and receivers) I looked at had mixed owner reviews except one - Anthem. Yup, it's a big black box and not what gnnett is looking for. But it will work the best for what he wants to do. The Anthem ARC room correction alone is worth the price of admission. After room correction is applied the overall sound balance and clarity makes movies an immersive experience because the video and sound blend together seamlessly without one dominating the other.

Bluetooth bit depth is evolving and changing, I don't know the KEF wireless bit depth but anyway, the sound quality will be determined by what the TV is sending, if it sends the minimum then the sound will be real bad compared to HDMI, 264 kbps and 16 bit.

Bluetooth bit depth comparison chart. MP3 audio can be up to 320 kbps, so Bluetooth is worse sound quality than an MP3, it's no wonder you can't understand the dialog.



Coax and Toslink is a little better but Dolby Digital is still pretty bad



HDMI and it's companion eARC which allows the signal to go both ways between the TV and processor is the gold standard


The Music Room (TRM) is the only re-seller of used equipment I would buy from. They have great deals on processors. But before you buy make sure it has HDMI and eARC. Many people are dumping old processors from the Hi-Fi VRC and DVD days because they don't work with Blu-ray and multi-channel streaming because the digital inputs don't have the bandwidth.
https://tmraudio.com/


JLM put it perfectly: "... tried going cheap/small on a center channel back when movies started emphasizing the center channel, it never worked well."
A small cheap center speaker never worked well for me either. Try one, you might get lucky. Most dealers have a 30 day return policy.
But you are still going to need some sort of surround processor even if you use only 3 or 5 channels.

[Doublej]

Thanks for the detailed explanation WGH. The B&W Formation Series may not be as high quality and a wired 5.1 system but the Formation Bar (soundbar) will:

Your Formation Bar will automatically identify and decode Dolby Surround encoded material and create a surround sound experience. If a Formation Bass subwoofer is connected in the same Formation space as your Formation Bar it will switch automatically to a low frequency effects (LFE) role when Dolby Surround encoded material is identified.

However this solution is not inexpensive. $1300 for the sound bar plus $1200 for the subwoofer plus $1000 for the surrounds. One is at $3500 and still needs to add front speakers. It's not clear if the $1000/pair speakers can be used as front speakers too. The manual only mentions them as rear speakers. If they can be cannot be used as front speakers, then you likely need a pair of the $5000 Formation Duos.

[artur9]

I suppose I was looking for a good quality "wireless processor", that can then transmit wirelessly to the speakers. The X1-TX8, in combination with a "processor" is a potential first step though.
Thanks Gn

The Russound is a budget workaround until I can go WISA.  For you, it also has a digital Toslink input and output on the receivers that might be helpful.

There are two competing wireless HT standards: WISA and PlayFi.  PlayFi is led by DTS and doesn't have a lot of support, afaict.


With WISA you can get an eARC dongle that will then transmit to supported active, wireless speakers.  (I was thinking of going Piega for this, once funds permit.)
https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-theater/hands-on-with-wisa-wireless-home-theater/

Since I have great L/R (Janszen za2.1) and a vg center (totem tribe II), I am contemplating/planning on going the above route for the surrounds. 

Something like HDMI into my existing processor (or maybe a new one), analog to L/C/R and then WISA to others.

[gnnett]

You'd be better off selling the 2.1 setup and using the $$ to get a proper multichannel system.

Hi Tyson
Yes you are right to get the best home theater experience you are right. But then I guarantee I will get a far worse outcome for music.
So if that is my choice I will stick with what I have, enjoy my music and continue to live with a less than optimal HT experience. I do love my music. 

[gnnett]

Thank you all a rich vein of information and thoughts. Yes a dedicated music room is an option in the future and I now have a range of options to consider.
Cheers

Gn

[WGH]

WISA looks like a nice option towards a wireless surround setup. I would like to set up my brother with surround but running wires is not an option. Good thing he is happy with a soundbar.

I poked around a few websites and found out soundbars come with a mind boggling number of features or, in some cases, no features. Some don't have HDMI, some have eARC, some don't.
But one thing all don't have is RCA line out for L&R speakers. For a person who has good stereo speakers there is no way to add a powered center speaker for a 3.1 setup.

I'm always leery of "Best Of" sites but Popular Science has a good write up. "Wireless" is kind of a stretch because only woofers are wireless and the surrounds need wires but that is all that is available these days... except for JBL Bar 9.1 which has truly wireless surrounds. The surrounds work for 10 hours on rechargeable batteries but my experience with anything battery operated is the battery needs a charge just when you want to use it.

The Enclave CineHome PRO 5.1 has WISA and is 100% wireless.

Best wireless surround sound systems of 2022
https://www.popsci.com/reviews/best-wireless-surround-sound-systems/

The Nakamichi Shockwave looks killer for a plug-and-play system and is the only one that comes with two 10" subs plus all the speakers you need.
The website is so impressive it makes me want to buy a Shockwave.
https://www.nakamichi-usa.com/shockwafe-ultra-92-earc

The simple KEF could be used for streaming music and the bombastic surround could be used for movies. Both separate but each specialized for their task.